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  1. #46
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    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/uaw...it-3-only-not/

    The Detroit Free Press is reporting that the United Auto Workers have reached a “tentative” agreement to modify its 2007 employment contract. But wait! “The UAW is withholding the terms of the tentative understanding pending completion of the VEBA discussions and ratification of the agreements,” says UAW boss Ron Gettelfinger. But give them the money anyway, is the clear subtext. Or, as the Freep puts it “the announcement by the UAW on Tuesday shows that the union and the companies are making significant progress.” When asked by the Freep, GM’s Rick Wagoner couldn’t even give a number just now. Wagoner claims that they went into talks with “ambitious” plans. And now there are now details. But everything’s peachy! GM’s take (from the viability plan): “As of February 17, the Company and the UAW have made significant progress on costs/work rules, which represent major steps in narrowing the 8 competitive gap. However, these revisions do not achieve all of the labor cost savings comprehended in the Company‘s financial projections.”
    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bai...ernment-funds/

    Automotive News [sub] is reporting that GM’s new viability plan includes a request for an additional $22.5b in government funds. Without this money GM would run out of operating cash by sometime March. GM’s plan also calls for cutting 47,000 jobs globally by the end of 2009 and shuttering five unspecified US factories by 2012. GM CEO Rick Wagoner just thanked government officials “around the world” for “their openness.”

    As Farago noted earlier, GM received tranche deux of its already-approved $13.4b loan today. They also request $4.6b per their December 2 request to round it all out to an even $18b. There’s also a request for $4.5b to pay of a revolving credit line that comes due in the fall of 2011. And then there’s the request for a $7.5b line of credit GM could tap “if” sales worsen over the next two years. This would bring GM’s taxpayer butcher’s bill to about $30b dollars. Incredibly, GM expects to begin repaying these loans by 2012.

    GM also predicts that its North American operations will break even at an annual market rate of 11.5m to 12m units. Interesting. “The operating and balance sheet improvements outlined in GM’s viability plan are forecasted to result in a significant enterprise value and positive net present value, positive adjusted EBIT in 2010 and positive operating cash flow for its North American operations in the same year.”
    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/chr...to-chapter-11/

    Chrysler has just released its 177-page “Viability Plan.” It will no doubt take plenty of time to go through (and this, of course, was unintentional on Chrysler’s part). In the interim, some highlights:

    —Chrysler wants $5 billion by the end of March for “working capital and other operating expenses.” This would mean a total bailout purse of $9 billion, an increase over the $7 billion requested in December.

    —The theme is “pay us now or it’s going to cost you more money than you can possibly imagine— or print.” This sounds suspiciously like like some word I learned once. Axtortion? No. Extourtan? What was it?

    —There’s plenty of bankruptcy and liquidation analysis, projecting what the costs would be if they went bust.

    —The “Stand Alone” business plan includes a $600 million profit in 2010, followed by a loss of the same amount in 2011, then another loss of $600 million in 2012, then a break-even year in 2013, followed by a projected $1B in profits in 2014.

    —24 product launches in 48 months. I can only assume they are counting different paint colors as individual product launches.

    —Fiat could, in theory, take another 20% stake of Chrysler for a majority share of 55%.

    —”No American taxpayer money would go to Fiat.” Semantics.
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...se-it-out.html

    Saturn: Dealers Hope to Keep Name Alive, GM Plans to Phase It Out

    In a press conference to explain GM's plan for profitability, CEO Rick Wagoner said that without outside investment, Saturn would be phased out in 2011.

    Saturn's dealers have a different plan. In a story in the Wall Street Journal, Dan Januska, a member of the Saturn Dealer Council, said they were considering a plan that would spin Saturn dealers off from GM.

    In that plan, Saturn dealers would continue to buy vehicles from GM until the current product lifecycles run out. After that, the dealers would consider buying vehicles from third parties and rebadge them as Saturns. "There are not a whole lot of alternatives," said Mr. Januska, who is on the Saturn Dealer Council. "Someone is going to see the value of us and I don't know who it will be."
    http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...edit.html#more
    Promote then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.

  2. #47
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    Colorafornia, USSA
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    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    Saturn is dead? Pontiac is also...mostly?

    http://jalopnik.com/5155377/gm-to-of...ost-of-pontiac

  3. #48
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Twain Harte, CA
    Posts
    20,424

    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    This would bring GM’s taxpayer butcher’s bill to about $30b dollars.
    Isn't that about the price for the down payment on Harry Reid's "bring California cash to Las Vegas" train? I know, its apples and oranges, but with all this cash flyin' around, $30 billion is beginning to sound like chump change.

    But I get this much of it. We all drive cars and understand them somewhat. We don't understand imaginary trains very well.

  4. #49
    Joined
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    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    Abandon Ship! Abandon Ship! Abandon Ship!

  5. #50
    Joined
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    74,682

    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    Between Chrysler and GM they are looking for alot of fed money.
    After listening to the GM proposal?
    Im still mixed on the issue. Part of me says to hell with them
    and part of me starts imagining the layoffs that will result....if they dont get $.
    So? for me its a gamble either way.
    Whats pathetic is GM doing the green dance in order to get cash.

  6. #51
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    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    GM just announced they're killing their High Performance Vehicle Operations division. No more V-Series Caddys, the ONLY Caddy I'd ever consider buying. No more SS Chevy's or any other car that might actually set GM apart from other manufacturers. GM is quite obviously now trying to be as much like Toyota as they can. Pathetic. Toyota will continue to mop the floor with them until the taxpayer handouts finally stop, which I can only hope will be very soon.

    Newsflash GM, if I want a reliable car that gets good gas mileage and costs under $25k new, I roll right past all of your brands and head to Honda, Nissan or even Hyundai. You won't get a dime of my money as I've driven too many of your shitboxes in the past. The ONLY way I'll consider buying one of your cars is if it offers something more than a Honda or Hyundai or Nissan. Performance, good looks, and a good price. The Pontiac G8, the Cadillac CTS-V, the SS division of Chevy are good examples of setting yourself apart from what everyone else is offering. Without these you are Toyota...without the good reputation.

    http://jalopnik.com/tag/high-perform...ns/?id=5156124

  7. #52
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    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    Between Chrysler and GM they are looking for alot of fed money.
    After listening to the GM proposal?
    Im still mixed on the issue. Part of me says to hell with them
    and part of me starts imagining the layoffs that will result....if they dont get $.
    So? for me its a gamble either way.
    Whats pathetic is GM doing the green dance in order to get cash.
    I know what your saying, and even one that would be directly effected by GM's condition. But I think the U.S should let nature take it's course, when businesses make bad calls they tank. Nobody would give a f--- if some mom and pop shop were going out of business.
    I honestly think their fate is inevitable, whether they pull the plug now or later.
    They dug their own grave... enough said.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  8. #53
    Joined
    Nov 2001
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    E n g l a n d
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    10,978

    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    There's not enough room in the lifeboat for all of these car companies. At least one of them needs to be pitched over the side to save the others.

  9. #54
    Joined
    Sep 2008
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    Crazy AZ USA
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    3,516

    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    Quote Originally Posted by Enmore View Post
    There's not enough room in the lifeboat for all of these car companies. At least one of them needs to be pitched over the side to save the others.
    If it had to be- I would pick GM. That's probably why it would be someone else.

  10. #55
    Joined
    Nov 2001
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    E n g l a n d
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    10,978

    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    Saab board in emergency meeting

    The board of the Swedish carmaker Saab, which is owned by General Motors, is holding an extraordinary board meeting to consider its future.

    Local media reports have suggested Saab is considering taking measures to seek protection from creditors.

    There have been doubts about the future of Saab since the Swedish government rebuffed GM's call for financial aid for the car maker.

    GM plans to make Saab an independent business by the start of 2010.

    The reorganisation process is the Swedish equivalent of going into Chapter 11 bankruptcy in the US.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7899244.stm?lss

  11. #56
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    5,358

    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    GM is basically trying to extort money from the US government and is also trying to use Saab to extort money from the Swedish government. Some big companies need to go down, perhaps the time has come for GM.

  12. #57
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    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    Quote Originally Posted by Enmore View Post
    There's not enough room in the lifeboat for all of these car companies. At least one of them needs to be pitched over the side to save the others.
    I see it like this, Ford made the right calls which is why they're not in the trouble GM is. GM and Chrysler are done; bailing them out is like performing CPR on a dead body.
    Last edited by JustinC939; 02-19-2009 at 02:12 PM.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  13. #58
    Joined
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    74,682

    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    ^^Probably correct. But? CPR will be performed on GM and Chrysler.
    No way is Obama going to have two huge, Union hurting blemishes on his report card.

  14. #59
    Joined
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    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    ^^Probably correct. But? CPR will be performed on GM and Chrysler.
    No way is Obama going to have two huge, Union hurting blemishes on his report card.
    It's a shame, but if Obama pulled the plug on them I along with many other Americans would likely praise his actions. It's what has to be done.
    Nobody, not the UAW, management, nor the retirees want to take a cut in wages/benefits. And as a result they'll have nothing.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  15. #60
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    26,265

    Re: Big 3 Auto bailout, A.K.A. Thank a Union

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    ^^Probably correct. But? CPR will be performed on GM and Chrysler.
    No way is Obama going to have two huge, Union hurting blemishes on his report card.

    Yup.. the unions paid for his presidency. And they are in line to get a HUGE ROI.

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


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