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  1. #31
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Interesting article. Makes a very good case for tax credits for certain activities.
    Brian

  2. #32
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    This is more akin to an indecent proposal than a "stimulus". Some of the items crammed into this nearly trillion dollar porkfest border on the obscene.

    Debunking the Stimulus Myth: Only 3% Allotted for Road, Bridge Spending



    You've heard it here, there and everywhere in the news media - the time is now for a big-government economic stimulus package, not only to revive the economy, but to salvage America's crumbling infrastructure.

    That's one of the selling points used over and over again by pundits, as they are paraded out repeatedly on broadcast and cable network news programs - that so-called "shovel-ready" projects will challenge economic woes by revitalizing something we need to do anyway. But only 3 percent of the Obama stimulus plan is slated for such projects.

    "The total size of the plan is about $750 to $800 billion - roughly $300 billion is for tax cuts for businesses and individuals," CBS correspondent Chip Reid said on CBS's Jan. 12 "The Early Show." "The rest will be spent on everything from roads and bridges to renewable energy to create three to 4 million jobs. Republicans are raising red flags about the amount of spending."


    In reality, little of the $850 billion American Recovery & Reinvestment Act of 2009 proposed by congressional Democrats will actually be spent on actual road and bridge projects - the sort of things most people think of when they hear infrastructure spending, according to the office of Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala.

    The recent proposal distributed by congressional Democrats will provide only an additional $15 billion in 2009 and 2010 for road construction and repair. And of that $30 billion total provided, some funds are earmarked for narrow uses such as technology training or construction of roads on Indian reservations and in national parks.

    According to those calculations, that's just a little more than 3 percent meant to be spent on actual road and bridge construction. Compare that $30 billion allocated in this bill to the most expensive road project in U.S. history - the infamous "Big Dig" of Massachusetts. The final tally puts the cost of this road project to $15 billion and estimates say it will end up costing $22 billion by the year 2038. The $30 billion in this package would just be enough to cover the costs of that one project and a few smaller plans.

    "This $900 billion economic stimulus is being sold as a massive highway infrastructure bill, when, in truth, only 3 percent of this money is committed to highway construction," Sessions said in a statement. "This is the largest spending bill the Congress has ever considered, and the American people - who ultimately are going to pick up the tab - need to know exactly what they are getting, or not getting, for their money."

    Still, even recently sworn-in President Barack Obama is out on the stump selling it as a road and bridge stimulus proposal.

    "We're making a series of investments that point to the future, as well as just dealing with rebuilding our roads, bridges, et cetera," Obama said on ABC's Jan. 11 "This Week with George Stephanopoulos." "Now, there's no doubt that that probably gives you the most bang for the buck in terms of stimulus, in terms of getting the economy started and putting people back to work. But there are only so many projects that you can do quickly of that sort."

    And reporters are on board with the mythology of the stimulus package also. CNBC's John Harwood outlined the road and bridge component of the stimulus on NBC's Jan. 11 "Meet the Press," but wasn't able differentiate just how much.

    "He's got a hundred billion dollars of infrastructure, try to spend on roads, bridges, electricity grid, green jobs, alternative energy spending. He's got $300 billion worth of tax cuts, most of which he campaigned on, some of which he's added to try to lure Republicans to support this package on the Hill."

    The mantra - this massive spending package is needed to rescue America's "crumbling infrastructure - as Melissa Harris-Lacewell, an associate professor at Princeton University said on CNN's Jan. 7 "American Morning."

    "Sometimes it's true that the government is better than private industry or individual households in moving us out of such a big hole," Harris-Lacewell said. "Most importantly, because the government can take on enormous projects like the rebuilding of our crumbling infrastructure, the movement of our energy plan into a more green energy economy, these kinds of things are actually best undertaken by massive projects."

    "We could put easily a million people to work just in rebuilding transportation infrastructure and that's everything from white collar jobs like architects to blue collar jobs like the people actually out there pouring that cement for you," she continued.

    "It's just 2.7 percent of the spending proposal that's being contemplated for what every person would normally characterize as infrastructure," Rep. Peter Roskam, R-Ill., a member of the House Ways and Means Committee, said to the Business & Media Institute. "And that's really a weakness in this proposal. So, look - it's a fig leaf - $30 billion, which is the infrastructure piece in an $850 billion plan. You could only characterize that as a fig leaf."

    "Again, what you see in Democrat bill is 14 years of pent-up demand to increase the size, scope, power and expense of the federal government," Rep. Jeb Hensarling, R-Texas, a member of the House Financial Services Committee, said to BMI. "What are they are doing within this bill, which they parade under the title of ‘stimulus,' is fund 150 different federal programs - 32 brand-new programs, 19 programs which OMB [Office of Management and Budget] has labeled as ineffective or shown no results."

    In a conference call on Jan. 23, House Minority Whip Rep. Eric Cantor and Hensarling pointed out some of the more egregious spending provisions in the House Democrat proposal:

    * For every dollar that is spent for small business tax relief, $4 are being spent for the maintenance and new grass in Washington, D.C.
    * $360 million for sexually transmitted disease education
    * $50 million for the National Endowment of Arts
    * $726 million for an afterschool snack program
    * Office furniture for the public health service
    * More money for Amtrak

    "How any of this fits under the banner of economic stimulus is beyond me," Hensarling said. "I think it would prove to be beyond the American people as well."
    The 2007 collapse of the I-35W bridge spanning the Mississippi in Minneapolis, Minn. was the initial event that prompted some in the media to start calling for higher taxes and up to $1.6 trillion in government spending to update infrastructure. However, the $30 billion allocated in this proposal represents a tiny fraction of that number.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  3. #33
    Joined
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Speaking of an alternate reality...

    Pelosi: Stimulus Bipartisan, Obama Brilliant

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  4. #34
    Joined
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    While I appreciate what is being said, I'm finding that many economists are focussed on the financial side of the equation and how money should be put from one pocket to another.

    Almost none are talking anymore about growing the AMERICAN goods and services that gives U.S. Money value...and outsourcing and production are words that are becoming missing from these discussions. AFAIC many of these discussions are talking Vapor Bucks until these issues are addressed directly with a purpose...even with a bone in our teeth.
    Last edited by AeroSim; 01-25-2009 at 02:37 PM.

  5. #35
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    74,684

    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    More reading here

    http://cei.org/congress

  6. #36
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package


  7. #37
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    Crap. jimz- can we fix the title of this thread so it links to the ballooning dollar amount...or do we want to just throw $1.2T up there as a WAG on the final? $850B is, after all, 4 days old.

    But probably it should stay as a red flag as to where we started.

  8. #38
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    A PDF of the new CBO cost estimate.

    In my little dream world, every Republican, after fighting to get rid of as much of it as they can, would simply vote against this ridiculous spend-a-thon and let the Democrats approve it and own it with their majority.

  9. #39
    Joined
    Apr 2002
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    8,132

    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Anyone find a news report that the tarp requirements are going to be changed to exclude political influence? I heard the on the radio this morning.

    Also, interesting and good changes regarding cutting of associated programs, Obama meeting with the GOP, and calling the Dems to write out the contraception rider.

  10. #40
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Also, interesting and good changes regarding cutting of associated programs, Obama meeting with the GOP, and calling the Dems to write out the contraception rider.

    That’s a start but looking at the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 it certainly looks like a lot more pork and items not related to economic recovery should be cut.

    To me the bill looks like just another democratic/liberal big government, big spending special interest giveaway.

  11. #41
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    That’s a start but looking at the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 it certainly looks like a lot more pork and items not related to economic recovery should be cut.

    To me the bill looks like just another democratic/liberal big government, big spending special interest giveaway.
    Its a cut of less than a tenth of one per cent.

    Its a disgusting experience to read through the house bill and feel that government schlong creep further up your arse.

  12. #42
    Joined
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Aero

    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jimzinsocal
    http://readthestimulus.org/

    Crap. jimz- can we fix the title of this thread so it links to the ballooning dollar amount...or do we want to just throw $1.2T up there as a WAG on the final? $850B is, after all, 4 days old.

    But probably it should stay as a red flag as to where we started.


    The amounts are hard to fathom.
    Im still trying to convince myself I understand
    the concept of a trillion.
    Then again Im probably resistant to that many 0's
    10 to the 12th should remain in math textbooks...as a concept.
    Not something we associate with Government spending.


  13. #43
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Sorry if this is a repost. Still catching up.
    I dont get too excited about these things until we see the finished deal
    after the typical political back and forth.
    Anyway here

    http://gopleader.gov/News/DocumentSi...umentID=109402

  14. #44
    Joined
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    Oregon
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    35
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    6,499

    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    Sorry if this is a repost. Still catching up.
    I dont get too excited about these things until we see the finished deal
    after the typical political back and forth.
    Anyway here

    http://gopleader.gov/News/DocumentSi...umentID=109402
    Christ.

    Its pretty simple really.

    We are never going to get out of this mess until we find people who are more concerned about the welfare of the country than they are about their own political welfare.

    And I don't see that happening on either side of the aisle any time soon.

    So build that bunker and stimulate the economy

  15. #45
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Christ.

    Its pretty simple really.

    We are never going to get out of this mess until we find people who are more concerned about the welfare of the country than they are about their own political welfare.

    And I don't see that happening on either side of the aisle any time soon.

    So build that bunker and stimulate the economy
    Man do I get that. One area I'd hate to see a political one-up contest.

    In the meantime, I wonder if Joe the Plumber has been consulted yet....

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