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  1. #1
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    Contested French immigration bill passes

    By NATHALIE SCHUCK, Associated Press Writer Tue Oct 23, 6:20 PM ET

    PARIS - French lawmakers adopted a hotly contested bill on Tuesday that would institute language exams and potential DNA testing for prospective immigrants, making it more difficult for families to join loved ones in France.
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    if(window.yzq_d==null)window.yzq_d=new Object(); window.yzq_d['TmtwE0LEYrQ-']='&U=13b0b0fb4%2fN%3dTmtwE0LEYrQ-%2fC%3d609580.11598123.12101943.1442997%2fD%3dLREC%2fB%3d4985040';
    The DNA amendment, the most controversial aspect of the legislation, is meant to ensure that claims of family ties are true. It was added as a way to ensure that visa-seekers were not using fraudulent papers, common in some African countries.
    While the expensive test is optional, critics fear it would be viewed as mandatory by those hoping to join family members in France.
    The opposition Socialist Party has said it would take the issue before the Constitutional Council, which ensures that all laws conform with the constitution, in the hopes of getting the DNA amendment dumped. The move delays the bill's formal passage into law.
    "This law is aimed at institutionalizing xenophobia," said Communist Party lawmaker Patrick Braouezec.
    France's National Ethics Committee, a consultative body, has also said it has serious reservations about the DNA amendment for fear it could erode individual freedoms.
    In a bid to appease critics, the DNA amendment was watered down to an 18-month experiment in several countries, with a genetic comparison only being made between a child seeking to join a mother already in France.
    The legislation is a step toward fulfilling Conservative French President Nicolas Sarkozy's goal of increasing the proportion of skilled immigrants in France from 7 percent to 50 percent and generally tailoring the profile of the immigrant community.
    In September, Sarkozy proposed immigration quotas by regions of the world and by occupation.
    "I want us to be able to establish each year, after a debate in parliament, a quota with a ceiling for the number of foreigners we accept on our territory," he said at the time.
    Immigration reform was a central theme of Sarkozy's presidential campaign.
    "You are reimbursing your debt to the extreme right," Greens Party lawmaker Noel Mamere said Tuesday ahead of the vote, a reference to the far-right party which voted massively for Sarkozy at the expense of its own candidate, Jean-Marie Le Pen.
    The rest of the bill requires that prospective immigrants take a language test and an exam on fundamental French values. It also sets a minimum income level for the relative in France to ensure the person arriving has enough financial support.
    Twenty-one deputies of Sarkozy's Union for a Popular Movement abstained in the 282-235 vote in the lower house, the National Assembly, and four voted against the bill. The bill passed in the Senate 185-136.





















    interesting.

    add a couple 120mm fans overhead to drop temps by 10+ celsiusD.S.C-12(2)-disclaimer : whatever u do with your hardware/software is your
    responsibility, which i dont hold if u break anything

    GRAB here OcBible v1.55 and Guidemania v1.21
    scary pooch?pooch#1taking ball from dogpooch pulln on ropeme on board after 2 years
    of no board
    http://gonny.se/ <-cool lady http://www.mediafire.com/?8dmg21ms1vx
    IN MEMORY OF HOW BM WAS TREATED HERE...

  2. #2
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by _dangtx_ View Post
    The legislation is a step toward fulfilling Conservative French President Nicolas Sarkozy's goal of increasing the proportion of skilled immigrants in France from 7 percent to 50 percent



    Translation: "skilled" = white. The majority of current immigrants to France are from North Africa, and are unskilled.


    M

  3. #3
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    ths looks to be a 'problem solver' over there...they blame a lotta issues on immigrants and crap. altough accepting only people whove gone tru university wouldnt be too bad either. how many of those are gonna make ghettos famous? none. why? cuz they wont be in them.
    with the way france was going im not sure why they didnt nazi out loong ago

    add a couple 120mm fans overhead to drop temps by 10+ celsiusD.S.C-12(2)-disclaimer : whatever u do with your hardware/software is your
    responsibility, which i dont hold if u break anything

    GRAB here OcBible v1.55 and Guidemania v1.21
    scary pooch?pooch#1taking ball from dogpooch pulln on ropeme on board after 2 years
    of no board
    http://gonny.se/ <-cool lady http://www.mediafire.com/?8dmg21ms1vx
    IN MEMORY OF HOW BM WAS TREATED HERE...

  4. #4
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    Translation: "skilled" = not there just to tap into the welfare state, but to contribute to the French enonomy.

  5. #5
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Enmore View Post
    Translation: "skilled" = not there just to tap into the welfare state, but to contribute to the French enonomy.
    indeed wonder when the USA is going to get "skilled" in dealing with our invasion?

  6. #6
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    The west needs to realise that the 3rd world is on the move. Their unstoppable overpopulation is far more of a crisis than any global warming BS.

  7. #7
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    Translation: "skilled" = white. The majority of current immigrants to France are from North Africa, and are unskilled.


    M
    Are you saying that this is a purely racist move and that skilled black applicants will be turned away? Or are you saying that host countries have no right to set the requirements for access to their countries respectively as they see fit?

    I tend to agree with Enmore that the move was made to insure that immigrants can actually contribute to their host country instead of simply being added as another drain on it's social services.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  8. #8
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    Another note the whole "they do jobs no one else wants"is BS too!

  9. #9
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Are you saying that this is a purely racist move


    It's a racist move, but not purely one. Like many things politicians say, it's designed to sound like they are doing one thing, but fully aware that certain consequences will automatically follow. As I said, the vast majority of people moving to France are a) black (or at least darker skinned than the natives) and b) unskilled. The law sounds sensible at face value, but it has certain side effects which will appeal to the right-wingers who elected the current government without them having to say anything as crass as: "you can only come in if you're white (like Australia used to) or rich" (as Britain still tries - you can enter the UK no questions asked if you "invest" (IIRC) 500,000. Which is why there are so many Russian mafia in the UK). If only "skilled" people can enter, then it keeps out the large floods of unskilled people - who just happen to be black . And muslim for that matter.

    As for whether they pay into the country; despite what you read in the right-wing red-tops, the majority of economic migrants want to work - they come to the West to earn money to send home. Of course some scrounge the dole, but at a far lower proportion than the locals. A high proportion will pay taxes, and at least 70% will probably leave within ten years.


    A brief side note: economic migration is a fundamental human characteristic. Trying to stop it as absolutely futile - roughly the same as trying to stop people shopping. If it wasn't fundamental the human race would be two thousand hominids in the Great Rift Valley. The original settlers in the US may have been fleeing religious persecution (or not) but the vast majority that came over later moved to make more money than they got at home. The same is true of pretty much every country on earth at some point. A far better response would be to filter the ones who want to come and set them to work. And make sure they pay their taxes. Which of course illegals don't.


    M

  10. #10
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    It's a racist move, but not purely one. Like many things politicians say, it's designed to sound like they are doing one thing, but fully aware that certain consequences will automatically follow. As I said, the vast majority of people moving to France are a) black (or at least darker skinned than the natives) and b) unskilled. The law sounds sensible at face value, but it has certain side effects which will appeal to the right-wingers who elected the current government without them having to say anything as crass as: "you can only come in if you're white (like Australia used to) or rich" (as Britain still tries - you can enter the UK no questions asked if you "invest" (IIRC) 500,000. Which is why there are so many Russian mafia in the UK). If only "skilled" people can enter, then it keeps out the large floods of unskilled people - who just happen to be black . And muslim for that matter.
    I'm not seeing the racist thing. If you are not allowing unskilled persons to enter your country as a policy for all.. it's not racist. Those same folks are free to pursue an education and apply. Though I can see how the race card will be played. If the majority of those unskilled applying are black, Hispanic, Vietnamese... Muslim... name it.. your a racist for setting any requirements for their entry to YOUR country. Immigration is not a RIGHT.. it's a privilege to be doled out as the host country see's fit... not as the immigrants wish it to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    As for whether they pay into the country; despite what you read in the right-wing red-tops, the majority of economic migrants want to work - they come to the West to earn money to send home. Of course some scrounge the dole, but at a far lower proportion than the locals. A high proportion will pay taxes, and at least 70% will probably leave within ten years.
    Ya... I see it differently than ultra liberals who think immigration to another country is a right to any immigrant... so I must be basing my opinions entirely on those "right-wing red-tops". Please leave that trash at the curb where it belongs. I happen to live in a state inundated with illegals draining our social services. Sure lettuce is cheap... but taxes are through the roof. I'd rather pay more for lettuce and make sure the pickers are earning a livable wage. I know it seems implausible that a conservative can actually formulate his own opinion based on experience if it opposes your view... but it does happen. A great many more "scrounge the dole" than you care to admit. Look at the France car-ber-que extravaganza just a lil while back. The vast majority of those "youths of unknown ethnicity" are unemployed. I'd like to see some numbers to back your claim that:

    Of course some scrounge the dole, but at a far lower proportion than the locals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    A brief side note: economic migration is a fundamental human characteristic. Trying to stop it as absolutely futile - roughly the same as trying to stop people shopping. If it wasn't fundamental the human race would be two thousand hominids in the Great Rift Valley. The original settlers in the US may have been fleeing religious persecution (or not) but the vast majority that came over later moved to make more money than they got at home. The same is true of pretty much every country on earth at some point. A far better response would be to filter the ones who want to come and set them to work. And make sure they pay their taxes. Which of course illegals don't.

    M
    It is not "futile" to stop what you call "economic migration". Perhaps back in the day when we did not have the ability to enforce borders it was.. that does not apply today. Uncontrolled immigration is economically suicidal for any country. Look at the western countries with the loosest immigration policies and you are looking at countries with economies straining under the burden and looking to reform said loose immigration policies. France is a darn good example. One sure way to ensure those who desire to come truly wish to work and pay taxes is having an education prior to entering the country IMHO.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  11. #11
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    If only "skilled" people can enter, then it keeps out the large floods of unskilled people - who just happen to be black . And muslim for that matter.
    Boo--hoo. Maybe just maybe, Mr. Watson is right after all. Just that nobody wants to admit it, as some things are just too painful to hear.
    Nuke em'.

  12. #12
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate View Post
    Boo--hoo. Maybe just maybe, Mr. Watson is right after all. Just that nobody wants to admit it, as some things are just too painful to hear.


    Even Mr Watson admits that Mr Watson has no evidence to back up his views. And you seem to be confusing unskilled with stupid. Especially when applied to black people.


    M

  13. #13
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    I'm not seeing the racist thing.


    OK, I'll try again. With a rather poor analogy (all analogies are poor): imagine a world where you cannot market a job as being for men only. But you tell people that that they can only have a job if they have a chest measurement bigger than 42", and they must be prepared to strip to the waist in summer. On the face of it the rule is not discriminatory, but the result clearly will be - it's difficult to see more than a small number of women applying.

    The question then arises: is this side-effect deliberate, or accidental? The same applies to the French proposal: the results will clearly be racist, as it will allow well-educated people in - and they will mostly be white - but keep out ill-educated people - who will mostly be black. Personally I would rather they just came right out and said: "No blacks".


    As for the rioting, my understanding is that most of the rioters were second-gen citizens, but I wait to be corrected.


    And at what point does

    Uncontrolled immigration is economically suicidal for any country
    become true? It didn't seem to hurt the US for well over a century. My understanding is (and again I'm happy to be corrected) that controls were only placed late in the nineteenth century. I also see little evidence to support it, but the situation is complicated: most countries with a large influx are currently successful. That after all is the reason for the influx. I'm interested in any examples of a country that has undergone long-term damage SOLELY due to immigration.


    M

  14. #14
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    OK, I'll try again. With a rather poor analogy (all analogies are poor): imagine a world where you cannot market a job as being for men only. But you tell people that that they can only have a job if they have a chest measurement bigger than 42", and they must be prepared to strip to the waist in summer. On the face of it the rule is not discriminatory, but the result clearly will be - it's difficult to see more than a small number of women applying.

    The question then arises: is this side-effect deliberate, or accidental? The same applies to the French proposal: the results will clearly be racist, as it will allow well-educated people in - and they will mostly be white - but keep out ill-educated people - who will mostly be black. Personally I would rather they just came right out and said: "No blacks".
    No.. the results are not clearly "racist" as you claim. You may perceive them as racist.. but that does not make your analogy or your claim valid. Want to make the claim valid... show me proof that the intent is to keep blacks or what have you out simply based on race/religion. What you perceive as a "racist" standard is what many see as a necessary step to ensure that the country can prosper and accommodate more immigrants. What standard would you suggest they apply.. if any at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    As for the rioting, my understanding is that most of the rioters were second-gen citizens, but I wait to be corrected.
    Planning on answering every question with another question? I'm still waiting for my proof that:

    Of course some scrounge the dole, but at a far lower proportion than the locals
    I can see where that stat would be loaded... but I'd still like to see it if you are still standing by the claim. But the direct effect of the parents immigration is more people on the dole... the children of the immigrants are now the "locals" you claim outnumber the immigrants on the dole. Cause and effect.. no immigrants.. no immigrants children on the dole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    And at what point does

    become true? It didn't seem to hurt the US for well over a century. My understanding is (and again I'm happy to be corrected) that controls were only placed late in the nineteenth century.
    So we ignore the trend until the burden gets too much to bear? It is hurting our social infrastructure now. Not just the illegals... but the now citizen anchor children that we must support. We have a legal immigration process for a reason...

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    I also see little evidence to support it, but the situation is complicated: most countries with a large influx are currently successful. That after all is the reason for the influx. I'm interested in any examples of a country that has undergone long-term damage SOLELY due to immigration.
    Are currently successful.. that trend will not continue if immigration goes on unmitigated. France is a perfect example of what you claim to "fail to see".
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  15. #15
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    Re: Contested French immigration bill passes

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    Personally I would rather they just came right out and said: "No blacks".
    France's biggest problem is with their Algerians, not blacks like the Senegalese.

    And even if that was their plan, well we all know they could never come out and say it. It's just not worth the grief.

    As for the rioting, my understanding is that most of the rioters were second-gen citizens, but I wait to be corrected.
    Which is why you don't let the first generation of people from incompatible cultures in. It's making a rod for your own back to do anything else.

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