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  1. #16
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    Linux isn't even close to being ready for prime time yet, and probably never will be. Ubuntu 8.04 is a positive step, but it still has a long way to go to get there. It's still way to difficult for the average user to configure the system or install new software.
    R.I.P Brad (BWM). You will be missed.

  2. #17
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrNovi View Post
    Linux isn't even close to being ready for prime time yet, and probably never will be. Ubuntu 8.04 is a positive step, but it still has a long way to go to get there. It's still way to difficult for the average user to configure the system or install new software.

    most definantly. anyone thats worked helpdesk for an organization has seen the general level of knowledge out there. and its pretty lacking. people have a hard enough time using an internet browser and basic windows functions. heck i know people where i work that still have problems logging into the domain.

    hell one user confused logging into the online helpdesk with logging into the domain. i still don't know how that was possible. and get this she was in charge of a computer lab.

    your average user isn't even to the point they could reinstall windows let alone a linux distro. not to mention the hardware problems people are likely to run into.

    i had to go into the bios and change settings to get ubuntu to boot off the live cd. yes this is 8.04 im talking about.

    in all honestly there isn't a whole lot of reasons to go to linux over windows.

    windows is practically household, which means most people won't be able to run their favorite programs on linux, they have to resort to alternatives which may or may not be as functional as their windows variants. not to mention they have to spend time learning a new OS, and all new applications.

    unless linux somehow merges seemless compatability with windows applications or developers start developing for both windows and linux, i really dont' see linux ever becoming main stream.

  3. #18
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrNovi View Post
    Linux isn't even close to being ready for prime time yet, and probably never will be.
    Bite your tongue !

  4. #19
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrNovi View Post
    Linux isn't even close to being ready for prime time yet, and probably never will be. Ubuntu 8.04 is a positive step, but it still has a long way to go to get there. It's still way to difficult for the average user to configure the system or install new software.
    i disagree. the 4 customers i installed it for love linux and have no problems doing anything. these are not tech-savvy people either. how hard is it to go to add/remove software and install stuff? much easier than surfing all over hell to find a decent program that you hope doesnt have spyware.
    It's still way to difficult for the average user to configure the system
    how hard is it to configure? configure what? theme? appearance? the average person doesnt even "configure" windows.

    distros like ubuntu, pclinuxos and linuxmint make it very easy for newbies to use linux.
    Linux isn't even close to being ready for prime time yet
    because you said it? must be true then.
    Last edited by wolfen69; 04-28-2008 at 01:48 AM.
    Ubuntu User #15003
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    AMD Phenom II X4 @ 3.4ghz/8GB DDR3/NvidiaGT430/Ubuntu 11.10

  5. #20
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    Quote Originally Posted by modru2004 View Post

    in all honestly there isn't a whole lot of reasons to go to linux over windows.
    #1 cost
    #2 safer
    #3 more stable
    #4 basically unlimited updates
    #5 huge resource of free software
    #6 user is free of scum sucking corporate greed
    #7 the support of a huge community that likes to help others because Linux is an operating system that truly is for the people.

  6. #21
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    I like it!

    Only driver I had to install was nvidia-new, but envy made it a breeze. Wireless worked through network-manager, just had to select my network and enter encryption key. Comes with everything a person would need to do basic useful tasks.

    Much easier than my last windows installation. I'm sure that a new user could figure it out with a short well written set of instructions.

    Although I am fond of painful CLI driven linux installs, it is a nice change of pace to let someone else do the thinking.
    Biostar TA 770/ X2 7850 BE
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  7. #22
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrNovi View Post
    Linux isn't even close to being ready for prime time yet, and probably never will be. Ubuntu 8.04 is a positive step, but it still has a long way to go to get there. It's still way to difficult for the average user to configure the system or install new software.
    It's not any more difficult, it's just different.

    Personally I think typing "yum install flash-plugin" at the command line is a LOT easier than trying to find the Adobe Flash download site, downloading the installer, working out were the heck Windows just saved it, finding it and running it, answering loads of obscure techie questions about what I want installed and where and having to click OK or Cancel to each one... you get the point - it's different... and for me that's easier

    I don't believe the average user (and I'm not talking the average PCPER user) can install or configure Windows either. The point is that once Linux is installed and configured by a system admin then it is no more difficult to use than Windows as most users only use web, email and office apps, and half of them really struggle to just use those. Those people aren't going to be able to perform system admin tasks in Windows any more than they could in Linux.

    PCs are sold as consumer items but they are not!
    Last edited by Ned Slider; 04-28-2008 at 04:30 AM.

  8. #23
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrNovi View Post
    Linux isn't even close to being ready for prime time yet.
    I am not going to disagree or agree with the above because I have no idea. However, this weekend I had my parents over who are a far far cry from being computer savvy. I had my laptop out in the family room with 8.04 on it, and I told them to grab the menu online for the place we were about to eat, and they had no trouble at all. A welcome new experience for me since I have to walk them through so much.

    To be fair, I think the FireFox brand recognition I have been pushing on them the past year or two came into play on the above scenario.
    Soy el caimán seis cincuenta.

  9. #24
    Joined
    Dec 2000
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    what else can I add, other than, I think there is some confusion maybe, b/c Windows software has predominantly been provided on removeable media, insert and watch it go, there has been an appearance of ease. That, however is on it's way out, many MS enterprise apps. are available ONLY via d/l, and they are working their way toward ALL apps. being that way, so what is the difference?

    Perhaps ONLY a web interface that launches an ActiveX control to install (YIKES!), or a CLI such as YUM SEARCH APP_NAME, YUM INSTALL APP_NAME?

    I think....maybe....Linux for home users, ehh perhaps not, however Linux in the corporate world, where many users are prohibited from installing anything by permissions anyway....yeah I can see it.
    Last edited by Jackal; 04-28-2008 at 09:44 AM.

  10. #25
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    This link hits on the topic we are discussing:

    http://contentconsumer.wordpress.com...my-girlfriend/

    Dude installs Ubuntu and gives his girlfriend a series of tasks to perform on it. It illustrates failures and success.
    Soy el caimán seis cincuenta.

  11. #26
    Joined
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    I couldn't help but comment on this statement from the above article.

    "Linux won’t truly be ready for the desktop until someone computer illiterate can sit down at a the computer and with little effort do what they want to do."

    Ah, she was not computer illiterate, she was Linux illiterate, but Windows "familiar".

    It's not a fair comparison to take someone that has been exposed to one method of doing things, then dump them into a new environment, and if they struggle a bit.....well "the environment is bad".

    Do we let people drive cars w/out training? On a less dramatic note, MOST jobs give you some sort of training, which typically includes PC type things, email, logons, IM's, etc.....

    A better idea, take a 4 year old, that has never used either, and see which they figure out easier!
    Last edited by Jackal; 04-28-2008 at 12:27 PM.

  12. #27
    Joined
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    Location
    Michigan
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    Hello, is there a "LIVE CD" for this that works? I only heard of 1 person who said he had a Live cd, but It DIDNT work ? Looking forward to trying a Live CD!
    Thanks for any Info >>>>>

  13. #28
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    Jackal

    Here's a test: download a copy of Nethack from the main site. That is, for each OS use an non-packaged version. Although I suppose it could be argued that the Windows .exe version is "packaged". Now install it. See how much easier it is in Windows? That's main reason why Linux fails against M$: installing new programs. Until Linux distros can agree a common format for package installation that a) they all agree on, no matter how small the distro, and b) can be run from a GUI without issue, then Linux will remain a toy for geeks. Non-computer geeks (that's 95%+ of those using computers) want everything to run via the GUI, so the command line is a complete no-no. When a Linux distro appears where you can't even get a command line, then it's ready for the mainstream and a head-to-head with M$. But not before. It pains me, but it's true.


    M

  14. #29
    Joined
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Michigan
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    248

    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    Jackal

    Here's a test: download a copy of Nethack from the main site. That is, for each OS use an non-packaged version. Although I suppose it could be argued that the Windows .exe version is "packaged". Now install it. See how much easier it is in Windows? That's main reason why Linux fails against M$: installing new programs. Until Linux distros can agree a common format for package installation that a) they all agree on, no matter how small the distro, and b) can be run from a GUI without issue, then Linux will remain a toy for geeks. Non-computer geeks (that's 95%+ of those using computers) want everything to run via the GUI, so the command line is a complete no-no. When a Linux distro appears where you can't even get a command line, then it's ready for the mainstream and a head-to-head with M$. But not before. It pains me, but it's true.


    M
    HMM-[Link] I get "This Page can not be displayed"??????

  15. #30
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    Re: Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron Final!

    To follow up on what Meridian said, the very thing that makes Linux so appealing to the Power Users is one of the main reasons that make it unappealing to the masses and prevents it from going mainstream. Too many options and too many differences between the different distros. It's 1984 all over again. Some of you older guys will remember all of the different GUI shells (GEM, GeoWorks, DesqViewX, Central Point Desktop, and Tandy DeskMate among others) competing with Windows for their share of the market. Windows eventually won out, not because it was better (in fact it was really one of the worst), but because of better marketing strategy and eventually became the STANDARD. Linux has no chance of becoming the standard because there are just too many different types of Linux that aren't compatible with each other in many ways.

    When it comes to real POWER Word Processing Professionals, the majority of them use WordPerfect. Nothing against OpenOffice which is a fine Word Processor, but it isn't even in the same ball park with WordPerfect. Since there is no WP for Linux that will actually run on current releases of Linux and WP doesn't run very well under Wine that shuts a good portion of that group out. I'm in daily contact with some of these people who would like nothing more than to switch to Linux, but they absolutely refuse to give up WP for the simple reason that they CAN'T do what they need with OpenOffice or any of the other Linux alternatives. I know that many of you will think that this is a small segment of computer users but it is really quite substantial. Many of these people are still using WP5.1 for Dos, WP 6.0/1 for Dos or Windows, or WP7 for Windows and haven't seen the need to downgrade to a newer version since the mid 90's (like Windows newer releases of WP have added a lot of gimmicks but few useful capabilities). Somebody find a way to run WP under Linux and you'll have a large number of knowledgeable Linux converts, but that just won't happen. Corel tried and couldn't do it even when they came out with their own version of Linux designed specifically for WP. And while the Corel people might not have been the sharpest knives in the drawer, the users themselves were quite adept at configuring and running Linux.

    Another nail in the coffin for Linux going mainstream is support. If you have a problem with your hardware you can contact the manufacturer for assistance IF you are running Windows. If you are running Linux most will say that their hardware isn't officially supported. Until that changes, Linux doesn't stand a chance. If you purchase a Wireless card for you computer to get online you insert the disk, install the driver, answer the prompts and you are online. All well and good IF you are running Windows. If you are running Linux you have to take that computer somewhere where you can get it online via a hard wired cable connection, attempt to download the necessary software and drivers, install them, then configure them WITH OUT any prompts. When you call your ISP for assistance they will more than likely tell you that they don't know how to configure it under Linux. If you call the Wireless Card manufacturer they will tell you that their product isn't supported. And you want to tell me that Linux is ready to go mainstream? Yeah, right.

    Finally, today's mobile computer user connects his Laptop to the internet via his cell phone or cell phone provided data card while traveling. I've yet to find one that you can use under Linux. They all work with Windows though yet Linux is supposed to be better? Not hardly.

    Linux is a niche OS that works quite well as long as it stays in that niche. Take it out of that niche and it's next to useless to the average computer user.

    Don
    R.I.P Brad (BWM). You will be missed.

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