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  1. #1
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    Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    Knowing that the Black Edition chips are 'unlocked' and are better suited for overclocking, is it possible still to overclock a non-black edition chip? An Athlon 6400+ specifically.

    Does it amount to having finer control over the clocking or is it simply whether you can or not?

  2. #2
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    Re: Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    There are only 2 ways to OC....raising the multiplier or raising the FSB.

    If you have an Athlon 6400+ (non-black-edition version) then you only have one option, which is to raise the fsb/htt value. With that chip you have a 16x multi multipled by 200 to get a net frequency of 3200mhz. If you raise the htt/fsb value, to say, 210, then you would 16x210 = 3360mhz.

    You could also say, lower the multiplier and raise the htt values, but with Athlon systems it doesn't make any difference....overall mhz is what matters. Keep in mind that by raising the processor speed you will probably need to raise voltage to the chip itslef, and possibly the northbridge and RAM as well.

    I doubt you would see much benefit from OCing that processor....it is already at the limit of what AMD could produce usign that process so you may be able to get 200-300mhz out of it at most, but you may have to jack the voltage up significantly to do so.

    If I were u, I'd just leave it alone....but thats easy enough for me to say

  3. #3
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    Re: Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    Thanks BlackDragon24. So if I understand correctly, with a non-black-edition 6400+ I can either raise the FSB with a max of 16x multiplier, or I can lower the multiplier and try to raise the FSB even more.

    Or: I can change the FSB in both directions, but I can only lower the multiplier?

    I was planning on speeding up the RAM anyhow, so I may be better off lowering the multiplier, then raising FSB and RAM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rangoon View Post
    Thanks BlackDragon24. So if I understand correctly, with a non-black-edition 6400+ I can either raise the FSB with a max of 16x multiplier, or I can lower the multiplier and try to raise the FSB even more.

    Or: I can change the FSB in both directions, but I can only lower the multiplier?

    I was planning on speeding up the RAM anyhow, so I may be better off lowering the multiplier, then raising FSB and RAM.
    You are correct about raising/lowering "FSB" and lowering multipliers, However technically "Front Side Bus" does not exist in AMD64 Architecture, due to the fact that the memory controller is onboard the CPU. The bus for this CPU between the chipset is called HyperTransport.

  5. #5
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    Re: Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rangoon View Post
    Thanks BlackDragon24. So if I understand correctly, with a non-black-edition 6400+ I can either raise the FSB with a max of 16x multiplier, or I can lower the multiplier and try to raise the FSB even more.

    Or: I can change the FSB in both directions, but I can only lower the multiplier?

    I was planning on speeding up the RAM anyhow, so I may be better off lowering the multiplier, then raising FSB and RAM.
    Take my word for it, having run AMD systems all of my life before going AMD recently. Raising your htt/fsb will make absolutely no difference in day to day life. In other words, go with the highest multi you have (16) and raise the htt/fsb slowly until you reach a point of instability, then back off.

    AMDAthlonGuy made a very good point.....the mem controller is built into these CPU's, and because of that, you don't need fast memory to get good benchmarks. However, because of some weird AMD architecture, it would be wise to always run at an even multiplier, because for whatever reason, when an odd (or half, like 11.5) multi is used, the RAM can no longer run 1:1 with the htt/fsb. In my opinion, keeping the RAM at a 1:1 ration, especially with Nvidia chipsets, is always a good thing.

    Also, the higher the multi, the lower your fsb/htt, needs to be, and thus the tighter you can run your memory.

  6. #6
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    Re: Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    Thanks, guys.

    I probably have this wrong, but wouldn't I rather keep my multiplier a hair lower so that I can raise my HTT, thereby running my RAM faster? I am temporarily getting an nVidia 590 based board (800MHz RAM) until I get something with 1066 this summer. So I have PC2-8500 which I'd like to clock closer to what it's capable of than 800. So if I raise my HTT from 200 to 250 and lower the multiplier, I'll get faster CPU speed and RAM. So at 250x14 I'd have 3.5GHz CPU and 1000MHz RAM, right?

    Of course, that is if the board and CPU can handle that.

    That said, I realize BlackDragon24 that you're suggesting I keep my HTT lower and thus can keep my RAM timings tighter rather than running it faster. Do I have that right?

  7. #7
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    Re: Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    You've got it about right, so I'll throw in the memory dividers and HTT multi to finish the picture.
    One point, since the cpu is directly connected to the memory, no matter if you are using a divider they are always in synch. Actually a divider is always used. It is 1/2 cpu multy, odd and 1/2 multies use the same divider as the next even multi (16, 15.5,15 and 14.5 all use 8) the lower multies will result in lower default memory speed.
    The HTT multie can be used to bring the HTT bus speed back to spec. Useful for lower cpu multies and high HTT's. Default is 1000 (200x5) performance is the same from 600 to the top possible (over 1200 often much more with AM2).

    As far as memory speeds go in most cases you will get better performance with lower timings, as bandwidth doesn't effect overall performance (SuperPi a notable exception) much. The argument will never be resolved as the differences are small. I do it both ways, using dividers to bring my 10x s939's memory close to default, and with my AM2 6000 (15x) and 1000 memory I use a 14x multi (7 divider default) and clock the HTT to the to 230's (with 4x htt multi) and that results in a memory speed in the 900's. No muss no fuss. I could have gone for 800 memory speeds and 4-4-4 timings, but folding likes bandwidth.

    I've had a lot of fun playing with hundreds of the possibilities since the s754 days, (250x10, 1:1) and a lot of fun with my s939's 280x10, 166 divider, 245 memory, 1:1 2-2-2 etc. With the 6400 as has been stated it will be tough to beat bumping the cpu up with a little more HTT but it is so much fun to try!!!


    "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
    - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

  8. #8
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    Re: Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    I can run my 6400 at 3.44 stable but there are no benefits.

    Bench marks jump a little but I saw no difference in game play.

    I now run mine at stock settings.
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    Never argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  9. #9
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    Re: Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    The idea behind overlocking is generally to buy a slower processor and try to run it as fast (or even faster) then the fastest processor they sell (be it AMD or Intel).

    Like for example when I built myself a "cheap" system like 2 months ago I got a x2 5000+ black edition with an after market cooler and expected it to run over 3.0ghz and its doing 3.2ghz fully stable. So its kinda like a 6400+ (with less cache but I dont really care about that).

    Right now at newegg the 6400+ sells for $163 while the 5000 BE is $85. So, at least to me, thats where overclocking really shine, it saves me some money.

    The idea is also to read lots of review about the processor you are considering to know what to expect out of it. Like for example the 6400+ is the end of the line for AMD and doesnt overclock well. But any slower AMD AM2 processor should have the potential to run at that 3.2ghz speed EDIT: but sometimes a low multi will force you to raise the htt too high and wont be stable at high speed, this is where good quality mobo will help as opposed to overlocking with an unlocked multi where you keep everything within normal spec but only overclock the processor as compared to overclocking with raising the htt where you put extra strain on the mobo as well.

    Off course its all about luck as you could not get the expected speed ....

    btw right now its another story for intel as their top of the line dual core (e8400) will go from 3.0ghz to 4.0ghz+ quite easily from what I've read.
    Last edited by xiz0r; 04-11-2008 at 10:42 AM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    Thanks for all of the input here. I should have my new rig today or possibly Monday, so I'll have a chance to start putting all of this into practice.

    It's an Asus Crosshair, 6400+ X2, 2 8800GTS1GB oc'd 730MHz, 8GB PC2-8500. This summer I'll upgrade to, probably, a 780a board and a Phenom.

  11. #11
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    Re: Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rangoon View Post
    Thanks for all of the input here. I should have my new rig today or possibly Monday, so I'll have a chance to start putting all of this into practice.

    It's an Asus Crosshair, 6400+ X2, 2 8800GTS1GB oc'd 730MHz, 8GB PC2-8500. This summer I'll upgrade to, probably, a 780a board and a Phenom.
    I'm pretty sure that the crosshair can take a phenom with a BIOS update....it may not have all of the features of a 780a board but it could do the trick....you'll have to check it out for yourself.

    As one of the posters said above....you aren't going to notice much difference overclocking that processor....You already have a top of the line processor running at the max speed that AMD could bin at for that process. But since you know you have a chip that will run stable at 3.2ghz, you can play around with the dividers and such as it will give you really good practice.

    Cheers

  12. #12
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    Re: Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    I thank windows vista for castrating my rigs oc capabilities

  13. #13
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    Re: Can you overclock a non-Black Edition Athlon?

    I am at 3.8 ghz with Vista. No difference whatsoever. There are more factors involved that can actually limit your oc.
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