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Thread: More bad news

  1. #16
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    Re: More bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by pimp my ride View Post
    this is all because of the UAW and idiots buying jap crap cars

    I happen to own 2 cars. 1 GM, and 1 Honda. Now don`t take this the wrong way. But it`s because of idiots buying gas guzzling cars, and SUVs when the price of oil is rising. We in North America have had our heads in our..... for far to long. We`ve ignored what the rest of the world has seen slowly coming. But we are so concerned about looking cool or wanting to impress our neighbours that we continued buying Navigators, Hummers, Camaros, Mustang GTs, etc. At least I got wiser before that, and bought a Civic, not a gas hog. Sure I don`t like paying more for my gas. But I`m laughing at all those that bought those gas pigs everytime I go to the pumps.


    On a side note. I hate to burst your bubble. But most jap cars are now made in North America. So when ppl. say don`t buy jap cars they are saying....."put your fellow American/Canadian out of work"

  2. #17
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    Re: More bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by pimp my ride View Post
    idiots buying jap crap cars
    I suppose it's crap if the sole measure of a car's value is 0-60 times and 1/4 mile runs (which heavily favour N. American offerings), but if the tradeoff is better fit and finish, reliability and resale value, the practical and sensible side of me will opt for the latter. Crap isn't restricted to Japanese vehicles (anyone who has driven an '08 Sebring or Fusion will attest to this, as I have). I suspect that anyone who is critical of competitors' offerings is formulating their opinions not on actual experience, but by nationalism. When one considers that a vehicle is perhaps the second largest investment one will make (right behind a house), the country of origin should be a factor in the decision process, but not the overriding factor. When you also consider that in any given year, more than 250 models from every automobile manufacturer is offered in showrooms , to truly stand out, your products have to be that much better than your rivals, and that hasn't been the case with most cars from the 'Big Three'. No one has a monopoly on crap; it's present in every single automobile manufacturer's lineup.

    with no GM here, this country will go down the shithole, unless you like paying $50 for a loaf of bread
    News flash: the country has been at the proverbial bottom of the bowl for quite some time, long before the subprime mortgage mess or Wagoner's press statement regarding the plants' closings; we're just getting around to making it part of the national discussion.

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  3. #18
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    Re: More bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivatePixel View Post
    I suppose it's crap if the sole measure of a car's value is 0-60 times and 1/4 mile runs (which heavily favour N. American offerings), but if the tradeoff is better fit and finish, reliability and resale value, the practical and sensible side of me will opt for the latter. Crap isn't restricted to Japanese vehicles (anyone who has driven an '08 Sebring or Fusion will attest to this, as I have). I suspect that anyone who is critical of competitors' offerings is formulating their opinions not on actual experience, but by nationalism. When one considers that a vehicle is perhaps the second largest investment one will make (right behind a house), the country of origin should be a factor in the decision process, but not the overriding factor. When you also consider that in any given year, more than 250 models from every automobile manufacturer is offered in showrooms , to truly stand out, your products have to be that much better than your rivals, and that hasn't been the case with most cars from the 'Big Three'. No one has a monopoly on crap; it's present in every single automobile manufacturer's lineup.


    News flash: the country has been at the proverbial bottom of the bowl for quite some time, long before the subprime mortgage mess or Wagoner's press statement regarding the plants' closings; we're just getting around to making it part of the national discussion.
    The bolded statement was the understatement of the 2000s.

    I really, honestly don't have much respect for people when they criticize Japan and/or their superior products.

    American cars, do not, by any stretch of the imagination look cooler than Japanese cars overall. Think Mitsubishi's cars.

    American cars cost at least 30% or more on average and they break and are in the shop all the time. Japanese cars last without issues for like 15-20 years. They cost less. Japanese companies are far more concerned about giving the consumer what they want than trying to make a fast unjust buck like the ultra-competitive American car companies do.

    Notice how 60% of the same model of american cars will be lemons while the other 40% will be fine.

    Chrysler made the grand caravan with the same exact engine as the regular one, and depending upon whether or not the particular engine used could handle it, some people, most people, were unlucky and stuck with a lemon.

    think about the 96 jeep grand cherokee recalls.

    We owe the world to japan for our cars, as they're trying to save us money in every possible way. (now thru MUCH lower gas prices)

    Don't ever anyone make fun of Japanese people, or their awesome, economical products.

    I can only hope that all of the Japanese cars made not in Japan will always and forever meet the timeless quality and reliability of the ones made in Japan. The plants not in japan need to emulate japan's genius perfectly, if they're capable of it.

    Think the x360 vs. the ps3 as an example. Sony responded to complaints, MS hasn't or was too late to. The PS3 is ultimately cheaper than the x360 also.

  4. #19
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    Re: More bad news

    All their profits are in SUVs and pickup trucks. What would you have done??
    Factoid: GM are saddled with a $1500 uplift on each car [in order to pay for idiotic union based retirement plans].

    This is nothing more than a bitchslap of a reality check for the Big 2. [Chrysler is done already - they just don't know it]

    Spare me the tears...........we will survive this!
    -TMack

    "Forgive everyone for everything"

  5. #20
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    Re: More bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by vote ron paul View Post
    The bolded statement was the understatement of the 2000s.

    I really, honestly don't have much respect for people when they criticize Japan and/or their superior products.

    American cars, do not, by any stretch of the imagination look cooler than Japanese cars overall. Think Mitsubishi's cars.

    American cars cost at least 30% or more on average and they break and are in the shop all the time. Japanese cars last without issues for like 15-20 years. They cost less. Japanese companies are far more concerned about giving the consumer what they want than trying to make a fast unjust buck like the ultra-competitive American car companies do.

    Notice how 60% of the same model of american cars will be lemons while the other 40% will be fine.

    Chrysler made the grand caravan with the same exact engine as the regular one, and depending upon whether or not the particular engine used could handle it, some people, most people, were unlucky and stuck with a lemon.

    think about the 96 jeep grand cherokee recalls.

    We owe the world to japan for our cars, as they're trying to save us money in every possible way. (now thru MUCH lower gas prices)

    Don't ever anyone make fun of Japanese people, or their awesome, economical products.

    I can only hope that all of the Japanese cars made not in Japan will always and forever meet the timeless quality and reliability of the ones made in Japan. The plants not in japan need to emulate japan's genius perfectly, if they're capable of it.

    Think the x360 vs. the ps3 as an example. Sony responded to complaints, MS hasn't or was too late to. The PS3 is ultimately cheaper than the x360 also.


    Now...now, don`t get your panties bunched up.


    Japanese products made in North America meet the same standards as Japenese made.


    And how many cars have you owned to be this knowledgable?


    Please keep the old video game regurgatated crap to the gaming forum. This is a thread about the automotive industry.

  6. #21
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    Re: More bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse View Post
    I've been told it's in the $15's and $20's in parts of Europe.

    Going to flight school these days? wow. I learned when it was $39/hr for
    a C-150. There's no way I could afford it now. Not to mention the blood
    bath that the industry is going through.

    Good luck.

    Which school are you going to?

    CE
    I believe it. It's extremely expensive now. $105/hr aircraft rental these days. I just don't want to drive a truck anymore, that's all....

    As for the school.... It's a little one here at Oakland County, (PTK), in metro Detroit. Little place, but I'm VERY impressed. I should get my private license by the end of August. It'll go a lot quicker after that. I want to go all the way to CFI, CFII, and MEI....

  7. #22
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    Re: More bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by vote ron paul View Post
    The bolded statement was the understatement of the 2000s.

    I really, honestly don't have much respect for people when they criticize Japan and/or their superior products.
    Every automaker has a crap vehicle from one time or another, whether its poor powertrain, poor wiring, poor styling they've all been there at some point.

    Talk about Mitsubishi, I've owned plenty, bought a new 91 3000gt vr-4 in 1991 and I still have the service receipts for something like $12000 yes $12000 in warranty work they performed on the car. I loved the styling of the car but you name the part and it failed at one point or another, turbos, intercoolers, transmission, body panels peeling, cats plugging up, oil leaks a plenty, etc. Needless to say that car was traded after the warranty expired in 1994 for a new Firebird Formula which I beat the hell out of for 5 years trouble free before hydro planing it off the interstate which was totaled by the insurance company since it had been submerged in water.

    Lets not forget about Mitsubishi's warranty debacle a few years back which about put them under and led to all their current economy cars with the exception of the evo. If you know anybody with 2g turbo eclipses you've probably heard the dreaded phrase "crankwalk", who knows how many thousands of engines with soft cranks which galled and ate up crank thrust bearing surfaces up and subsequently the block which means wasted engine. If you where fortunate it happened before your warranty ran out but after the warranty is up its a big headache waiting to happen.

    Anyways I could go on and on about mitsubishi's poor reliability but I still own three of them regardless, 97 spyder gst, 91 eagle talon awd, 90 laser rst so I'm not bias'd against mitsubishi but I very aware of their reliability issues with the cars I have owned.

    My daily commuter/driver for the past 6 years has been a Ford F150 with 5.4 and intercooled Vortech supercharger setup and this truck has been absolutely trouble free other than one Ford recall for a brake pressure switch.

    Anyways my point was there are good and bad models from all brands, makes and models, american, german, and japanese.

    Its a very sad thing for the people who are loosing jobs no doubt about it but its either trim the fat and lean up or sink the ship as a whole and close down shop all together which means many more job losses. The economy is in the crapper at the moment and is a cycle that seems to repeat every so many years we just don't always pay as much attention. At least from what I can tell allot of folks that are loosing their jobs as part of the union are getting buyouts and early retirements rather than just a boot to the hind quarters.
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  8. #23
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    Re: More bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by TMack409 View Post
    All their profits are in SUVs and pickup trucks. What would you have done??
    Factoid: GM are saddled with a $1500 uplift on each car [in order to pay for idiotic union based retirement plans].
    This is by far the biggest problem GM is facing now. The unions will end up putting the final nail in their coffin if they keep hammering away too. Just look at the last strike that just ended a few months ago. That one cost GM around $2 BILLION dollars alone! To be striking in times like this just goes to show how out of touch unions are with reality.

  9. #24
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    Re: More bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by highoctane View Post
    Every automaker has a crap vehicle from one time or another, whether its poor powertrain, poor wiring, poor styling they've all been there at some point.

    Talk about Mitsubishi, I've owned plenty, bought a new 91 3000gt vr-4 in 1991 and I still have the service receipts for something like $12000 yes $12000 in warranty work they performed on the car. I loved the styling of the car but you name the part and it failed at one point or another, turbos, intercoolers, transmission, body panels peeling, cats plugging up, oil leaks a plenty, etc. Needless to say that car was traded after the warranty expired in 1994 for a new Firebird Formula which I beat the hell out of for 5 years trouble free before hydro planing it off the interstate which was totaled by the insurance company since it had been submerged in water.

    Lets not forget about Mitsubishi's warranty debacle a few years back which about put them under and led to all their current economy cars with the exception of the evo. If you know anybody with 2g turbo eclipses you've probably heard the dreaded phrase "crankwalk", who knows how many thousands of engines with soft cranks which galled and ate up crank thrust bearing surfaces up and subsequently the block which means wasted engine. If you where fortunate it happened before your warranty ran out but after the warranty is up its a big headache waiting to happen.

    Anyways I could go on and on about mitsubishi's poor reliability but I still own three of them regardless, 97 spyder gst, 91 eagle talon awd, 90 laser rst so I'm not bias'd against mitsubishi but I very aware of their reliability issues with the cars I have owned.

    My daily commuter/driver for the past 6 years has been a Ford F150 with 5.4 and intercooled Vortech supercharger setup and this truck has been absolutely trouble free other than one Ford recall for a brake pressure switch.

    Anyways my point was there are good and bad models from all brands, makes and models, american, german, and japanese.

    Its a very sad thing for the people who are loosing jobs no doubt about it but its either trim the fat and lean up or sink the ship as a whole and close down shop all together which means many more job losses. The economy is in the crapper at the moment and is a cycle that seems to repeat every so many years we just don't always pay as much attention. At least from what I can tell allot of folks that are loosing their jobs as part of the union are getting buyouts and early retirements rather than just a boot to the hind quarters.
    Mitsu engines are probably the biggest POS's on the road. I don't know how many 3-5 year old Mitsu's I've been behind that are already smoking! It appears to be oil too, so I can only assume they use crap piston rings.

    My Nissan's have been bulletproof for me. Case in point, Nissan just introduced the new '09 Maxima, and during the introduction for it, mentioned that 4 out of every 5 3rd generation Maxima's are still on the road today. That's very impressive, considering the last 3rd gen. was built in 1994!

  10. #25
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    Re: More bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by vote ron paul View Post
    Don't ever anyone make fun of Japanese people, or their awesome, economical products.
    Then why has their economy been in a recession since about 1990?

  11. #26
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    Re: More bad news

    I don't have a problem with jap cars or the fact they are made here maybe the fact the money regardless of where the car is made still goes outta the country for the most part. Thats the problem with them I have.

    Don't ever anyone make fun of Japanese people, or their awesome, economical products.
    How about we make fun of folks with compulsive behavioral problems instead?



    or their superior products.

    I dont agree they make a superior product over usa based products either maybe 15 years ago but not now.

  12. #27
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    Re: More bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip View Post
    Mitsu engines are probably the biggest POS's on the road. I don't know how many 3-5 year old Mitsu's I've been behind that are already smoking! It appears to be oil too, so I can only assume they use crap piston rings.
    The smoke in probably 90% of those would be from the vavle seals on in the cyl head being bad or just floating on the valve stem because it came off the valve guide.

    The engines are tough as you can get, my AWD is putting out enough power to run 11.5 in the 1/4 which isn't too shabby. Sure Mitsu engines have their qwerks but most manufacturers have their qwerks even nissan. If you tinker with cars just the same as computers you will find everything man made will have qwerks and absolutely none are perfect across the board.

    In my opinion the worst thing that ever happened to american cars was the 80's, what a horrible decade of vehicles IMO. From 90's on they found their groove and really delivered a much much better product.
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  13. #28
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    Re: More bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip View Post
    Mitsu engines are probably the biggest POS's on the road. I don't know how many 3-5 year old Mitsu's I've been behind that are already smoking! It appears to be oil too, so I can only assume they use crap piston rings.

    My Nissan's have been bulletproof for me. Case in point, Nissan just introduced the new '09 Maxima, and during the introduction for it, mentioned that 4 out of every 5 3rd generation Maxima's are still on the road today. That's very impressive, considering the last 3rd gen. was built in 1994!
    Quote Originally Posted by Enmore View Post
    Then why has their economy been in a recession since about 1990?
    Quote Originally Posted by /\/\adGamer View Post
    I don't have a problem with jap cars or the fact they are made here maybe the fact the money regardless of where the car is made still goes outta the country for the most part. Thats the problem with them I have.



    How about we make fun of folks with compulsive behavioral problems instead?






    I dont agree they make a superior product over usa based products either maybe 15 years ago but not now.
    Yes, I'd rather you make fun of "folks" with ocd. The anti-japanese need to stop being anti-japanese. I can start another thread if you'd like to list all of the virtues of the japanese that americans blatantly lack.

    There economy is better than ours. I'm no expert on recessions, if they really are in a recession they either are b/c they have a much higher standard to meet to not be on "recession" or because their companies sell things at much better prices, or maybe both. They go to school all the time and it pays off. They also don't waste money Clinton style on unnecessary battles that ultimately will back-fire on us. The aforementioned should explain why our economy is worse than their's despite the fact they're in a "recession," which obviously means very little because we're in awful shape and have no indication it won't just get worse, and we haven't been declared in a "recession." The "recession" Japan is in is probably good by our standards.

    My dad has a Nissan 95 maxima that he bought in the spring of 95, and he's still driving it and hasn't had call a cab or my mom to come pick him up.

    About mitsubishi's they have great design, and yes I know that most them are lemons as my mom told me, but their car division is the one and only japanese car company that produces lemons. Nissan, Toyota, and Honda don't produce lemons like GM, Ford, and Chrysler do and there's no debating that. QC is much worse for american cars than other companies around the world.

    Also, the american car companies don't deserve the money they make bad products and the higher-up people get way too much money by charging 2x as much as a japanese car that actually will last 10 years or a lot longer. and their lay-offs are justified, b/c those people can go to college and get a better job. I accept lay-offs because this is a capitalist society and more importantly, I really don't feel sorry for those who are laid-off from american car companies b/c if they had a better job, then the economy wouldn't be so poor in the first place. Many of those people are creative and smart, and if they weren't in a factory all day just pushing a button, then I think we'd might have some new inventions, or better products that would boost the economy. Blue collar people are blue-collar by choice ultimately, because they can go to college and ask for financial help from a friend forever or a family member that they're close to if they're close to any, get a degree and become a professional. nearly everyone has the same chance to go from blue-collar to professional. It's not anyone else's fault but the american car companies. We don't want to be like the EU economically, do we?
    Last edited by vote ron paul; 06-04-2008 at 03:48 PM.

  14. #29
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    Re: More bad news

    Sheesh. The way you talk vrp it's as if we should be building temples for the sole purpose of worshiping the Japanese in. They're only human, and their cars HAVE been declining in quality during the last few years. Toyota has had a few problems with the newer Tundras and Camry's for example.

    I have 2 Maximas, a 1991 and a 2002. The '02 just doesn't seem built as well to me. The engine and transmission are still great, but the body just isn't as squeak and rattle free as the older one. I blame it on everyone wanting to pay the same for cars nowadays as they did 15 years ago. Of course the car's also have to have standard airbags front and rear, ABS, traction control, auto climate control, etc, etc.

  15. #30
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    Re: More bad news

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip View Post
    They're only human, and their cars HAVE been declining in quality during the last few years. Toyota has had a few problems with the newer Tundras and Camry's for example.
    I know this point has been raised in a few automotive forums I frequent, and I think I know what may be a contributing factor behind this: the quality of the workforce at the respective manufacturing facilities, more specifically, the one in Alabama (responsible for the V6 and V8 engines), the one in Texas (handles assembly of the Tundra), and to a lesser extent, the one in Kentucky (handles the Camry assembly): they're not as skilled/educated as those in other N. American facilities, and this is reflected in the final products. There have also been quality issues with suppliers, but once they're identified, are addressed in a timely manner.

    Toyota would have preferred a larger foothold in the Midwest rather than the southern states because the potential applicant pool is better educated (Toyota settled on Tupelo, Mississippi when it was unable to secure a proper location in Ohio (which is essentially Honda territory, at least in central Ohio) that was close to the railways for transporting supplies and vehicles, they already had a facility in Indiana, and they wanted to avoid any state where the UAW had a strong presence, thus ruling out Michigan from consideration).

    Although the majority of these jobs are blue collar by definition, you still need a pool of workers for administrative and managerial duties, and the applicants for these positions in the south don't have the same credentials as those of their midwestern / northern neighbours.

    A true patriot is a lover of his country who rebukes and does not excuse its sins.
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    May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion. - President Dwight D. Eisenhower

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