cpu upgrade advice? (amd)

[wjogert]

Hey all. I'm looking for general opinions here.

My current system is Athlon XP 2800+ on a Soyo KT880 Dragon2 v2 MoBo. 2Gb DDR400 running dual-channel.

I have just acquired a feature-comparable socket-939 MoBo. I have an Athlon 64 3000+ I can use, and an extra 1Gb (3Gb total) of DDR400. But, I would lose my ATI FireGL X2-256, because it's AGP-pro. So, I would have to downgrade to my FireGL X1-128 AGP. Otherwise, board/system specs would remain identical.

It was my intention to set this board aside while I look for a decent X2 CPU, and a FireGL X2 or X3 with standard AGP... but I'm wondering if it's worth changing now (ahead of schedule, rather) with the above configuration. I suspect there wouldn't be much performance gain over the XP system, but I'd like other opinions.

Also, any advice on Athlon 64 X2 cpu's? From 3800+ to 4800+ is a HUGE price span. What is considered the best bang-for-the-buck? Or am I better off looking for an FX instead? Also, someone mentioned that this board should run 939-Opteron, which seem to be cheaper (used) than X2's??

Opinions?

TIA!

[_dangtx_]

if u overclock u can get a 4000+ or even 3600+(but theyre pretty close in price) to 3 gigs or so on a nice and cheap mobo, am2 of course. u will need ddr2 tough. if u want to keep your ddram and agp card then go for an asrock board. but then its gonna be a c2d. nothign wrong with it, except u wont see monster clocks itll blast your curent setup out of the bungalow for sure

[uddarts]

do a 1m run with this app on your 880. it will give you a benchmark to compare.

http://www.xtremesystems.com/pi/

i have a 880 too. it's oc'd to 12.5x200 and does 1m in 44 seconds.

i have a 4800 toledo oc'd 12x216 and it does 1m in 34.6 sec. at stock speed 37.8 sec

i have a 175 opty oc'd 11x280 and it does 1m in 28.5 sec.

big if, you later want to oc the soltek 800pro a higher multi cpu would be better. the board has trouble doing over 240/250 htt. a 180 opty($170) gives you the same stock speed of the 4800 and the the stock heatsink(nice heatpipe) will give you a medium overclock.


ud

[wjogert]

do a 1m run with this app on your 880. it will give you a benchmark to compare.

Thanks, I'll do that. Hmmm, just ran it on my work PC (DELL Optiplex GX280, 3.2GHz) and it turned 45.328s. I'll go home tonight and compare numbers on the Soyo and Soltek boards, plus a few others.

i have a 880 too. it's oc'd to 12.5x200 and does 1m in 44 seconds.

I'm curious, what CPU are you running on that 880? (oc'd to 2.5Ghz)

i have a 175 opty oc'd 11x280 and it does 1m in 28.5 sec.

Hmmm... a 2400Mhz 4800 toledo oc'd to 2592... I can see that.
But a 2200Mhz opty 175 oc'd to 3080??? Are you kidding??? They oc that much??

[uddarts]

the 880 has a 2600-m. the 880 bios needs the help of a pin mod to produce 1.85v out of low voltage cpus.


2600 is max on the 4800 toledo. 170s have been 2800mhz consistently lately. i have two 175s that do 3gig. i can't give any hard data on the 180s. figure on 2600mhz and anything more as a plus.

ud

[wjogert]

So, I went home and ran that Super_pi app on several of my systems... for benchmark comparisons. All systems run at stock clock and voltage.

-Soyo KT880 w/ XP2800+, 2Gb DDR400 ran 1M@54.4s (much slower than I had expected given the machine's performance)

-Soltek K8T w/64 3000+, 1Gb DDR400 ran 1M@46.7s on WinXP and 49.8 on Vista Ultimate ( I thought Vista was supposed to perform more efficiently than XP?? lol)

And then the REAL upset. I decided to run the app on my lappy, a Dell XPS 1710, c2d T7200 2.0 Ghz, 2Gb DDR2-667. It ran 1M in 25.7s.
(that's faster than uddarts oc'd Opty@3Ghz ??!)

So now I'm curious. Obviously my lappy performed the task more than twice as fast as my workstation. But that is sheer processing power, correct? So how well does the Super-pi results factor into real-world performance comparison?

Thanks all. Some great food for thought, already.

[TheGlasMan]

the Soyo seems little slow,but the clock is slower. super pi is also effected by memory speed, and yours is only single channel, that may account for it.
the s939 seems about right, and as you notice Vista is not faster, 64 bit could be but S-pi is 32 bit so wouldn't matter.
No surprise with the c2d, the cache structure of the c2d gives Super pi etc a big boost. c2d is 4/3 faster per clock which is why the lower clock speed wasn't a real handicap. the best time I got with an overcocked San Diego was +/- 30sec, with the memory speed cranked up very high.

Super pi is not an indicator of system performance. Once the application grows beyond the cache size things tend to equalize, as does the switching of tasks (within the program or a different program), and other bottlenecks come into play. I don't know how the video card change will effect performance in your case, but I'm sure the 3000 would be faster overall than the XP. A dual core would be better if you are working many apps. S-Pi is a single thread app, but if you run many apps at the same time c2d and x2 are a big help.

[wjogert]

the Soyo..., is only single channel.

Actually the Soyo board is running dual-channels of DDR400, 1Gb/channel, but only at 333MHz because of the 2800+ FSB (166x2)

Super pi is not an indicator of system performance. Once the application grows beyond the cache size things tend to equalize, as does the switching of tasks (within the program or a different program), and other bottlenecks come into play.

That is precisely as I expected. However, S_Pi was really cool for comparing sheer processing ability. I expect to play with it a bit, trying processors in different boards, with different chipsets, etc., just for the fun of it.

I don't know how the video card change will effect performance in your case, but I'm sure the 3000 would be faster overall than the XP.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. 3000+ has a slower clock, but direct memory access should improve performance over the 2800+@333FSB. How much better was the question. I'm beginning to suspect the gain isn't worth downgrading a 9800 GPU to a 9700 with half the VRAM, considering CAD, Photoshop, Corel, Shockwave Flash, and other programs that I use. I think I'll stick to the original plan to get a decent dual core and an ATI X2 or X3 with a standard AGP, before putting this board into service.

A dual core would be better if you are working many apps. S-Pi is a single thread app, but if you run many apps at the same time c2d and x2 are a big help.

And that is precisely how I use my workstation. I don't game. I run several resource-demanding apps at the same time, including several CAD programs, photo/video editing programs, MatLab, etc.

You know, my Athlon XP really does a great job of handling all these tasks. It's not like the system is handicapped!! It takes everything I ask of it, and never complains. So it's not like I'm in a rush to replace it. But, it will still be nice to see how much faster the system runs when strapped to a brawny X2 or Opty

[TheGlasMan]

And that is precisely how I use my workstation. I don't game. I run several resource-demanding apps at the same time, including several CAD programs, photo/video editing programs, MatLab, etc.

There you go.

[howieh60]

Best bang for the s939 $ is the 3800+ X2 I've seen them for $64 NIB right now
from what I've been reading if you are going to stick it out with AGP the ATi X1900XT is better then the best Nvidia offering. The X1900XT has 12 pixel pipelines , however there are 3 shader pipes for each one which easily blow the fastest Nividia AGP card away

[_dangtx_]

did they have that card in agp?

[wjogert]

Ok...and my final question on the matter (I hope!)

I'm currently deciding between an Opteron 180 (Denmark) and an X2 4800+ (sk939's).

Both are 2.4Ghz and have 1024 caches. What I'm unsure about is:
--the Opteron lists a 1000MHz HT, but no "system bus speed"
--the X2 lists a 2000Mhz "system bus speed", but no HT spec.

Since HT is the bus to the northbridge, are these two different names for the same thing?
Or do X2's and Opterons run the same HT speed?

[TheGlasMan]

Since HT is the bus to the northbridge, are these two different names for the same thing?
Or do X2's and Opterons run the same HT speed?

Yes and yes. The opty should have a better memory controller (by test, not design) otherwise the same chips. Opties generally will always reach 2.8G,the 4200's used to be more of a crap shoot, don't know how they do currently