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  1. #106
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    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    And he had almost nothing to do with bringing down the Iron Curtain either: that was Gorbachev. If Gorbachev had wanted to play the hard man he could have hung on to the Eastern Bloc for many years. He simply chose to let it go. Reagan just made a good job of taking the credit from people who didn't look too closely.
    Oh?

    And the military spending war between the United States and the Soviet Union that Reagan orchestrated had nothing to do with the collapse of the Soviet planned economy near the end? The hyper-inflation and the rise of the Russian black market scene? Do you think Reagan introduced Star Wars, the B-1B bomber and the B-2 bomber just for kicks?

    Sound likes you just want to give the credit to a socialist. Lemme guess, you vote Labour.

    Also glad to see Comrade "Taxes Are Good" liteman back with us too.

  2. #107
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    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    The man was a gentleman who had the guts to end conflicts and raise interest rates.
    I thought interest rates were at an all time high when Reagen took office, and he actually fought hard to decrease those rates.

    A decrease which started under his administration, and got to the point a few years ago where we could no longer decrease those rates without setting them to zero.Then banks started making more foolish loans so they were making something (if rates are lower, loan more!) but then the inevitable defaults started and here we are today, with interest rates too low to drop any further to provide the stimulus we saw over the last 30 years.

    Greenspan economics always seemed to me to have one answer: Decrease interest rates for a short term boost. But we bottomed out those interest rates and no longer have that option available. Now they just print more money and it doesn't work.
    Tyan S5397 2x X5450 16GB - SuperMicro H8DCI 2x 275 8GB - Iwill DK8X 2x Opteron 250 2GB


    Take a Kid FISHING!

  3. #108
    Joined
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    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by smoked trout View Post
    I thought interest rates were at an all time high when Reagen took office, and he actually fought hard to decrease those rates.

    ....
    Actually, they were peaked during his first year to hold off inflation. The rest of his term insured that those investing in bonds and interest bearing funds would enjoy a rate of return that outpaced inflation ... which is how I invested until I got a brain.

    If you can understand that inflation is related to the amount of debt issued, you will understand that higher interest rates shrink the amount bonds issued because no one wants to pay the interest. Moreover, our situation is perilous today because we are already spending 15% of our budget paying the interest on low rate bonds. If interest rates go up, so does the percentage of our interest payments.

    A debt based economy has this Catch-22 built into it.

    Here's the rate history of (end Carter+)Reagan's term straight from the Fed:

    1979 10.05
    1980 11.51
    1981 14.03
    1982 10.69
    1983 8.63
    1984 9.53
    1985 7.47
    1986 5.98
    1987 5.82
    1988 6.69

    http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h15/data.htm
    Last edited by AeroSim; 05-26-2011 at 01:10 PM.
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  4. #109
    Joined
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    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    I think I'll start Planned Penishood... get some federal funding and help all the guys with woody malfunctions.

    Dutch’s Woody Repair Service
    Planned Penishood, Inc

    Rock solid...

  5. #110
    Joined
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    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    California is crazy.


    I might have exaggerated the age a couple of years but you get the idea.

    When you think you’ve seen it all California proves you wrong.

  6. #111
    Joined
    Sep 2008
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    Crazy AZ USA
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    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Dutch’s Woody Repair Service
    Planned Penishood, Inc

    Rock solid...
    I knew chippy had to be someone's idea....
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  7. #112
    Joined
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    6,728

    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Dutch’s Woody Repair Service
    Planned Penishood, Inc

    Rock solid...
    LOL, just be careful choosing that name. Filed under the "truth is stranger than fiction" file, we have a local company called Manrod Electric. One of their employees? D!ck Steele. Seriously. It's a routine line around the office, "I'm D!ck Steele with Manrod Electric."

  8. #113
    Joined
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    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by myv65 View Post
    LOL, just be careful choosing that name. Filed under the "truth is stranger than fiction" file, we have a local company called Manrod Electric. One of their employees? D!ck Steele. Seriously. It's a routine line around the office, "I'm D!ck Steele with Manrod Electric."

    I can see where you would have a lot of fun with that one…

  9. #114
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Twain Harte, CA
    Posts
    16,967

    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by myv65 View Post
    LOL, just be careful choosing that name. Filed under the "truth is stranger than fiction" file, we have a local company called Manrod Electric. One of their employees? D!ck Steele. Seriously. It's a routine line around the office, "I'm D!ck Steele with Manrod Electric."


    When I was selling things that were big, moved, and never been built before to the aerospace industry, it was me (Peter) and Richard (Dlck) that were doing the peddling. They called us the two prlcks in sales. We were looking for another one... hopefully someone named Rodney (Rod). We had a lot of fun with it.
    Dutch’s Woody Repair Service
    Planned Penishood, Inc

    Rock solid...
    We're gonna have to fire up jimz industries again...

  10. #115
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    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Then there was my current boss's trip to China and the introductions that occurred.

    Mr. Peter, meet Mr. Dong. Mr. Dong, Mr. Peter. Funny things sometimes happen when they use our first names for introductions.

  11. #116
    Joined
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    Vvardenfell
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    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    Oh the faith is takes to believe those statements.

    Of course it wouldn't have anything to do with what Reagan might have done if they hadn't.

    I'm going to gloss over the irony of that first statement and the fact that it's you who seems to be worshipping blindly, not me, and move to the second and ask: what? What would have done? The usual gambit from the right is that he would have pumped (that is, wasted) yet more money into SDI and "forced" the USSR to follow. The trouble with guessing what would happen is that it's exactly that: a guess. Gorbachev might have played along and bankrupted the country. But it was already bankrupt, so who would have noticed? Gorbachev might have gone the Chinese route and introduced limited reforms. Or he might have realised that SDI could never work and stopped fighting against it. But all those are in the hands of Gorbachev, not Reagan, so it would still all be down to the Russian, not the American. Again: Reagan just took credit for being in the right place at the right time.


    M

  12. #117
    Joined
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    Crazy AZ USA
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    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    I'm going to gloss over the irony of that first statement and the fact that it's you who seems to be worshipping blindly, not me, and move to the second and ask: what? What would have done? The usual gambit from the right is that he would have pumped (that is, wasted) yet more money into SDI and "forced" the USSR to follow. The trouble with guessing what would happen is that it's exactly that: a guess. Gorbachev might have played along and bankrupted the country. But it was already bankrupt, so who would have noticed? Gorbachev might have gone the Chinese route and introduced limited reforms. Or he might have realised that SDI could never work and stopped fighting against it. But all those are in the hands of Gorbachev, not Reagan, so it would still all be down to the Russian, not the American. Again: Reagan just took credit for being in the right place at the right time.


    M
    My first statement was in regard to the Iran hostage situation. I actually had some insight into that ... that wasn't political. That said, Reagan had won the election and that "moved things along". They were afraid of what was coming if they didn't.

    My second statement stands. The USSR imploded on its own breed of corruption. While you were having toast with your tea, one heckuva a lot of Russians were literally starving and freezing trying to maintain a military at WWII levels fighting their own adventures and implementing state controlled economic policies that failed time and time again. Despite what you may think, Gorbachev could not act entirely on his own. He was not Stalin and Stalin had to cut quite a few throats watch his own back. This did not happen without at least the grudging consent of the Politburo and the military. Whether SDI was the final stroke doesn't really matter- the walls came down .... while we watched under Bush.
    Last edited by AeroSim; 05-27-2011 at 09:44 AM. Reason: oops
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  13. #118
    Joined
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    Location
    Kern River Valley, CA
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    66
    Posts
    9,453

    Re: Is Reagan conservatism dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    My first statement was in regard to the Iran hostage situation. I actually had some insight into that ... that wasn't political. That said, Reagan had won the election and that "moved things along". They were afraid of what was coming if they didn't.

    My second statement stands. The USSR imploded on its own breed of corruption. While you were having toast with your tea, one heckuva a lot of Russians were literally starving and freezing trying to maintain a military at WWII levels fighting their own adventures and implementing state controlled economic policies that failed time and time again. Despite what you may think, Gorbachev could not act entirely on his own. He was not Stalin and Stalin had to cut quite a few throats watch his own back. This did not happen without at least the grudging consent of the Politburo and the military. Whether SDI was the final stroke doesn't really matter- the walls came down .... while we watched under Bush.

    I’m with you…

    Reagan forced the flawed soviet communist government to collapse under its own weight. The soviets were too stupid to understand they could never keep up with the United States in an arms race. They lost the ability to feed and care for their large population because most of their money went to arming and maintaining their military.

    The only reason there is still a communist government in China is because they figured out capitalism was the only way they could feed their enormous population and keep their oppressive government in power. Hell they are better at capitalism than the so-called capitalist governments in the free world.


    And here we are racing towards socialism/communism at full speed... brilliant move Toto...

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