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  1. #121
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  2. #122
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Billions in payoffs to his union pals and ACORN. But our troops get the shaft while fighting in 2 active war zones.




    RED ALERT: A trillion in pork, but Pentagon must cut 11%!

    BUMPED AND UPDATED 01/31/09 11:01AM: SEE RUNNING UPDATES BELOW.

    BREAKING 01/30/09 7:41PM ET: Fox News Television reports that Barack Obama has issued a demand that the Pentagon reduce its budget by more than 10%. The dollar figure is $55 billion.

    President Obama wants to spend a trillion dollars on welfare, condoms, international STD prevention, 600,000 new government jobs and handouts for illegal immigrants... but negative funding for the very mission his Presidential Oath required.

    Americans will die, needlessly, if this man gets his way.

    Overreach? He's already pulled his arm out of its socket.

    Here are the phone numbers for every U.S. Senator. Call now and demand -- with as much polite-itude as you can muster -- that they speak out against both the Porkulus package and this outrageous attempt to weaken America.

    Update: Connie B. noted that the requested budget cut is just "a start"!

    Update II: First mainstream media outlet to report appears to be InsideDefense (subscription) (hat tip: Ace): "'Substantial' Cut to FY-10 Budget Plan; Pentagon to Appeal"

    Update III: Tommy emails: "We're all dead men walking."

    Update IV: Iran. Nukes. Operation Starfish.

    Update V: Via Reuters, Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI) says that long-range U.S. antiballistic missile system should be scaled down as part of a belt-tightening.

    Update VI: Inside Defense: "[T]he Obama administration has directed Pentagon officials to pare back its original FY-10 topline proposal."

    Update VII: Fox News headline (1/30/09 23:30): "Defense Official: Obama Calling for Defense Budget Cuts":

    The Obama administration has asked the military's Joint Chiefs of Staff to cut the Pentagon's budget request for the fiscal year 2010 by more than 10 percent -- about $55 billion -- a senior U.S. defense official tells FOX News.

    Last year's defense budget was $512 billion. Service chiefs and planners will be spending the weekend "burning the midnight oil" looking at ways to cut the budget -- looking especially at weapons programs, the defense official said.

    Some overall budget figures are expected to be announced Monday.

    Obama met Friday at the White House with a small group of military advisers, including Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Gen. James Cartwright, vice chairman, and Gen. Jim Jones, National Security Council chairman.
    Update VIII: Let's do the math. The Porkulus package includes:

    $314 BILLION IN PAYOFFS TO DEMOCRAT CONSTITUENCIES

    • $83 billion in welfare payments (the earned income credit for people who don't pay income tax)
    • $81 billion for Medicaid
    • $66 billion on "education", more than the entire Department of Education required just ten years ago
    • $36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits
    • $20 billion for food stamps
    • $8 billion on "renewable energy" projects, which have a low or negative return
    • $7 billion for "modernizing federal buildings and facilities"
    • $6 billion on urban transit systems, dominated by unions and which, almost universally, lose money
    • $2.4 billion for "carbon-capture demonstration projects"
    • $2 billion for child-care subsidies
    • $1 billion for Amtrak, the federal railroad that's run in the red for 40 years
    • $650 million for "digital TV conversion coupons" (on top of billions already spent)
    • $600 million on new cars for government (added to the $3 billion already spent each year)
    • $400 million for "global-warming research"
    • $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts

    BUT NOT A PENNY FOR DEFENSE
    Update IX: Cold Fury, Environmental Republican, Gateway Pundit, Hot Air, Jawa, Just Barking Mad, SondraK, STACLU, TAB and Wizbang have updates.

    Update X: As of 10:02AM, no mainstream media outlets -- other than Fox News -- are reporting on this debacle. Although the wheezing New York Times ("Obama Cultivates Military") and the Philadelphia Inquirer ("Army announces rise in suicide rates for 2008") found time to report on more important issues this morning.

    Update XI: As of 10:26AM, an AP (via Yahoo News) headline reads "Under Obama, `war on terror' catchphrase fading."

    Update XII: At 11:01AM, Reliapundit noted: "LOOK AT IT THIS WAY: EVERYTHING IN THE BUDGET IS GETTING A 35% RAISE - EXCEPT DEFENSE, WHICH IS BEING CUT --- WHILE WE'RE AT WAR!"

    And still not a peep out of the mainstream media (other than Fox News).


    Labels: Obama, Protecting America
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  3. #123
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    When "special interests" are okey~dokey...

    Special Friends Get Special Breaks (Repost)

    All in the name of bread and circuses I suppose:

    National Journal reported this week that the Senate’s economic stimulus bill includes a provision that would make Hollywood studios eligible for a special 50% write-off of equipment purchases. According to the report, “the provision is backed by firms like the Walt Disney Co., and the industry trade group the Motion Picture Association of America.”
    About those “special interests” which “control Washington” and the promise of “no more!”

    Uh, yeah.

    So let’s see: Democrats object to cutting the U.S. 35% corporate tax rate — which is higher than in all of Europe, undermines economic growth and discourages job creation — for all companies on grounds that it favors the rich and powerful. But Democrats will carve out tax loopholes for businesses they like and that write them campaign checks.
    Hope and change.

    ~McQ
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  4. #124
    Joined
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    74,682

    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    read em and weep





    +93 K each.
    Sorta goes to my Middle Class thread where these government parasites that want to understand the rest of us basically see us as insect specimens. IMO

    ^^which I resent BTW

    Then again? If I had a + 93K increase in disposable cash to use as I like?
    Maybe I wouldnt have alot in common with all us "little people" either/
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 01-31-2009 at 03:58 PM.

  5. #125
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    When this "Economic Stimulus Package" lays a big egg all those Congressmen and Senators who voted against it are going to start looking very good.
    FRH
    If more sane people were armed the crazy ones would get off fewer shots.

    Win 7 Premium SP1 / MX 15 KDE / MEPIS 11

  6. #126
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Thats a roll of the dice probably. But man the +93 k for spending still fries my rump.
    I suppose the danger politically with whatever the stimulus package
    ends up looking like is when things do eventually turn around
    the government boobs will claim credit.
    Reminds me of the old joke about the triple type A control freak that
    woke up early and demanded that the Sun rise.
    And assumed after it had risen that it was a result of his demand.

  7. #127
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    ^^^ One point I'd like to see the Repugs bring up is an "end date". The recession might very well be over in 2 years with or without this sh*t sandwich stimulus. Many economists that oppose this huge spending bill say just that and much of the spending goes well beyond that time frame. So why is there no termination date for starting some of these blatantly "non-stimulating" programs. Ya.. we already know why.

    The media is already bending over backwards to congratulate the messiah... yes he's gonna get credit and conservatives will be demonized as obstructionists either way. I'm not seeing a downside fro the repugs and dems that joined them to oppose this bill. That aspect is gonna happen in the media either way.

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  8. #128
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Billions in payoffs to his union pals and ACORN. But our troops get the shaft while fighting in 2 active war zones.




    RED ALERT: A trillion in pork, but Pentagon must cut 11%!

    This is what happens when liberals are in controll.

    This was to be EXPECTED, they are totally anti-military.
    If they could do away with the military entirely, they would do it in an instant.
    The military costs them billions of dollars, that they want to spend on their social programs.

    We can spend millions for condoms, but gut the military to do it.

    More for condoms and more money for abortions.
    Dr. Seuss for 2011:I do not like this Uncle Sam, I do not like his health care scam. I do not like these dirty crooks, or how they lie and cook the books. I do not like when Congress steals, I do not like their secret deals. I do not like ex-speaker Nan, I do not like this 'YES WE CAN'..I do not like this spending spree, I'm smart, I know that nothing's free. I do not like their smug replies, when I complain about their lies. I do not like this kind of hope. I do not like it. Nope, nope, nope!

  9. #129
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Originally Posted by AAdjuster View Post
    This is what happens when liberals are in controll.

    This was to be EXPECTED, they are totally anti-military.
    If they could do away with the military entirely, they would do it in an instant.
    The military costs them billions of dollars, that they want to spend on their social programs.

    We can spend millions for condoms, but gut the military to do it.

    More for condoms and more money for abortions.
    Gut the military? Anti-military? Do away with it? Are you serious or just don't know how much we spend in relationship to other countries?



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar..._United_States
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  10. #130
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Gut the military? Anti-military? Do away with it? Are you serious or just don't know how much we spend in relationship to other countries?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar..._United_States
    Rather misleading statistics but I suspect you knew that already. Of course we spend more than other countries as the only remaining superpower. I suspect on a per capita basis that map would look a whole lot different.
    Brian

  11. #131
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    ^^^ The obvious rebuttal (if the dollar amount were actually the question) is that we are not other countries.

    I find it reprehensible that a president whom is attempting to throw billions of dollars at pork projects is also asking the military to take an 11% cut in funding while they are actively fighting wars in 2 countries.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  12. #132
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    10,841

    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Billions in payoffs to his union pals and ACORN. But our troops get the shaft while fighting in 2 active war zones.




    RED ALERT: A trillion in pork, but Pentagon must cut 11%!
    Too bad you seem to forget that funding for Iraq and Afghanistan are largely outside of the Pentagon budget and set by special appropriations....

    Or I suppose we can see it your way instead....

    Pentagon cuts...troops in Iraq and Afghanistan shafted...Obama....ACORN...Unions...where's the outrage??
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  13. #133
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Too bad you seem to forget that funding for Iraq and Afghanistan are largely outside of the Pentagon budget and set by special appropriations....

    Or I suppose we can see it your way instead....

    Pentagon cuts...troops in Iraq and Afghanistan shafted...Obama....ACORN...Unions...where's the outrage??
    Giving that old straw guy a workout today. Our troops are fighting wars in 2 separate theater's. Obama is looking to cut their budget by 11% while proposing to send potential billions to his special interest pals through the "stimulus".



    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  14. #134
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Originally Posted by bk94si View Post
    Rather misleading statistics but I suspect you knew that already. Of course we spend more than other countries as the only remaining superpower. I suspect on a per capita basis that map would look a whole lot different.
    Links in my post supplied full data for the chart including GDP % for anyone to read and comment. I really wasn't trying to hide anything nor sway an opinion. Just express mine. To your point, I've seen none on a per capita basis, but China is way less dollar wise as is any other country with a higher population than ours.

    We spent close to a trillion dollars over all last year. The base budget was $500 billion. A 10% cut makes the base Pentagon budget $450 billion. Still more than anyone else. Hardly a gut of the military.

    Here are other ways to look at it....

    A look at a GDP comparison:


    The above was from my previous links. Below is from http://www.militarybudget.info

    Another look at military spending around the world:


    A look at the Aero/defense index over time:

    Noted only because of the thread topic.

    I only broached this subject because of a statement that the military was hated and going to be gutted by such cuts, and the fact I used to work in DOD during Reagan's time. I saw waste and to tie a few debatable wasteful pork additions into a way to pay for the deficit spending is better rebutted below by William A. Owens, a retired Navy admiral who was the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff from 1994 to 1996:
    A Lean War Machine

    By WILLIAM A. OWENS
    Published: December 20, 2008

    CAN Barack Obama afford to keep the Defense Department’s budget at the extraordinary levels of the last seven years? With the spreading recession, the answer is no. Can he make cuts without jeopardizing national security and the safety of our troops? The answer is yes — but only if we demand that contractors, the four services and lawmakers make their own interests a lower priority and build a stronger military based on joint-service cooperation and real innovation.

    In 2008, the United States has spent nearly $700 billion on defense. That is more than twice as much as the next five militaries in the world combined. Half-a-trillion dollars went to the Pentagon’s “base budget” and $180 billion more paid for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even if both conflicts ended today, we would face continuing war costs, including those to replace equipment and tend to the wounded.

    The American war machine that swept away the Saddam Hussein regime was built during the eight years of the Clinton presidency for about $300 billion a year (adjusted for inflation). George W. Bush added more than a trillion dollars over the past eight years, not including money that went to Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Some may argue defense spending is just what we need in a recession, pointing to how the United States spent itself out of the Great Depression to fight World War II. But our economy has changed fundamentally since then, moving from an industrial base to a service and information base. And unlike in 1942, the American military today is already vastly superior to any other.

    The claim that continuing extraordinary military expenditures are good for the economy is false. There are much better Main Street investments to end the recession around (public works and education, to name a couple). There is no need to keep military spending level — the money is going largely to maintain a military that is increasingly less effective in meeting future security challenges, and hundreds of millions of dollars are squandered because of inefficiency, poor budgeting and greed.

    The saddest thing about this is that the Pentagon tends to make cuts by trying to stretch and shave existing programs. What President Dwight D. Eisenhower called the “military-industrial complex” is resurgent, this time driven by defense contractors. Their myopic drive to assure quarterly profits stifles innovation. And little changes because they wield inordinate influence through contracts in nearly every Congressional district.

    There is a better way, one that turns the necessity of cost reductions into a military more suited to the national security challenges we will face down the road. We need to realize the principles of what military planners called the “revolution of military affairs” of the mid-1990s. To do so calls for innovations in three areas: first, a joint-service perspective that emphasizes the interdependence of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps; second, investment that focuses on cutting-edge information technology systems that allow our forces to work together more effectively, rather than more spending on the complex and expensive major weapons systems of the past; and last, changes in the way the Pentagon goes about assessing its needs and contracting.

    “Jointness” can reduce redundancies: by acting separately, the services needlessly duplicate one another’s efforts in logistics, communications, intelligence, medical services and administration — not to mention several areas of war-fighting. Because each service operates its bases independently, we have far too many. Consolidating them into “megabases” would make for greater effectiveness and save tens of billions. Likewise, an emphasis on information technology can increase the strength of the force while it reduces the need for manpower, the single most expensive aspect of today’s military.

    We must eliminate the unjustified excesses of the military-industrial complex, the dangerous reticence in meeting the real challenges of the 21st century, and the inertia within the national security establishment. By restarting the revolution in military affairs, we can better support our national security and the men and women in our military, who deserve the very best that money can buy.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  15. #135
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    Re: The $825B Economic Stimulus Package

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Giving that old straw guy a workout today. Our troops are fighting wars in 2 separate theater's. Obama is looking to cut their budget by 11% while proposing to send potential billions to his special interest pals through the "stimulus".



    Scooter what's with the idiotic rebuttals today? Cuts to the Pentagon base budget do nothing to the side funding for Iraq and Afghanistan and as a result do not cause fear for our troops "fighting wars in 2 separate theater's". My earlier links explained the difference.

    The fact that I responded to a direct point you made (now twice) really makes your picture make me think more of the Wizard of Oz and your responses as having the same problem as the scarecrow did.

    I did notice you are changing your outrage tactic from "seems" to "potential" and miss the point that it is Congress, not Obama designing who gets what, that Obama is pushing for reform and tracking, that cuts are needed to pay for deficit spending, and that the base budget cuts (see my last post) if handled properly will not only do nothing but breed efficiency, but will still be higher than the Clinton budget that allowed the military to go into those two arenas in the first place....

    Hardly a gut, hardly a straw dog (including my interpretation of your position), and hardly an effect on Iraq and Afghanistan.
    Last edited by otoc; 02-01-2009 at 07:18 PM.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

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