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  1. #16
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    Reid fails. 51-43.
    That means there are 43 people elected to the Senate that don't know sheet from shinola.

  2. #17
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    IMHO there are a few points that bear repeating.

    1) If there is blame to assign to our politicians with respect to (lack of) development of energy alternatives, it falls to both parties.

    2) Addressing energy policy is sorta like the immigration problem. It is multi-faceted. Ultimately it must address demand for petroleum-based energy, overall consumption, new technology, etc. Much like immigration, our politicians are largely sitting on their hands whining about the multiple issues and claiming they can't make headway on comprehensive energy policy. On this front, it's pretty darned clear that we could make a dent in costs by allowing certain things to proceed, like developing off-shore and ANWAR, building additional refining capacity, etc. In this aspect the Democrats are clearly the obstructionists. No, the things the Republicans want to do would not provide any long-term solution but they would ease the current pain. See item 1 regarding responsibility for long-term solutions

    3) Regarding oil company profit, it should be viewed in the context of profit margin. Even today, with record net profits, their profit margins fall behind those of several other industries. If "Company A" has a profit of $10M on $20M in sales no one takes notice, yet if "Oil Company A" has profit of $10B on sales of $100B, people are up in arms. In the former, the company earned a dollar for every two dollars sold while in the latter the company earned a dollar for every ten dollars sold. According to our Congress, the former is just fine and dandy while the latter is not.

    The very notion that our elected clowns in Congress can determine some number, beyond which profit is obscene, is laughable.

  3. #18
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    ^^^ You make great points, myv65.

    There seems to be an ever increasing problem when our politicians tackle "problems". They are ever increasing.

    Instead of tackling the price of fuel, they've wrapped it into the grander, longer term reliance on oil problem and the man made global warming scenario, so they can't get moved forward on the present problem of fuel prices and oil exploration in the US. The notion of not having to rely on foreign oil has gone by the wayside and will remain so as long as the thinking is that oil can be replaced by wind and solar power.

    They did the same with illegal immigration. Instead of sealing borders, they came up with a grander "comprehensive" scheme and in turn, didn't accomplish anything since the problem was identified in the Reagan years.

    At least they seem to have solved (or at least have begun to solve) the problem of losing money in the Senate cafeterias... by letting private contractors run the food service.

  4. #19
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    At least they seem to have solved (or at least have begun to solve) the problem of losing money in the Senate cafeterias... by letting private contractors run the food service.

    Not to worry Dutch.. I'm sure if the Senate cafeterias start to turn a profit the owners of the company running it will be hauled out in front of some committee to explain themselves. You know.. with the price of food going up the Senate cafeterias need to know that there is a limit on how much profit they can take in this economy....

    As to the rest from both you and MV.. agree. Our witless leaders seem ill equipped to comprehend that the solution at the very least needs to be a 2 pronged approach. Ensure future supplies of oils AND developing new technologies.

    Trying to force oil companies to explain their profits.. or mandate where they spend their profits.. or simply tax the heck out of their profits is much akin to a "fools gold" solution. Just stop it already. Go sharpen your pencils and come back with a REAL plan.

    Drill away.. exploit the resources we have until a viable solution presents itself. Stop these stupid a$$ pieces of "feel good" legislation like ethanol mandates which do nothing but harm to the populace they are supposed to be saving. People know a good deal when they see it... build a better mouse trap.. folks will buy it. Same game with energy.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  5. #20
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    ^^^ Its just really silly.

    And I was wrong on the vote. Reid needed 60 yea votes and only got 51. So the majority of the Senate don't know sheet from shinola.

    But here's a curiosity... Reid voted nay, with the Republicans. Whasupwidat?

  6. #21
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?



    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  7. #22
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    at least we're not in europe with their fuel prices right?

    but on a more related note to our issue in the US.... I saw today a commercial advertising a car from honda i wasn't expecting to see in a production model so soon... a Fuel Cell powered vehicle. Now THAT is a step in the right direction. I give Honda major props for stepping out on the limb first to make the first production vehicle that's only output is water. sure, it's no corvette and i'm sure it's not going to have throw you back in your seat acceleration but hey, i can drink what comes out of this car....

    fuel cells combined with ultra capacitors are a very good solution. the fuel cells power the car cleanly and the ultra capacitors recapture a good deal of the energy lost normally during breaking. These are both technologies that i read a number of years ago in popular science and i remember thinking to myself, holy cow... that's sweet. so sweet, why aren't we already doing that.
    Last edited by Captain O Hair; 06-11-2008 at 07:36 AM.

  8. #23
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?


  9. #24
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    Let's cut the crap about both parties being responsible for our country not tapping our own supplies... at least today...
    GOP Rep. John Peterson’s latest bid to lift domestic offshore drilling restrictions, which I blogged earlier today here, was killed this afternoon by the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Interior and the Environment. It was a straight, party line vote.

    Dems against:

    Chair: Norman D. Dicks (WA)
    James P. Moran (VA)
    Maurice D. Hinchey (NY)
    John W. Olver (MA)
    Alan B. Mollohan (WV)
    Tom Udall (NM)
    Ben Chandler (KY)
    Ed Pastor (AZ)
    Dave Obey (WI), Ex Officio

    Republicans for:

    Ranking Member:
    Todd Tiahrt (KS)
    John E. Peterson (PA)
    Jo Ann Emerson (MO)
    Virgil H. Goode, Jr. (VA)
    Ken Calvert (CA)
    Jerry Lewis (CA), Ex Officio
    That's the entire committee... straight down party lines and it stifles the state's desires:
    A 27-year-old federal moratorium has prevented offshore drilling in most coastal waters except parts of the Gulf of Mexico.

    Virginia lawmakers have expressed interest in pursuing drilling, particularly for natural gas.

    Peterson, who is retiring next year, said offshore drilling could provide enough oil to replace Middle East oil imports for 35 years. He said the plan would also yield an 18-year supply of natural gas.

    “There is no valid reason for Congress to continue keeping Americans from the offshore resources they own,” Peterson said.

    But Democrats, who control Congress, said offshore drilling would have no immediate effect on the price of gasoline and would do little to lower the world price of oil.

    “We are kidding ourselves, as we routinely do in this town, if we think we can drill our way out of this problem,” said Rep. Dave Obey, D-Wis.

    …”The American people are going to have a lot to say about this,” said Rep. Jerry Lewis, R-Calif., the ranking Republican on the full House Appropriations Committee.
    So the ding dongs in Washington know what's best for Virginia.

  10. #25
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    ^^^ Please note that Dave Obey and his Democrat cronies don't understand that natural gas and oil are different things. Just a pesky detail.

  11. #26
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    ^^^ Please note that Dave Obey and his Democrat cronies don't understand that natural gas and oil are different things. Just a pesky detail.
    Would not make a difference if they did... thats a fact jack.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  12. #27
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    I remember watching C-Span at least 8 years ago. The senate was having some kind of debate on Alaska drilling. Of course back then I almost changed the channel as gas was so cheap, but anyway. The Republicans were for it and were trying to make a case for it, stating that the area that was to be drilled in Alaska was to take no more space than the head of a needle on the map of Alaska. They felt that there was enough untapped oil there to help wean us off of foreign oil.

    The Democrats were against any drilling stating that there simply was not enough oil up there to make it economically feasible, much less environmentally. They stated that the oil in Alaska wouldn't supply the US with nearly enough to even make a dent in our yearly consumption. I watched this for about 30-45 minutes before I realized they would never come to a general consensus.

    Now I really wonder who is right in this argument? I'll admit that I haven't done much research into this topic, but from what I've read, the oil companies themselves don't feel like Alaska has much potential left anymore. They feel like they've hit the law of diminishing returns, and that the oil that is left is in very remote, offshore places.

    At $150-200 a barrel though? This changes things. I wonder how that same debate would go on C-Span today?

  13. #28
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrispycrunch View Post
    It's the fault of many things:
    1) Consumers before 2008: they created a demand for SUVs for the last 5+ years
    2) China and India: not sure how well this argument holds, because these countries still use coal and not as much oil as we all think
    3) Speculation: futures market for oil
    4) Weak US Dollar - I believe this is the fundamental issue for the price for oil: investors are placing their store of value. Until the US tidies its spending (iraq, tax cuts, bonus rebate cheques), pressure on USD, and hence oil, will continue
    I also think the largest factor in the high price of oil is the weak US dollar. And I won't pretend to understand all the reasons for that! However, I do think that spending must be curbed. Whether it be the US govt (as a matter of policy and effect on inflation/value of the dollar) or you and I (as a matter of personal fiscal responsibility).

    Taxation is also a big part of this. We've had years of an unfavorable environment (compared to other countries) regarding business. We've also seen the dollar fall against rising deficits and increased foreign debt. I'm sure all of this is connected (and connected to a lot of other things as well) but surely some economic genius can find a solution.
    Tyan S5397 2x X5450 16GB - SuperMicro H8DCI 2x 275 8GB - Iwill DK8X 2x Opteron 250 2GB


    Take a Kid FISHING!

  14. #29
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    I've heard that 40% of the problem of inflated gas prices (not 40% of the price) is due to the weak dollar which, I hear, we can thank the continual lowering of interest rates for. Countries that use dollars continually have to pay more and more of them to get the same amount of fuel.

    I heard about 50 cents of the current inflated price of gas is due to speculation in the markets.

    ANWR Exploration
    House Republicans: 91% Supported
    House Democrats: 86% Opposed

    Coal-to-Liquid
    House Republicans: 97% Supported
    House Democrats: 78% Opposed

    Oil Shale Exploration
    House Republicans: 90% Supported
    House Democrats: 86% Opposed

    Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) Exploration
    House Republicans: 81% Supported
    House Democrats: 83% Opposed

    Refinery Increased Capacity
    House Republicans: 97% Supported
    House Democrats: 96% Opposed
    Wow, I actually heard that Republicans would use line of "reasoning" to try and blame Dems for the current problem and sure as heck there it is! Makes a great "sound bite" though.

    My video "tribute" to Armed Assault.

  15. #30
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    Re: The high price of oil is *whose* fault?

    US to get first new refinery for over 30 years:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,363121,00.html

    Set to open in 2014.

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