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Thread: President Obama

  1. #781
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    Re: President Obama

    President Obama gave his speech last night at Sun Devil stadium to nearly 9700 graduates (ASU is a BIG school) and 60,000+ attendees. Enough wisdom prevailed to have the keynote events after sundown.

    Text of Speech

    Even so, the day did peak at about 98F ambient and because of how the stadium it's worse:

    Graduates, family and friends, and ASU faculty braved hours of scorching triple-digit heat, endured strict security scrutiny and other logistical hassles for the chance to see and hear the president's 30-minute commencement speech. At one point in the afternoon, temperatures on the stadium floor nearly hit 110 degrees. Typical security-screening wait times ranged from 30 to 60 minutes.

    By the end of Obama's speech, about 100 people had required medical attention at the first-aid station on the northern end inside the stadium, said Dr. Vandana Sinha of ASU's Health and Wellness Center. Dozens more were treated at a nearby station, she said. Of those who needed help, about a dozen were sent to a hospital, she said. Three were diabetics and one person had a seizure, Sinha said.
    The day could have easily been 108F ambient.

    I will take this opportunity to quote one part of the speech:

    Engineering? Help us lead a green revolution, developing new sources of clean energy that will power our economy and preserve our planet.
    Well, it will certainly be green- especially if we are no longer able to design and build cars and airplanes in America and far fewer will have a job to be able to afford to drive and fly again...

    Example: 4600 more good paying jobs these grads won't have to think about.

    Except for our beloved president who can burn off tons of CO2 producing JP fuel to gallivant across the country in a 747 to blow sunshine up the butts of college graduates in red states.

    Don't worry- the Chinese will be glad to pick up this market segment too while we sit at home paying taxes with welfare money and maybe even begin to enjoy an old Chinese tradition: Starvation.
    Last edited by AeroSim; 05-14-2009 at 10:35 AM.
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  2. #782
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Granted, I'm not in charge of the security of an entire nation.

    Thats a huge qualifier, to me at least. While my personal morals may say one thing or another, if I was in such a focused position of power, IMO the responsibility would vastly outweight any personal moral quibbles. How many parents would hesitate to use any means necessary, when it comes down to the life and safety of their children? Magnified by some 300million...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    But when the best evidence you have that "torture works" is a couple of episodes of "24", then maybe that should raise a few red flags.
    Thats the real issue, isn't it? The evidence i've read about shows that it works. Maybe not as well as our squeemish morals would hope, but it seems to me that it does increase our intel.

  3. #783
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by mostholycerebus View Post
    Thats a huge qualifier, to me at least. While my personal morals may say one thing or another, if I was in such a focused position of power, IMO the responsibility would vastly outweight any personal moral quibbles. How many parents would hesitate to use any means necessary, when it comes down to the life and safety of their children? Magnified by some 300million...



    Thats the real issue, isn't it? The evidence i've read about shows that it works. Maybe not as well as our squeemish morals would hope, but it seems to me that it does increase our intel.
    Funny how this exchange has gone to vague principals. While a parent may defend an actual attack, an after the fact "any means" is exactly what? To go after someone who you feel endangers your child? To enact your own version of justice in retaliation? It seems we have laws that set aside what we can do and what we need to allow the process of justice to achieve for us and 'squeamish morals' have nothing to do with it.

    I'd rather be a country of principals and realize that actions on a field of war are different than ones done in a room with a prisoner. When Daniel Perle was beheaded, did that help the cause of terror? Of course not. When our soldiers are held prisoner, do we expect principals to be held, or allow the terrorists to do away with 'squeamish morals'?

    If our system of justice is to be held high as an example, I'd rather take the chance that I might be blown up and hold my finger up to terrorists in the process that my way of life is mo better and they can stick their twisted principals where the sun don't shine. I'm not going to have fear of what they might do, or lose our principals in the hope of what we might find. Then they really win. We as a country become the beast they say we are. My opinion.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  4. #784
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Funny how this exchange has gone to vague principals.
    Heh, not really, anything involving the subject of torture is probably based in vague priciples.

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    While a parent may defend an actual attack, an after the fact "any means" is exactly what? To go after someone who you feel endangers your child? To enact your own version of justice in retaliation?
    Well I thought 'any means' is pretty clear, but aside from that, what do the rest of your questions have to do with torture? This is NOT an 'after the fact' or 'justice' situation. These people are not being tortured to gain information used in the prosecution of criminal charges. They are being tortured to gain intel about future attacks, and thus are defensive in nature. The turture has NOTHING to do with retaliation.


    You talk alot about prisoners of war and how they are treated, but lets be honest here, thats a complete load of BS. These are not prisoners of war, just as they are not US citizens subject to the justice system you also mention. Both of those arguments completely miss the target in regards to non-uniformed foreign terrorists planning attacks on US citizens both within and without the borders of our country. Lets not waste our time again with them.


    Death before dishonor, huh? On a national scale, leaves you with a complete generation of dishonorable bastards as the future of our country. Who would probably condone torture anyway.

    BTW my 'squeemish morals' should have been in quotes. There was no intention to dismiss morality, of course its just as important to the american fabric as our own self-defence.

  5. #785
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by mostholycerebus View Post
    Thats a huge qualifier, to me at least. While my personal morals may say one thing or another, if I was in such a focused position of power, IMO the responsibility would vastly outweight any personal moral quibbles. How many parents would hesitate to use any means necessary, when it comes down to the life and safety of their children? Magnified by some 300million...



    Thats the real issue, isn't it? The evidence i've read about shows that it works. Maybe not as well as our squeemish morals would hope, but it seems to me that it does increase our intel.
    Yep.

    I'm not going to get into what we've done to obtain information- but I will tell you the latest news.

    We have have gone 7 years and change without another terrorist attack on our soil like 9/11. We have no further civilian body counts to report to families because some peevish coward wants to righteously kill Americans with swindled fanatic fools who think God will give them 40 virgins in heaven if they do so.

    It's really ironic what is not tolerated until it happens to you. A lot of those "tortured" would have merrily plowed an aircraft into your workplace because you are a Great Satanist Swine. He may have even rejoiced over a woman being shot because she talked back to her husband. Maybe pulled the trigger?

    There is a lot of garbage humanity in the world who should be caught and killed. Period. It's called justice. If they can give us a lead to hunt down some others....
    Last edited by AeroSim; 05-14-2009 at 12:17 PM.
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  6. #786
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    If our system of justice is to be held high as an example, I'd rather take the chance that I might be blown up and hold my finger up to terrorists in the process that my way of life is mo better and they can stick their twisted principals where the sun don't shine. I'm not going to have fear of what they might do, or lose our principals in the hope of what we might find. Then they really win. We as a country become the beast they say we are. My opinion.


    Very gallant but don’t expect other people to be willing to die protecting your principles. I’d much rather see the terrorist die in the process of trying to force his misguided principles on me. Chivalry looks very enchanting in a text book but it’s a sure fire prescription for death and defeat in the real world of cutthroat kill or be killed warfare.

  7. #787
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    Re: President Obama

    How's Obama's foreclosure policy working out?

    Ray Robison
    It has been nearly three months since a newly sworn in President Obama stepped forward with a plan to rescue underwater homeowners from foreclosure. Now, we learn that the President's $275 Billion foreclosure fix has floundered and failed. The professional media slobbered over Obama's homeowner bailout under the pretext that they cared about the little guy/gal losing the family home. Yet as foreclosure numbers climb to a record, breakneck pace the media stubbornly refuses to note this enormous failure of the Obama administration. The foreclosure "surge" has been lost.

    CNN is reporting that April saw a record 342,000 homes slip into the foreclosure process. And the worst is yet to come. According to the article, government intervention did slow down the process, for a moment. Some major lenders took a pause last February to see what the foreclosure bailout plan would bring. But the delay is over. According to CNN it will get worse next month as even more homes move into repossession.

    President Obama spoke of his plan in February -- "Through this plan, we will help between 7 and 9 million families restructure or refinance their mortgages so they can avoid foreclosure." (NPR ) Instead the foreclosure rate has accelerated. The President pushed through hundreds of billions in spending that has done nothing to ease the foreclosure frenzy.

    It is now time for the media to question the judgment of President Obama and his economic policy. His quick fix, band-aid, throw money at the problem, Democrat solutions have not rescued the little guy from escalating foreclosure rates, unemployment rates, or crashing home values. We were assured that the emergency spending bills he pushed through would have a short term stimulus effect, yet we see none. We were told that George Bush wrecked the economy. Common sense must dictate that if Obama knows so much better than Bush, why hasn't he at least stopped the crushing foreclosure rate?

    The media should be asking questions of the President. Why was the President under the illusion that his plan would rescue homeowners? Where did he get his intelligence? Was his information cherry-picked from all the available opinions within the government? Weren't there government officials, media and business experts warning that the fix would fail? Is anybody going to be held responsible for this "optional war" on foreclosure that stuck taxpayers for $275 Billion worth of nothing?

    And the media should be asking questions to itself. Why did it uncritically report this massive fraud without asking for any proof it would work? Would a $275 Billion failure be ignored if big-business had dropped the ball instead of big government Democrats? Of course these questions are rhetorical. The media doesn't have the spine to stand up to a popular President they agree with.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  8. #788
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    Re: President Obama

    ^^^ One of the reasons is that loans were going to be allowed for 105% of the equity. However, in the worst hit areas, many are upside-down 2-300%. So many who they say need it most, can't qualify.
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  9. #789
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    Re: President Obama



    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  10. #790
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    Re: President Obama

    Adding to what Aero posted earlier, following are excerpts from the commencement speech by Obama to Arizona State University's graduating class:
    It may be tempting to fall back on the formulas for success that have been peddled so frequently in recent years. You're taught to chase after all the usual brass rings. You chase after the big money, and you figure how big your corner office is. You worry about whether you have a fancy enough title or a fancy enough car. That's the message that's sent each and every day -- or has been in our culture for far too long -- that, through material possessions, through a ruthless competition pursued only on your own behalf, that's how you will measure success.
    I wanna highlight two main problems with that old, tired "me first" approach to life. First of all, it distracts you from what's truly important, and it may lead you to compromise your values and your principles and your commitments. It was in pursuit of gaudy, short-term profits and the bonuses that came with them that so many folks lost their way on Wall Street. The trappings of success may be a byproduct of this larger mission, but it can't be the central thing. Just ask Bernie Madoff.
    Or Bill Gates, or Oprah Winfrey, or George Soros, or any other of a large group of successful Americans.
    A relentless focus on the outward markers of success can lead to complacency. In recent years in many ways, we've become enamored with our own past success, lulled into complacency by the glitter of our own achievements. We've become accustomed to the title of "military superpower," forgetting the qualities that got us there, not just the power of our weapons, but the discipline and valor and the code of conduct of our men and women in uniform. We've become accustomed to our economic dominance in the world, forgetting that it wasn't reckless deals and get-rich-quick schemes that got us where we are, but hard work and smart ideas, quality products and wise investments.
    Did you study business? Why not help a struggle not for profit to find better, more effective ways to serve folks in need? (cheers) You study nursing? Understaffed clinics and hospitals across this country are desperate for your help. (silence) You study education? (cheers) Teach in a high-needs school. Give a chance to kids who can't -- who can't get everything they need, m'be, in their neighborhood, maybe not even their home, but we can't afford to give up on them. (applause) Prepare them to compete for any job anywhere in the world. You study engineering? (cheers) Help us lead a green revolution, developing new sources of clean energy that will power our economy and preserve our planet. Find somebody to be successful forward. Raise their hopes! Rise to their needs.
    Just doesn't sound like the leader of a free country.

  11. #791
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    Adding to what Aero posted earlier, following are excerpts from the commencement speech by Obama to Arizona State University's graduating class:Or Bill Gates, or Oprah Winfrey, or George Soros, or Barack Obama, or Michelle Obama or any other of a large group of successful Americans.Just doesn't sound like the leader of a free country.
    Added two obvious fat cats you forgot to put in there Dutch.

  12. #792
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    Adding to what Aero posted earlier, following are excerpts from the commencement speech by Obama to Arizona State University's graduating class:
    Or Bill Gates, or Oprah Winfrey, or George Soros, or any other of a large group of successful Americans.
    Just doesn't sound like the leader of a free country.
    It sounds like we should be striving for mediocrity.

    Don't forget to tell that to our Olympians too.
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  13. #793
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    Re: President Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by mostholycerebus View Post
    Heh, not really, anything involving the subject of torture is probably based in vague priciples.
    Actually not. In this case, waterboarding, which is no longer allowed because of the public outcry that came out in published reports, is a not so vague topic. One that an FBI agent testified had no effect. Considering 3 prisoners had an approximate total of 300 experiences with the technique shows to me how 'effective' it is.



    Quote Originally Posted by mostholycerebus View Post
    Well I thought 'any means' is pretty clear, but aside from that, what do the rest of your questions have to do with torture? This is NOT an 'after the fact' or 'justice' situation. These people are not being tortured to gain information used in the prosecution of criminal charges. They are being tortured to gain intel about future attacks, and thus are defensive in nature. The turture has NOTHING to do with retaliation.
    lol, I still have no idea what 'any means' means in terms of parents. But we do have laws that disregard whether or not the recipient of parental 'any means' focus is a citizen of the US or not. Our constitution has been interpreted to mean exactly what it gives without warrant of citizenship. Why do you suppose Gitmo was placed outside of the country?

    I suggest we stop playing the word game. They were tortured to get information. Whatever final purpose of the goal has no bearing.




    Quote Originally Posted by mostholycerebus View Post
    You talk alot about prisoners of war and how they are treated, but lets be honest here, thats a complete load of BS. These are not prisoners of war, just as they are not US citizens subject to the justice system you also mention. Both of those arguments completely miss the target in regards to non-uniformed foreign terrorists planning attacks on US citizens both within and without the borders of our country. Lets not waste our time again with them.
    Really. So these "prisoners of no war" have no protection that we would give a neighbor's dog that was being beaten by it's owner? How about a spy? Do they not get protection under our laws?

    It's not BS in my mind and while I appreciate your opinion, I do not agree. Besides the reality of the situation is that torture is not needed. We have drugs and only need intel officers that actually speak the language to get orderly and humane information. There is no need for torture and we only have the Spanish Inquisition, or Salem Witch hunts, or statements by pilots in Hanoi to learn by example exactly what torture brings. Torture brings whatever promises to stop the torture.


    Quote Originally Posted by mostholycerebus View Post
    Death before dishonor, huh? On a national scale, leaves you with a complete generation of dishonorable bastards as the future of our country. Who would probably condone torture anyway.
    I really have no idea what this response means and I'm surprised you spin off into the probably land of discussion.

    When do the terroists win? When they affect our lives and make us live in fear and lose our liberties in the process. I regect that notion. You want to make light of it? Fine. We apparently disagree.

    I have no problem living without fear as long as my system of justice, one where there is due process with checks and balances protecting me from my government. Seems like a conservative notion to me, but in todays political world, I'm sure one could suddenly spin that in a different light.

    Quote Originally Posted by mostholycerebus View Post
    BTW my 'squeemish morals' should have been in quotes. There was no intention to dismiss morality, of course its just as important to the american fabric as our own self-defence.
    Ahh, now we are on to something from which we can get common ground, my friend. At what point does morality enter the picture of self-defence?
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  14. #794
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    Re: President Obama

    From Sean Braswell at the Stimulist:
    History doesn’t repeat itself, Mark Twain once said, but it often rhymes. Barack Obama’s young presidency is off to an undeniably impressive start, but before he gets too cocky, the president would do well to look back a few decades. At the end of April 1977, roughly 100 days after his inauguration, then-President Jimmy Carter’s approval rating was 75%, about ten points higher than Obama’s today. The young Washington outsider carried an ambitious legislative agenda, even confiding in his diary that “everybody has warned me not to take on too many projects so early in the administration, but it’s almost impossible for me to delay something that I see needs to be done.” Carter’s hubris was present from his very first “fireside chat” to the nation in February 1977, during which he wore that (in)famous cardigan and promised to provide within 90 days a comprehensive plan for dealing with energy independence. The talk was only part of his “People’s Plan,” a bid to talk directly to the American people through town meetings, radio call-ins, and televised addresses.

    Starting to rhyme yet?

    Shortly after that first chat, Carter took to working 80-hour weeks in a futile attempt to make good on his ambitious campaign promise of change. But, despite Democratic majorities in both houses of Congress, Carter’s efforts to cut pork-barrel projects and enact comprehensive reforms on energy and other matters strained the White House’s relationships with lawmakers on Capitol Hill. Carter and the American people would follow a similar trajectory, culminating with his disastrous “crisis of confidence” speech during the energy crisis of 1979, a sanctimonious sermon in which he admonished Americans about the hazards of self-indulgence and consumption. The address became known as Carter’s “malaise” speech, and it only served to galvanize the public’s lack of confidence in his leadership. After winning by just a few points in ‘76, Carter lost to Ronald Reagan by 10 in 1980.

    To avoid a similar fate, especially with a party poised to rumble, Obama will need to remain level-headed and keep his hubristic tendencies in check. It probably couldn’t hurt to avoid wearing cardigans, as well.
    There's a lot in there we've mentioned here already, but in particular, I'd say most people don't remember Carter being so popular, but he was.

  15. #795
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    Re: President Obama

    How about this? We're gonna eliminate 3,000 dealers. We're going to cut our advertising budget in half. We're going to thus make our cars invisible and we're going to make our cars hard to find, in the process we're going to revive these companies. That's the new government plan for Chrysler, and it's probably going to be the same for General Motors. Eliminate 3,000 dealers. The average number of employees at a dealer is 50, so that's 150,000 further jobs that are going to be lost. Get rid of the advertising, that's going to have a negative impact to the private sector.

    So you eliminate 3,000 dealers, which means it will be harder for people to find the car. You cut the advertising budget in half, which means a lot less people are going to know what the car is. So you don't know what the car is, you don't know where to go get the car, how are you going to buy one? But this is what you get when you got a bunch of bureaucrats trying to revive the automobile industry. The news coming out of Washington is disgusting, the news yesterday that we are going to control the salaries of banks, bank executives, CEOs, and employees who had no TARP money taken. Hugo Chavez doesn't have the cojones to try what Obama is trying without legislation. Every day brings more and more creeping socialism and he's trying to ram it through as quickly as possible, succeeding, too, before there's a serious revolution to it all. Speeches promise the moon, and they're just an extension of the campaign. He convenes roundtables on health care, solves the problem in two days; solves car company problems in two days; solves the banking problem in two days; solves the mortgage problem in two days. Next he's gonna fix the environment in two days.
    Let's play guess who said it. There's more here.

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