Is Reagan conservatism dead?

[bk94si]

They don't need to ditch the pro-life movement. Republicans are overwhelmingly pro-life anyway. Most of the pro-choice people are Democrats.

[bk94si]

I also think Reagan would still win in a landslide, like aerosim said, there just isn't a Reagan running for office now.

[BlackDragon24]

They don't need to ditch the pro-life movement. Republicans are overwhelmingly pro-life anyway. Most of the pro-choice people are Democrats.

The pro-life movement goes against everything republicans should stand for. Its big government intrusion at the highest levels. Especially all of these new laws popping up in state legislatures...some of which force women to have ultrasounds or even be read government mandated pamphlets before they get to to have a legal medical procedure.

[Keven]

The pro-life movement goes against everything republicans should stand for. Its big government intrusion at the highest levels. Especially all of these new laws popping up in state legislatures...some of which force women to have ultrasounds or even be read government mandated pamphlets before they get to to have a legal medical procedure.

No, that's not it.

The Religious Right sees abortion as murder. Murder is illegal in the United States.

You're saying "People who think murderers should be put in prison are big government statist!"

You've got to think of this form their perspective. It's not a legal issue, it's a moral issue and they see it as a capital offense. Whether you're a small government civil liberties libertarian or a social statist, everybody agrees that murder should be illegal. The Religious Right comes at it from that perspective.

[Dutchcedar]

Meh.

The current Republican position is that abortions shouldn't be paid for with government money.

That's a very popular position.

The state requirements for ultra-sounds, etc. are not even part of the national discussion.

Government paid abortions are only supported by a minority.

So we get spin instead of honest debate from the left.

They support outlawing circumcisions because they are cruel to infants, but want to pay for you to suck that puppy out if ya don't like your babies' daddy.

Okey dokey.

[BlackDragon24]

No, that's not it.

The Religious Right sees abortion as murder. Murder is illegal in the United States.

You're saying "People who think murderers should be put in prison are big government statist!"

You've got to think of this form their perspective. It's not a legal issue, it's a moral issue and they see it as a capital offense. Whether you're a small government civil liberties libertarian or a social statist, everybody agrees that murder should be illegal. The Religious Right comes at it from that perspective.

The supreme court ruled it was not murder over 40 years ago.

So the argument is worthless. People can take their "morailty" and shove it up their asses AFAIC. Their morality doesn't dictate anything.

And I won't derail the thread any more with abortion arguments. We all know the arguments for both sides.

[Keven]

The supreme court ruled it was not murder over 40 years ago.

So the argument is worthless. People can take their "morailty" and shove it up their asses AFAIC. Their morality doesn't dictate anything.

And I won't derail the thread any more with abortion arguments. We all know the arguments for both sides.

I'm not saying it is or isn't murder. I'm saying the Religious Right sees it as murder - ergo, government intervention in abortion isn't "big government", just the way that a police department enforcing laws against murder aren't "big government".

Anyway, abortion isn't going anywhere. We have a ceasefire on that issue that both mainstream sides of the spectrum are happy with. The Radical Right isn't happy, but if the situation was reversed, the Radical Left wouldn't be happy.

Abortion is the Israel-Palestine of American politics. There's no middle ground that will make both sides happy. All you can hope for is a ceasefire that will keep both sides mostly happy enough.

[Dutchcedar]

The supreme court ruled it was not murder over 40 years ago.

So the argument is worthless. People can take their "morailty" and shove it up their asses AFAIC. Their morality doesn't dictate anything.

And the Supreme Court ruled that powers to be in your town can take your house for a developer building a shopping mall.

Your argument that the Supreme Court trumps God is typical of liberalism, where all opinions matter, as long they are in line with liberals.

But back to the real position of Republicans as a party (not to be confused with Christians as individuals), the argument today revolves around late term abortions and government funding of abortions... not overturning Roe vs. Wade, as you suggest.

[Keven]

And the Supreme Court ruled that powers to be in your town can take your house for a developer building a shopping mall

Yes. That's true. The Supreme Court also ruled in Plessy v. Ferguson that you could segregate different facilities for different races as long as they were "Separate But Equal".

But Dutch is right, we're off topic.

[BlackDragon24]

So we get spin instead of honest debate from the left.

Surely the left is spinning the info Dutch:



Its closer to 3%...but hey who is counting. Not intended to be a factual statement.

[Dutchcedar]

^^^ An isolated bit from Kyl and a reference to a special election in New York to make a point about abortion as it relates to the death of Reagan conservatism.

Hey, if your argument fails, divert. Liberalism at its finest.

But yeah, I see you did spin a false 3 to 1 voter response in the other thread, trying to make a convoluted claim that it was some sort of national referendum on the Ryan plan.

[BlackDragon24]

^^^ An isolated bit from Kyl and a reference to a special election in New York to make a point about abortion as it relates to the death of Reagan conservatism.

Hey, if your argument fails, divert. Liberalism at its finest.

But yeah, I see you did spin a false 3 to 1 voter response in the other thread, trying to make a convoluted claim that it was some sort of national referendum on the Ryan plan.

An isolated bit? Hmmm...I guess that's what you righties call boldfaced lying on the senate floor. But hey, we all have our standards

[Dutchcedar]

^^^ Did a Republican misrepresent the dear and beloved abortion factory and set you into a tizzy?

To be honest, I didn't watch your clip. I'm on mountain dial-up. So I'm guessing here.

Look BD, we could easily make this a back and forth of quotes from Kyl and Reid and Pelosi and whomever, attempting to paint your side or mine as this or that because of what these people say, and hey, we could rename the thread otoc style combat.

Now, if you don't think its an isolated bit, fine. What Kyl says speaks for everyone on the right and when he lies in your eyes, all of us on the right are lying.

We now have 57 states and Obamacare will save us all money and man-made global warming caused last night's tornadoes.

Feel better?

Great. Spin on.

[AMDScooter]

If you want to take some solace, you can rest assured that Obama, as much as you guys like to say is a socialist left wing union thug, is actually a lot more like a republican than any democrat out there.

Obama is looking like a 2008 Republican

Carville is generally crazy, but I challenge anyone to refute any of his points with facts.

Challenge accepted. I'd say Carville is a hair more factually challenged than you believe. Bad case of revisionist history at best.

1) Very first point.. where did GW or any other repuggie think that making a "contiguous" Palestinian state thereby splitting Israel in two was a good idea? Or a repuggoe that wanted anything like Bamma's retarded rolling back to 1967 border "plan"?

2) Using TARP funds to bail out the UAW. Who exactly outside the administration and the UAW is labeling that a "success"? Personally I'm still rather pissed about loaning these dirtbags any money at all and even less than pleased that they "paid us back" with our own money. Which repuggies are lauding the a UAW bailout success?

As a reminder to both you and Carville... GW did this at the request of bamma. See the bailout thread in TLR for the details.

3) Individual mandates. Right.. we were really on board with that.

4) The stimulus?? Seriously. How many repuggies voted in favor of that POS? As many as voted for the POS "health care" bill. Sorry carville you ranting twit... your party has sole ownership of both.

Bamma taking GOP ideas...?? Really?? I wanna puke.. seriously. What a steaming pile of sh*t.

[Keven]

^^^ Did a Republican misrepresent the dear and beloved abortion factory and set you into a tizzy?

God damn, somebody put quarters in Dutch today. He's on a roll!