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  1. #31
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    Quote Originally Posted by TBird761 View Post
    All I'm hearing from you is "I don't like the concept and anyone who disagrees with me be damned!"

    My post, the one right above yours, discusses exactly how smoothness can be measured. It isn't just a made up thing that can only be felt.
    doesn't matter if you agree or not, there's nothing to back any of this up, if there was even a thread of truth there'd be something out there from a legitimate source to say so.

    if there was smoothness to be found why have i not noticed it between my two rigs?

    it's obviously not something anyone without super human smoothness detection can notice, or it's something else in your systems accounting for any smoothness you found.
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  2. #32
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    Right, because you are a perfect representation of Joe Everyman and Jane Anygirl. If you can't notice a difference than anyone else who does must be mistaken or lying.

    You still seem to have overlooked my post where I describe the difference between work performed and smoothness. They are not the same thing nor are their respective measures interchangeable.

    In my post I didn't even claim that the AMD is magically smoother. I attributed the increase in perceived smoothness to the extra cores--not design superiority or magic.

    So what's your angle here? A logical debater you most certainly are not.
    Last edited by TBird761; 06-16-2008 at 04:50 PM.
    Sometimes I feel like I'm becoming a dinosaur.

  3. #33
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    Quote Originally Posted by TBird761 View Post
    Right, because you are a perfect representation of Joe Everyman and Jane Anygirl. If you can't notice a difference than anyone else who does must be mistaken or lying.

    You still seem to have overlooked my post where I describe the difference between work performed and smoothness. They are not the same thing nor are their respective measures interchangeable.

    In my post I didn't even claim that the AMD is magically smoother. I attributed the increase in perceived smoothness to the extra cores--not design superiority or magic.

    So what's your angle here? A logical debater you most certainly are not.
    then you're obviously arguing something entirely different and it has no bearing on what everyone else was talking about and i'm unsure as to why any of what you argued has to do with the current debate nor why you seem to imply it does while also implying that it does not.

    extra cores aside (of course extra cores are going to make a difference, no one ever argued otherwise) my experience seems to be a bit more apples to apples than yours since i have a dual core amd as well as a dual core intel.

    so you seeing more smoothness going from a dual core intel to a quad core amd is a bit obvious.

    i use both intel and amd dual core systems on a daily basis and notice nill!

    i represent some who actually has ground to stand on for the current debate, i use both systems daily, you used one system then went to another system while doubling your cores. i really don't see how that's a valid comparison, but hey, whatever.

    obviously your situation doesn't exactly apply to the current debate, since you comparing a dual core to a quad as well as admitting that you saw no extra smoothness. i'm really wondering why you're playing devils advocate at this point.
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  4. #34
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    I have always noticed that amd's cpu's have been smooth while intel's have not.

    It's due to amd's design, although i don't know exactly what it is about amd's design, but they have always seemed much smoother than any of intel's processors i've used in my whole life. Every single intel cpu i used was choppy, no amd cpu i've ever used wasn't 100% smooth. The intel processors may perform faster and can do more operations faster, but that has nothing to do with smoothness like many have said.

    it's not due to the number of cores, though, because the athlon xp i had was smoother when multi-tasking and navigating windows and the internet in general than a pentium 4 i used frequently, and also 2 core 2 duo systems i had.

    smoothness and performance are entirely different from each other.

  5. #35
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    well if VRP disagrees then i KNOW i must be right
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  6. #36
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    Quote Originally Posted by vote ron paul View Post
    I have always noticed that amd's cpu's have been smooth while intel's have not.

    It's due to amd's design, although i don't know exactly what it is about amd's design, but they have always seemed much smoother than any of intel's processors i've used in my whole life. Every single intel cpu i used was choppy, no amd cpu i've ever used wasn't 100% smooth. The intel processors may perform faster and can do more operations faster, but that has nothing to do with smoothness like many have said.

    it's not due to the number of cores, though, because the athlon xp i had was smoother when multi-tasking and navigating windows and the internet in general than a pentium 4 i used frequently, and also 2 core 2 duo systems i had.

    smoothness and performance are entirely different from each other.
    Well, your 'experiences' with P4 and Athlon xp are totally opposite to those of mine. Not to mention they are illogical. Under WindowsXP the hyperthreading P4s certainly seemed 'snappier' (faster and more responsive, even 'smoother' if you prefer that) than the AthlonXP. This in normal desktop use in a simple multitasking environment.

  7. #37
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    Though the correlation is yet to be established, the superior memory performance and lower overall latency of an AMD system may be what is the driving force behind the 'smoothness' that the AMD system seems to exhibit.

    And this 'smoothness' is not a figment of my imagination either - though it is quite possible it is restricted to only my particular systems. My four AMD systems, my C2D system, my CoreDuo Laptop and the 50 or so machines - all Intels - at work. That may be a really small sample.

    Symptoms include delayed starting of games, desktop applications, some lag, slow startup, and responsiveness. And the installs on these are roughly the same age - if anything the AMD system I mainly use for browsing and desktop apps has a much older install that's been imaged across multiple drives.

    In any case, benchmarks are only indicative - real-world performance and performance difference is much more meaningful IMO. And yes the Intels (at least C2D vs X2) do deliver a few more FPS and encode media a lot quicker, but the AMDs just feel a little more responsive when you're hanging around the desktop.

    It's like comparing a city runabout to a 'Stang I guess. One is just quicker around corners and off the blocks, but the other has the brute power on longer runs.

    Like I said, horses for courses.

  8. #38
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    everything you mention sounds very hard drive related and not limited to the cpu at all.
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  9. #39
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    Brandito, I do not understand your tactics here. You have ignored parts of my posts that do not fit your agenda and are attacking my credibility for presenting a balanced viewpoint. You have become quite personal in your attacks. Why am I not allowed to voice my opinion in this thread? Must your observations be an ultimate authority on this subject? I do not believe the current course of discussion is well served by these tactics of yours.

    Do not mistake my observations on one machine for my observations on all, either. I have used both Intel and AMD quad core systems as well as dual and single core ones. My previously posted points still stand that I personally can tell a difference and favor my AMD quad setup over any AMD dual or single core as well as Intel single, dual, and quad core. The reasons for the better experience do not have to be specifically attributed to a single component to be felt. Likewise, we do not have to understand what about water causes wetness to feel wet when it is on us. It is simply wet.

    My only other point is that performance is often mistaken for smoothness--that people will for example look to framerate as a way to tell how smoothly their game will run. This is a fallacy for the reasons I have described before. Smoothness is not the same thing as raw work performed, and we should not be treating it as such. No matter how much you may try to insult me or damage my credibility in the matter, the core issue will remain. Just as pie and cake are both sweet deserts and often served in slices but are not the same food, smoothness and work performed are both measures of performance that can be applied to a system but are also not the same thing. It should be obvious to any rational adult, but somehow we are missing each other here.

    I don't know if you've understood me and just want to continue fighting or what, but I don't. This is my final attempt to try and communicate with you as one adult to another. Failing this, I will just leave you be since it will have become obvious to me that you do not wish to acknowledge the potential for my claims to be correct even when they do not necessarily conflict with your own. It will at that point have become obviously personal and I do not wish to promote that kind of action here.
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  10. #40
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    no one is attacking you or insulting you, it insults me that you claim i am.

    again what your talking about is completely off topic from what i'm talking about, there is nothing to argue between us. you said you went from a dual core to a quad so that would likely account for the difference, which i can agree with.

    what i'm arguing is this whole smoothness thing is a bunch of junk, never experienced it myself and no credible sources have ever reported on it, nor has amd ever touted their apparent smoothness openly, therefore it sounds more like fallacy to me, sorry, i need a little more than just the good word of even the most trusted forum member, if it can be explained technically then fine.

    this isn't even about defending one company over the other, it's about preeching fact and not placibo effects.

    again, nothing against you or anyone else, it's the 'smoothness' talk i have an issue with, people claim it exists but offer up nothing as explanation or anything other than their word.

    well my word is it doesn't exist on either my intel or amd machines.
    Last edited by Brandito; 06-17-2008 at 02:02 PM.
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  11. #41
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandito View Post
    no one is attacking you or insulting you, it insults me that you claim i am.

    again what your talking about is completely off topic from what i'm talking about, there is nothing to argue between us. you said you went from a dual core to a quad so that would likely account for the difference, which i can agree with.

    what i'm arguing is this whole smoothness thing is a bunch of junk, never experienced it myself and no credible sources have ever reported on it, nor has amd ever touted their apparent smoothness openly, therefore it sounds more like fallacy to me, sorry, i need a little more than just the good word of even the most trusted forum member, if it can be explained technically then fine.

    this isn't even about defending one company over the other, it's about preeching fact and not placibo effects.

    again, nothing against you or anyone else, it's the 'smoothness' talk i have an issue with, people claim it exists but offer up nothing as explanation or anything other than their word.

    well my word is it doesn't exist on either my intel or amd machines.
    i already asked you if you wanted to come over. you say its hard drive related well when i was using the phenom as my main processor, i had the exact same setup i had when i got the intel quad. the only obvious changes were the fact that i was using an intel motherboard and processor, every other piece of hardware was the exact same (fresh installs of xp in both cases on a wd 640aaks hard drive). and when i open things on the intel quad there is some lag that i never experienced on the amd quad. i have not ever mentioned games because they seem to run the same to me and 1 or 2 fps doesnt really make a difference, even in crysis averaging only 30 or so i havent noticed any lagginess at all on either system, in other games like cod4 and fear i went from averaging about 70-75 fps to 75-80 and i noticed no difference at all (i use fraps when i play and i run the "benchmark"), just in general computing the phenom doesnt lag, this may be because of the on die memory controller or it could just be the drivers from the intel chipset, i cant really tell you which it is cause i have only used the newest chipset drivers for my intel motherboard. I'm not saying im unhappy with the intel, cause it kicks the amd's ass in terms of what my pc does all of the time (folding) i am happy with both systems, its just like i metioned it seems smoother to me, you may not believe me and i honestly dont really care whether or not you do, but that is how i feel, take it or leave it. We'll never be able to do an exact comparison unless one day a motherboard manufacturer for some reason decides to run an amd and intel chipset on the same board, which i never see happening.




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  12. #42
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    maybe brandito doesn't want to notice that amd systems are smoother, i don't know.

    but the fact of the matter is that the symptoms described several posts before this are not imaginary. there's a difference in smoothness between amd and intel that's as big as the difference between the super nes and arcade versions of mortal kombat 1-3.

    Some people probably don't realize because they don't care, but i certainly do, and it's not good for my mental health these days either, and i guess some people may have to look for the difference, but it's there. nothing to do with the number of cores (which affects performance, not smoothness.)

    if amd cpu's have an integrated memory controller that reduces latency, then it certainly serves a big purpose, which is probably that it's what makes amd cpu's smoother than intel ones.

    it's certainly more of a difference than mk3 on the ps1 versus an mk3 arcade machine. that was kind of an understatement.

    besides, amd has to make their cpu's unique from intel in several ways, or else both wouldn't exist, unless amd was a company that made generic faulty intel-designed or intel-rip off processors, like my noobish friend thinks they do. It makes me mad too, because he's the most stubborn person i know, and he wears a shirt sometimes that says something like "I'm not opinionated, i'm always right," yet at the same time he thought his windows me machine was crashing because it didn't have an intel pentium, and at the same time he admits he knows nothing about computers, yet insists that his machine is crashing because he has an amd processor when me and another friend, both of us who "grew up on doom" keep on saying how much better amd is.

  13. #43
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    Placebo effect, if the computer fairy swapped your hardware in the middle of the night you without you knowing you probably wouldn't even notice a difference.
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  14. #44
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    Quote Originally Posted by highoctane View Post
    Placebo effect, if the computer fairy swapped your hardware in the middle of the night you without you knowing you probably wouldn't even notice a difference.
    QFT

    then again VRP makes a good point with his Mortal Kombat comparison, it's hard to argue against such sound reasoning! i mean Mortal Kombat is OBVIOUSLY the measuring stick that all smoothness related discussion should be based upon.

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  15. #45
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    Re: what you like dislike about intel amd

    Quote Originally Posted by highoctane View Post
    Placebo effect, if the computer fairy swapped your hardware in the middle of the night you without you knowing you probably wouldn't even notice a difference.
    I would never prefer an intel system largely because I DO notice lag and choppiness with every single intel system i've used in my leisure while I've noticed that every amd system i've used is smooth and is a very different experience than an intel cpu.

    Try to refrain from (incorrectly) telling me that I don't notice something when I actually do. I'm cool if you say/lie that you notice something, anything that you really don't but I'm not cool with you telling others that they don't notice things that they do, in fact, notice.

    The reason intel paid dell money to not use amd cpu's was b/c dell sells computers to public schools and universities and intel was afraid that if they didn't pay dell to use their cpu's that have defects and lag like mad, then they'd lose a big market to amd processors which don't show defects after 6 months and that don't lag. Intel has to pay people not to use amd products because Intel knows that Intel products are unreliable and no one would use them if they didn't get a huge incentive for slapping an intel product logo on the case and using their inferior products.

    Between 2 competitors the one that makes good and unfair business decisions (that only benefit themselves) propsers while the one who makes good products suffer.

    It's like with nintendo and sega. they overcharged their 3rd parties for rom chips and licensing fees while sega didn't.

    if amd had sold their athlon 64 x2's a few years ago at higher less unusually good prices, then they probably wouldn't be in bad financial shape.

    BTW, your wholly incorrect post came across as very rude and quite argumentative. If you didn't mean for it to be, I'm sorry for reading it the wrong way.

    and there's no such thing as a "computer fairy" at least to my knowledge.

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