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Thread: President Obama

  1. #1486
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveW View Post
    I like the logic and agree. So much in fact, because it's the logic I and many others have used on 9/11.

    Clinton's policies were the center of the problem.

    Thanks!
    If you said the logic that you used after 9/11, I'd be in total agreement on the Clinton direction. Which I mean by saying as we learned more about what was done after the attack on the Cole and the 1st attack on the WTC. That's why I totally supported the later changes that Bush put in. I'm not meaning to nitpick, I'm meaning to say we all gave Bush time to act to situations as we waited a bit to see how the later investigation took into account the actions we did after that first attack. Even the info we got from Clarke about trying to make Bush react to the intel (if true) didn't get me riled. For Bush was new and he had to assume, like Obama did, that the intel and security procedures were working.

    So now Obama knows, as did Bush, that the inherited system had flaws.

    And we can blame Clinton for all of this....



    The only point I see in all of this is that obviously changes need to be made quickly and Obama is doing just that.

    However, your point brings up the question "did Clinton support Bush or try to discredit him when the WTC attack occurred the way that Cheney is doing now to Obama?"

  2. #1487
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    Re: President Obama

    ^^^ If we're looking to compare apples to apples, it would be Al Gore criticizing Boosh instead of Bill Clinton wouldn't it?
    WASHINGTON, D.C.—In his New York Move-On speech this afternoon, Al Gore came close to saying flat-out that the Bush White House knew about the September 11 attacks before they happened.

    Here's what he said:

    "Two years ago yesterday, for example, according to The Wall Street Journal, the president was apparently advised in specific language that Al Qaeda was going to hijack some airplanes to conduct a terrorist strike inside the U.S.

    "I understand his concern about people knowing exactly what he read in the privacy of the Oval Office, and there is a legitimate reason for treating such memos to the president with care. But that concern has to be balanced against the national interest in improving the way America deals with such information. And the apparently chaotic procedures that were used to handle the forged nuclear documents from Niger certainly show evidence that there is room for improvement in the way the White House is dealing with intelligence memos. Along with other members of the previous administration, I certainly want the commission to have access to any and all documents sent to the White House while we were there that have any bearing on this issue. And President Bush should let the commission see the ones that he read too."...

    Gore goes on to rake the Patriot Act over the coals, calling it "a broad and extreme invasion of our privacy rights in the name of terrorism prevention." He went on: "And speaking of the Patriot Act, the president ought to reign in John Ashcroft and stop the gross abuses of civil rights that twice have been documented by his own Inspector General. And while he's at it, he needs to reign in Donald Rumsfeld and get rid of that DoD 'Total Information Awareness' program that's right out of George Orwell's 1984."
    http://www.villagevoice.com/2003-08-...ling-of-9-11/1

    Yeah, Al Gore was real supportive.

    He doesn't hold it for Cheney, either...
    Al Gore said Friday that fellow former Vice President •••• Cheney has jumped back into the political fray too soon into the new administration’s term.

    “I waited two years after I left office to make statements that were critical,” Gore said during an interview on CNN, pointing out that his critiques were focused on “policy.”

    “Talk about somebody that shouldn't be talking about making the country less safe, invading a country that did not attack us and posed no serious threat to us at all,” Gore said of Cheney.

    Gore identified Cheney as “the leading spokesman for his party” and said he suspects Cheney’s prominence is not welcomed by other Republicans.

    “I have a feeling that members of his own party wish that he would not do that,” Gore said. “But I'll let that be an argument between him and them.”

    Despite the criticism, Gore claimed he does not “want to get dragged into an argument with •••• Cheney about what he's getting into.”

    “I'm just going to let him speak for himself,” Gore said
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22568.html

  3. #1488
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    ^^^ If we're looking to compare apples to apples, it would be Al Gore criticizing Boosh instead of Bill Clinton wouldn't it?http://www.villagevoice.com/2003-08-...ling-of-9-11/1

    Yeah, Al Gore was real supportive.

    He doesn't hold it for Cheney, either...

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0509/22568.html
    Good point. So Gore gave Bush 2 years after the occurrence and Cheney gave Obama a week? What a ••••. Cheney that is.

  4. #1489
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    Re: President Obama

    Obama has had almost a full year to improve the homeland security system why hasn’t he done just that?

    If I remember correctly Obama had a lot to say about homeland security during the campaign. It’s not like he doesn’t or didn't know there’s a problem.
    Last edited by tucker; 12-30-2009 at 09:13 PM.

  5. #1490
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Good point. So Gore gave Bush 2 years after the occurrence and Cheney gave Obama a week? What a ••••. Cheney that is.
    That was Gore's claim, but as is often the case, Gore's facts are wrong. Were he only criticizing Boosh on how he handled 9-11, it was wrong, by a little bit. But since he was also bashing the Patriot Act, his claim is much farther off from reality. His suggestions for Ashcroft and Rumsfeld were in present time.

    Nice parrot job though, otoc.

  6. #1491
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Obama has had almost a full year to improve the homeland security system why hasn’t he done just that?

    If I remember correctly Obama had a lot to say about homeland security during the campaign. It’s not like he doesn’t or didn't know there’s a problem.
    That same reasoning of time in office could also be used for Bush who also had close to a year while being well aware of both the Cole and the first attack on the WTC. Remember, he was getting status reports, too.

    Besides, the issues Obama had with Bush regarding Homeland Security are what I consider to be strategic and organizational, and things he has changed, agree with them or not. I wouldn't say he has done nothing.

    Apparently, by the story coming out, the issue here was an operational level problem. I still give Obama the same break I gave Bush on this, even including the fact that there was a shoe bomber who also managed to make it on a jet liner during his watch after 9/11 and at the same time in office.

    Just an opinion.

  7. #1492
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    That was Gore's claim, but as is often the case, Gore's facts are wrong. Were he only criticizing Boosh on how he handled 9-11, it was wrong, by a little bit. But since he was also bashing the Patriot Act, his claim is much farther off from reality. His suggestions for Ashcroft and Rumsfeld were in present time.

    Nice parrot job though, otoc.
    I won't even begin to respond to the parrot comment, let alone wonder what it means.
    google is my friend...
    Gore Criticizes Bush Approach to Security; Freedoms Shouldn't Be Compromised To Fight Terror, Ex-Vice President Says
    The Washington Post | November 10, 2003

    In his second major policy speech in three months, former vice president Al Gore took aim yesterday at what he said was the Bush administration's exploitation of the terrorist attacks of 2001 to justify an undemocratic suspension of domestic freedoms and to create a government built on "secrecy and deception."
    that speech had the "not safer now than 911" comment.
    3 years...

    Gore: Bush ignored signs of al-Qaida threat
    Thursday, Sep 26, 2002 14:00 EDT
    Gore: Bush ignored signs of al-Qaida threat
    By Tom Raum

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Democrat Al Gore, criticizing President Bush as he tests the waters for another possible presidential bid, accused the administration Thursday of an "attack on civil liberties" and ignoring signs that Osama bin Laden had been planning a terrorist attack on U.S. soil.

    It was the former vice president's second scathing attack on Bush in a week.

    Speaking at a Democratic fund-raising breakfast in Wilmington, Del., Gore took issue with the administration's handling of intelligence information prior to the Sept. 11 attacks and for its treatment of some terrorism suspects since then.

    "The warnings were there" before the attacks, Gore said. He asserted that Bush's Justice Department had devoted more time and agents to investigating a suspected brothel in New Orleans than to monitoring bin Laden and his al-Qaida network.

    "Where is the sense of priorities?" asked Gore.

    On Monday, in San Francisco, he accused Bush of squandering the international goodwill that the United States had accumulated in the aftermath of the terror attacks by his increasingly hard line on Iraq.

    Gore, who was narrowly defeated by Bush in 2000, challenged both the wisdom of targeting Saddam Hussein at this time and the president's suggestions of unilateral U.S. action should he fail to win United Nations backing.

    The strong words of the San Francisco speech _ a rare direct challenge of the popular president's conduct of the war on terrorism _ caught some Democrats by surprise. But analysts suggested it also emboldened others to speak out, and may have helped pave the way for harsh criticism of Bush on Wednesday by Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D.

    The vice president's activity was widely seen as an attempt to position himself for another run at the presidency in 2004 _ and to set himself apart from Bush as well as other would-be Democratic contenders _ ahead of the presidential primary-election season.

    "Al Gore is stepping up his political activity in a number of ways by speaking out and traveling across the country to help raise resources for Democrats in the 2002 election," said Jano Cabrera, a Gore spokesman. Gore plans to give another strongly worded policy speech in the coming days, though the exact topic and timing have not been announced.

    Gore's Thursday comments came at a fund-raising breakfast for Delaware attorney general candidate Carl Schnee.

    Gore said "highly questionable" decisions are being made in the criminal justice system under Attorney General John Ashcroft.

    "What's going on nationally, with the attack on civil liberties, with American citizens in some cases just disappearing without right to counsel, without access to a lawyer, I think that is disgraceful," he said.

    "I think we need to stand up for our principles in this country and stand up for what this nation represents, even as we face the terrible dangers that we have to confront in the world today," he added.

    Gore also decried any efforts to portray Democratic critics of the administration's homeland security plans and possible war with Iraq as unpatriotic or unconcerned about national security.

    Sen. Joseph Lieberman, Gore's vice presidential running mate two years ago, has taken issue with some of Gore's earlier comments that targeting Saddam could damage the war on terrorism.

    But he said Thursday on CNN that he considered Gore's criticism of Bush's national security policies "definitely responsible."

    He said of Gore, "He's got great credibility on national security matters. He was vice president for eight years, making these kinds of decisions. I think his voice is important to be heard."

    Lieberman is exploring a potential presidential bid himself, although has said that he won't run if Gore does. Gore has said he'll make up his mind by December.

    Analysts saw Gore's tactic as maneuvering for position in such a race.

    "He has gotten out in front of all the other Democrats, even those who have offered some criticism of Bush," said Larry Sabato, a University of Virginia political scientist. Sabato said that Gore is seeking to distinguish himself as "the peace candidate," which can help particularly in Iowa _ the first presidential caucus and home to a considerable number of anti-war Democrats.

    "This is a nomination strategy," Sabato said.
    2 years in office, 1 year after 911.

    So yeah, Gore numbers.

    Then we have Cheney, 1 year in office and 1 week after the attack.

  8. #1493
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    Re: President Obama

    ^^^ Stay true to yer skool.

    Yeah, I got the point of the years wrong. But apparently not the parroting.

    Gore says... repeat after me... "I waited two years after I left office to make statements that were critical." And otoc says... _____________

    Cheney only waited one year!!! The heathen.

    Since when does Gore set standards for Cheney?

    Boo hoo.

  9. #1494
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    Re: President Obama

    Talk about the pot calling the kettle black:

    "Gore: Bush ignored signs of al-Qaida threat
    Thursday, Sep 26, 2002 14:00 EDT
    Gore: Bush ignored signs of al-Qaida threat
    By Tom Raum

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Democrat Al Gore, criticizing President Bush as he tests the waters for another possible presidential bid, accused the administration Thursday of an "attack on civil liberties" and ignoring signs that Osama bin Laden had been planning a terrorist attack on U.S. soil."

    Gore makes these claims a year after 9/11. 9/11 was conceived and developed while Mr. Al "Shit-Fer-Brains" (or is it Global Warming) Gore himself was our shiny VP.

  10. #1495
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    ^^^ Stay true to yer skool.

    Yeah, I got the point of the years wrong. But apparently not the parroting.

    Gore says... repeat after me... "I waited two years after I left office to make statements that were critical." And otoc says... _____________

    Cheney only waited one year!!! The heathen.

    Since when does Gore set standards for Cheney?

    Boo hoo.
    Stuff the parroting BS dutch. You brought up Gore and all I did was check the facts since all you could offer was the usual comments from your lower gut about Gore and facts. So go crying after the media for giving us history to review the facts and see that Gore was right. Parrot, lol. Sometimes your personal comments simply boarder on the sublime.

    And as to Cheney, it wasn't a year after leaving office. It was 5 months and not 1 year....
    Cheney slams Obama in speech

    * Story Highlights
    * Former vice president defends Bush administration national security policies
    * Cheney criticizes current president's decisions and statements
    * Obama's policies are "recklessness cloaked in righteousness," Cheney says
    * Cheney attacks policies on interrogation techniques, Guantanamo Bay, more

    updated 8:39 p.m. EDT, Thu May 21, 2009

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former Vice President •••• Cheney Thursday said the Bush administration's "enhanced" interrogations of al Qaeda prisoners, saved "thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands" of lives.
    Former Vice President •••• Cheney defends Bush administration policies during a speech Thursday.

    Former Vice President •••• Cheney defends Bush administration policies during a speech Thursday.

    Dismissing critics who said the policy amounted to the torture of suspected terrorists, Cheney called the techniques the Bush administration approved "legal, essential, justified, successful and the right thing to do." And he said President Obama has weakened the country's ability to combat al Qaeda and other extremists by eliminating them.
    I'd agree that Cheney doesn't listen to anyone, including Gore to make up his rules where outgoing administrations would allow the new administration time before blasting "what if" illusions. But I'd be afraid you'd say I was parroting you and not simply using my own mind to come to a conclusion.

    Cheney has, however, changed the playing field for the next time a GOP president gets elected. No more waiting for time to tell where an argument is based on information. Nope. And I'm a patient man.

    Speaking of patience and boo hooing a loss, what about the GOP VP candidate since you brought up VPs? How long did she wait?
    Palin blasts Obama administration: Government wants to "control the people"
    June 4, 2009

    (CNN) – Alaska governor Sarah Palin let loose Wednesday on the Obama administration for enacting fiscal policies that "fly in the face of principles" and "defy Economics 101."

    In a speech introducing Michael Reagan — the son of former President Ronald Reagan — to an audience in Anchorage, Palin warned that the government is planning to "bail out debt ridden states" so it can "get in there and control the people."
    5 months....
    Talk about boo hooing, wah wah wah, let's project all that crying onto the dems when in fact the GOP has been at the forefront of recent history.

    Yup, the GOP has taken past respect for new administrations to an all time low and in politics, what goes around, comes around. I'll be waiting to see what your comments are when that happens and have bookmarked this post.

    @steve, look, I agreed that that Clinton policies were helpful in allowing the 2nd attack to happen by not making intel changes. But Gore did wait 2 years out of office and to say the attack was planned while Gore was in office doesn't take into account that the attack plan was finalized while Bush was in office for close to year and that intel chatter regarding an upcoming attack utilizing aircraft was making it's way through channels at the time. This is where I'm not going to play the blame game of politics. What we need to see are presidents reacting to the latest info and coming up with policies.

  11. #1496
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    Re: President Obama

    lol, now this is getting good, check out the last line...
    Political attacks over Christmas Day airline incident heat up

    Cheney said the president's policies have made the U.S. less safe.

    By Philip Rucker and Michael D. Shear
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Thursday, December 31, 2009

    The political war over the failed Christmas Day bombing of a U.S. airliner showed no signs of abating Wednesday as leaders of both parties escalated their attacks, employing fiery rhetoric in assessing blame for the Detroit incident.

    This Story
    • At Yemen school, portrait of a man who had changed
    • Al-Qaeda and Yemen
    • Obama to get report on intelligence breakdown
    • War of words over plane incident heats up
    • Nigeria, Netherlands announce security plans; Somalia reports foiled bombing attempt
    • The failed plane bombing in Detroit
    • Full-body scanners on display at Reagan National Airport

    Former vice president Richard B. Cheney led a GOP offensive to assail President Obama's leadership on national security, charging that the American people are less safe because, Cheney believes, Obama is "pretending" that the United States is not at war with terrorists.

    "We are at war and when President Obama pretends we aren't, it makes us less safe," Cheney, one of Obama's strongest critics, said in a statement to Politico. "Why doesn't he want to admit we're at war? It doesn't fit with the view of the world he brought with him to the Oval Office. It doesn't fit with what seems to be the goal of his presidency -- social transformation -- the restructuring of American society."

    Top aides to Obama and Democratic leaders pushed back aggressively, accusing Cheney and other Republicans of politicizing the incident in ways they say Democrats did not during previous terrorist acts.

    "Cheney was out there today saying that the president doesn't recognize that we have a war on terror," White House senior adviser David Axelrod said in an interview. "This is the president who has made a very tough decision to refocus our efforts in Afghanistan after seven years of drift."

    Democrats said the Bush administration -- chiefly Cheney -- failed to keep its focus on the fight against al-Qaeda as it pursued war in Iraq.

    "This president is not interested in bellicose rhetoric, he is focused on action," White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer wrote on a blog. "Seven years of bellicose rhetoric failed to reduce the threat from al Qaeda and succeeded in dividing this country. And it seems strangely off-key now, at a time when our country is under attack, for the architect of those policies to be attacking the president."

    For days, a chorus of GOP leaders has sought to portray Obama as weak on national security because of his administration's response to the incident as well as the intelligence and security failures that allowed Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab to board a Northwest Airlines flight carrying an explosive.

    Republicans said Obama should have interrupted his Hawaiian vacation before Monday to address last Friday's attack. But Democrats called this a double standard, saying they did not attack then-President George W. Bush when he said nothing during his vacation in Crawford, Tex., for nearly a week after shoe bomber Richard C. Reid's failed attack in 2001.

    "Republicans are simply hypocrites," Democratic National Committee spokesman Brad Woodhouse said. "There is nothing -- no bounds whatsoever -- to what they will politicize for their own political gain."

    House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) on Wednesday said the Detroit incident is evidence that Obama should reconsider his decision to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. "It's time for the president to halt terrorist transfers to other countries, including Yemen."

    The detainees who ended up in the al-Qaeda leadership in Yemen were released not by Obama but by Bush two years ago.

  12. #1497
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    Re: President Obama

    What a phuking waste. The "Big O" needs to reel in this insanity.

    $75m+ to try this piece of worthless sh!t.

    Take him out back and blow him away.

  13. #1498
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    Re: President Obama

    We can characterize Cheney and Palin and the GOP in general as bringing respect for new administrations to an all time low because of the timing of their objections, or face the naked truth that a whole lot of people just ain't happy with what's goin' on in Obami World. The 20-some percent who adore him have to face the reality that more than 40% don't cotton to him at all.



    I certainly don't hold a lot of respect for Obama and his minions. I think they're a bunch of thieves and ne'er-do-wells that are only interested in bettering their own position at our (my) expense.

  14. #1499
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    We can characterize Cheney and Palin and the GOP in general as bringing respect for new administrations to an all time low because of the timing of their objections, or face the naked truth that a whole lot of people just ain't happy with what's goin' on in Obami World. The 20-some percent who adore him have to face the reality that more than 40% don't cotton to him at all.



    I certainly don't hold a lot of respect for Obama and his minions. I think they're a bunch of thieves and ne'er-do-wells that are only interested in bettering their own position at our (my) expense.
    lol, that chart of yours you love. Let's take a look at it outside of it being the lowest poll available.

    hmm, now how did Rassmussen jump from a 7 point spread to an 18 point spread in just one day?

    Ahh, if you further refine the numbers into a subsection of strongly feels on both sides, that's how. So your chart, dude, is only looking at a percentage of their polling. As Rasmussen states:
    Here, don't believe me that your cute little chart doesn't count everyone the all the other polls track approval? Here's the Rasmussen core data. Oh my, it's that data thing again...


    Let's go back to the way everyone else, including Rasmussen, looks at the approval rating and then average it all out using all the polls from the first chart...


    then tell me when the opinion of everyone matches the opinion they had with the last president as well as yours. Then I'll take your obfuscated data seriously.

    Last edited by otoc; 12-31-2009 at 12:11 PM. Reason: added links to source data

  15. #1500
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    Re: President Obama

    ^^^ Good point. It only takes Obama a year to do what Boosh did in eight years. Tank in the opinion polls.

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