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  1. #16
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    2 Raptors in RAID0 on a PCI-E add-in controller with its own cpu and onboard cache would be the quickest IMO at a fairly sensible price(around $600 ). You just will not utilize the higher STR of more than 2 drives for gaming. This setup still won't be much quicker than a single drive.
    Last edited by tuskenraider; 08-08-2007 at 01:46 AM.

  2. #17
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    Overkill? Maybe.

    Overly huge waste of money? Absolutely.

    I just purchased two of Seagates new single platter, 250GB, 7200.10s (ST3250410AS). They are basically 250GB versions of the new 7200.11s and they blow my older raptors out of the water. They aren't quite as fast as the 150GB raptors, but they are very close and I paid $62.83 per drive.

    Right now the newest and fastest 7200 rpms drives coe very close to the newest raptors in overall performance. The next gen of 7200rpm drives are going to soundly beat raptor performance, for one-quarter the cost per GB.

  3. #18
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    I'm all for cheaper, better performing drives, but the phantom "Raptor beater" is still not here. Next gen of drives might be on par with it(at least STR wise), but far surpass it? Not a chance. It's seek times will never be matched by a 7200rpm drive. HDD technology just slowly progresses and will do the same in the future until a new technology takes over(i.e. hybrid drives).

  4. #19
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuskenraider View Post
    It's seek times will never be matched by a 7200rpm drive. HDD technology just slowly progresses and will do the same in the future until a new technology takes over(i.e. hybrid drives).
    Manufacturers could, if they wanted to, but the faster head servos in 7200 rpm drives, in which case they would have the same low seek times as raptors. Spindle speed is not a component of seek time, but it (latency) is the other main component of access time. With equal seek times, 7200 rpm models will still have slower access time, by about 1.2 ms.
    Last edited by BWM; 08-10-2007 at 05:16 PM.

  5. #20
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    Quote Originally Posted by BWM View Post
    Manufacturers could, if they wanted to, but the faster head servos in 7200 rpm drives, in which case they would have the same low seek times as raptors. Spindle speed is not a component of seek time, but it (latency) is the other main component of access time. With equal seek times, 7200 rpm models will still have slower access time, by about 1.2 ms.
    Well informative as always BWM and I'm aware of the difference, just used the wrong word(seek instead of access).

  6. #21
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    just wondering you are building a super kickass gaming machine with 8gb of ram, 2 8800 ultras, 6 raptors but u are using an am2 mobo thats little stupid,no ofence.

    comon put at least a q6600 and a water cooling kit that will make that rig a lot more atractive.
    about the raptors 2 raptors are enough why will u need 900 gb of super fast hd for less money u can buy 2 raptors (for gaming and OS) and one of the new wd caviar 750gb they perform really well so u will have more storage (little more than 1TB) for less money.

    using 8 gb of ddr2 is also a bad idea since in one year ddr3 will be standard

    why are u doing such a expensive rig with a lot less money u can get very good results, 4gb of ram, q6600 2 raptors 1 cavar 1 ultra is more than enough, just look at the guys who spend 1k or more in a quad sli set up today with that 1k i can buy a quad core, a 8800 gtx, an hr-03 plus (vga cooler) overclock the gtx to 630/1000 and get better performance

    just my opinion sorry for the bad english and hope this helps u

  7. #22
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuskenraider View Post
    I'm all for cheaper, better performing drives, but the phantom "Raptor beater" is still not here. Next gen of drives might be on par with it(at least STR wise), but far surpass it? Not a chance. It's seek times will never be matched by a 7200rpm drive. HDD technology just slowly progresses and will do the same in the future until a new technology takes over(i.e. hybrid drives).
    Current gen raptors have ~75GB platters. If I put 75GB or even ~150GB of data on my drive and make sure it's along the outter edge, I really doubt random access/seek times are going to be much different. Afterall, the heads only have to move over 30-60% of the platter on my drive to cover the same data and the same rotation of the platter covers much, much more on a 250GB platter. Access times are about a half to a third of what they were on my hitachi 7K250 or segate 7200.7(fast drives in their day) in real world use, and probably about 30% quicker than my old 37GB raptors.

    If someone with a recent raptor wants to compare real-world drive performance, I'm quite eager to see how these uptated 7200.10s stack up. My second drive is empty most of the time (I use it for video recording/encoding and quickly delete the original files) and I could test pretty much anything on it.
    Last edited by oralpain; 08-10-2007 at 11:42 PM.

  8. #23
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    You'll find those comparisons here. All done on my rigs. STR is notably higher, as is obvious. Access time is slightly slower due to normal NCQ overhead. I don't have one of the new 36 gig models yet but the benchmarks of it I've seen are no different than the two larger models.
    Last edited by BWM; 08-11-2007 at 12:01 AM.

  9. #24
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    Quote Originally Posted by oralpain View Post
    Access times are about a half to a third of what they were on my hitachi 7K250 or segate 7200.7(fast drives in their day) in real world use, and probably about 30% quicker than my old 37GB raptors.
    The old Raptor access times are the same as the new and they are still best. With what software did you verify 30% advantage over a Raptor?, because I know of no "real world" app to verify such a thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by oralpain View Post
    If someone with a recent raptor wants to compare real-world drive performance, I'm quite eager to see how these uptated 7200.10s stack up. My second drive is empty most of the time (I use it for video recording/encoding and quickly delete the original files) and I could test pretty much anything on it.
    Well without having both drives in the same rig, comparisons will be useless. As far as HD Tach scores are concerned, the new Seagates are about equal in STR and take almost double the time for random access, but of course that isn't real world testing.
    Last edited by tuskenraider; 08-11-2007 at 03:03 AM.

  10. #25
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuskenraider View Post
    The old Raptor access times are the same as the new and they are still best. With what software did you verify 30% advantage over a Raptor?, because I know of no "real world" app to verify such a thing.
    Well without having both drives in the same rig, comparisons will be useless. As far as HD Tach scores are concerned, the new Seagates are about equal in STR and take almost double the time for random access, but of course that isn't real world testing.
    Best access time "test" I have come up with is to burn 2 different DVD's (to two burners from the same HD). It's pretty easy to separate the men from the boys this way. I suppose that a similar test for delivering multiple data streams to different destinations could be worked out.

    Anyways, Raptors ALWAYS win this test hands down. Often delivering the data twice as fast as the competition that I've tried here.

  11. #26
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    Quote Originally Posted by edenruro View Post
    just wondering you are building a super kickass gaming machine with 8gb of ram, 2 8800 ultras, 6 raptors but u are using an am2 mobo thats little stupid,no ofence.

    comon put at least a q6600 and a water cooling kit that will make that rig a lot more atractive.
    about the raptors 2 raptors are enough why will u need 900 gb of super fast hd for less money u can buy 2 raptors (for gaming and OS) and one of the new wd caviar 750gb they perform really well so u will have more storage (little more than 1TB) for less money.

    using 8 gb of ddr2 is also a bad idea since in one year ddr3 will be standard

    why are u doing such a expensive rig with a lot less money u can get very good results, 4gb of ram, q6600 2 raptors 1 cavar 1 ultra is more than enough, just look at the guys who spend 1k or more in a quad sli set up today with that 1k i can buy a quad core, a 8800 gtx, an hr-03 plus (vga cooler) overclock the gtx to 630/1000 and get better performance

    just my opinion sorry for the bad english and hope this helps u

    Going with AM2 is stupid why?Cause I refuse to do buisness with Intel processors?
    Why is going with 8 gigz of DDR2 a bad idea?Yes DDR3 will be a standard in a year or two,but that only reinforces the reason to get 8 gigz now of DDR2,that way in the future the user wont need to buy more memory even if DDR3 is a standard and logically DDR2 prices would be higher.So why not have the 8 gigz now while its dirt cheap?
    GImme a break watercooling?You must be one of those people that think watercooling and blue and pink lights or whatever in your case make it better....
    Its just aesthetics,and if your not going to overclock you certainly dont need watercooling.Ill repeat myself,this RIG IS NOT FOR ME,THIS IS A POTENTIAL OPTION TO SELL TO CUSTOMERS.

    And as for your last comment on buidling one for less money,sigh you think I didnt already do that?
    I like to have more then one price range for my gaming rigs,this one just happens to be the highest of the highest.And it WILL sell,I can assure you that.It costs around the same as an alienware but is better.
    In the end if you read the posts correctly you will see im not using 6 raptors after all.At most Ill probably go with 4 of them.
    Last edited by Poci; 08-11-2007 at 12:48 PM.

  12. #27
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuskenraider View Post
    The old Raptor access times are the same as the new and they are still best. With what software did you verify 30% advantage over a Raptor?, because I know of no "real world" app to verify such a thing.
    Well without having both drives in the same rig, comparisons will be useless. As far as HD Tach scores are concerned, the new Seagates are about equal in STR and take almost double the time for random access, but of course that isn't real world testing.
    The 30% advantage is just my best guess, as the raptors are no longer in my system.

    I disagree that they would need to be in the same rig. The only relivant variable besides the drive is going to be the disk controler and drivers, which would be minor relative to the drive, at least if a single drive is tested at a time.

    For access time tests I take a directory of many files of varying size, copy it to the blank drive I want to test, move them to the back of the disk with JKDefrag (which puts the biggest files further back) then I use it to sort them, by name, to the front of the drive. I time this and average 3 runs as there may be slight variances. Resising the partition to match the size of the smaller drive before this is done can also give closer to real world results.

    Most synthetic benchmarks that measure access time simply show the latency for puttting the head on specific, widely separated parts of the disk. I have zero doubt in my mind that any raptor in existence could do this faster than the absolute best 7,200rpm drive. However, in actual usage, outside of horribly fragmented drives and servers, things like this almost never come up.

    Old (37GB and the first 74Gb raptors) have nothing on the new ones with regard to real world access times. Yes, the platters spin just as fast and the actuator is just as quick. However, the newer raptors are much faster in every single real world aspect. They have double the plater density. Data is closer together, the same rotation of the disk covers more data and the same movement of the actuator skips over much more usable space. If you have the same files on the drive and the same relative space separating them, a new 150GB raptor is going to be quite noticeably more responsive and faster than one of the originals.
    Last edited by oralpain; 08-11-2007 at 01:28 PM.

  13. #28
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    Hmm,are the raptors at newegg the new ones?
    I notice they dont have the 36 gig ones anymore just the 74 and 150 ones.
    Sucks cause I was planning on getting me some 36 gig ones for my own personal rig

  14. #29
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    36GB ones have been discontinued for some time.

    Why would you want them anyway? Go back and look at the original raptor benchmarks if you don't believe what I have said; try and find a single test (real world or pseudo realworld) that shows them beating any desktop perpendicular recording 7,200rpm drive.

    They were fast 3 years ago, they are seriously showing their age now.

  15. #30
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    Re: 6X Raptors overkill?

    The 36 gig ADFD model is still in production.

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