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  1. #151
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    Another ridiculous claim shot to sh*t..

    Holder's "Hundreds" of Successful Terror Prosecutions Claim Crumbles

    Yesterday afternoon I tweeted:

    Friday document dump. DOJ releases terror prosecution stats: http://is.gd/b0Gco #tcot
    Because I just knew that if DOJ was going public with the information late on a Friday afternoon, it would be bad for AG Holder. The Obama Administration has had a Friday document dump almost every week for a year, where they try to bury bad news. Yesterday's was no different.

    But the claim that there are 403 terrorists in custody is absurd. DOJ arrives at this figure by counting what it describes as two categories of case. The first involves real terrorism charges. Sounds fair enough, but what types of "terrorism charges" are they counting? Well they include, for example, convictions under statutes barring "Animal Enterprise Terrorism," "Narco-terrorism," "crimes against internationally protected persons" (which can be terrorism-related but are not necessarily), hostage-taking (ditto), and offenses like harboring terrorists and material support to terrorism (which are surely terrorism-related, and involve assistance provided to terrorists, but are charges generally brought against facilitators, not actual terrorists).

    Not exactly KSM. But these Category I cases, though they blatantly goose up DOJ's numbers, don't account for most of DOJ's claimed 403 terrorists. Over sixty percent belong to "Category II," which Justice, without a hint of apology, describes as follows:

    Category II cases include defendants charged with violating a variety of other statutes where the investigation involved an identified link to international terrorism. These Category II cases include offenses such as those involving fraud, immigration, firearms, drugs, false statements, perjury, and obstruction of justice, as well as general conspiracy charges [i.e., cases that charge other kinds of conspiracies, not terrorism conspiracies].
    So Holder's idiotic claim that the criminal justice system is suited to trying Al Qaeda terrorists, particularly the Guantanamo Bay detainees, comes crumbling down. Unless they're planning to charge KSM with perjury, they'd be better off sticking with military tribunals.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  2. #152
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    Ya.. about that GITMO promise..

    Krauthammer: So, that KSM trial in New York probably isn’t happening now, huh?

    A minor point at the moment given the gravity of the threat posed on Saturday, but a good one nonetheless. Where I think CK might be wrong is his theory that this’ll lead to Gitmo staying open an extra year or two as well. After they back down on a civilian trial for KSM, Team Barry will need some sort of political victory in this area to atone to its base. Not that they’re getting any heat about it — you’re more likely to see lefty protesters heckling Obama over “don’t ask, don’t tell” these days than the supposed atrocity that is Guantanamo — but as Ben Smith recently noted, Obama’s a guy who likes to double down when challenged. In fact, given the certainty of big GOP gains in the fall, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the White House start a new push to close Gitmo and transfer the prisoners to a mainland facility this summer. Sure, the politics will be dicey, but the bigger the looming Republican tidal wave, the less congressional Democrats have to lose by playing ball. Their huge majority will be gone in six months; why not put it to use? Worst-case scenario, I think there’ll be some sort of deal after the midterms but before the new Congress is seated, when all the lame-duck Blue Dogs can “vote their conscience” or whatever.

    Needless to say, there’s no guarantee yet that the NYC plotter is a foreign terrorist so Gitmo might not even be in the picture. In fact, steadfast Fox News lefty Bob Beckel has his eye on right-wing militiamen as being the real culprits… Click the image to watch.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  3. #153
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    Obama simply needs to admit GITMO is the best solution for a complicated problem.

    Good News on Gitmo

    Politico reports the House has denied funding to bring Gitmo to the United States:

    President Barack Obama’s hopes of closing the Guantanamo Bay prison for terror suspects is slipping further away.The defense authorization bill approved 59-0 by the House Armed Services Committee late Wednesday night contains language barring funding to build or convert any facility in the U.S. to accept former Guantanamo detainees.

    Such a provision could scuttle Obama’s plan to close Guantanamo by purchasing a state prison in Thomson, Ill., to house some of those now at Gitmo. The administration had sought $350 million in Department of Defense funding for Guantanamo-related closure and transfer expenses and an additional $237 million in Department of Justice funding for the Thomson site, including paying the state for the jail.

    “The committee firmly believes that the construction or modification of any facility in the U.S. to detain or imprison individuals currently being held at Guantanamo must be accompanied by a thorough and comprehensive plan that outlines the merits, costs and risks associated with utilizing such a facility. No such plan has been presented to date,” according to a summary released by the House Armed Services Committee.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  4. #154
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    GITMO = still open for business. And the guys we've let go are still going back to the same old business of trying to kill us. For those among us a lil slow, Militancy = MSM for terrorism.

    25 Saudi Guantanamo prisoners return to militancy

    (Reuters) - Around 25 former detainees from Guantanamo Bay camp returned to militancy after going through a rehabilitation program for al Qaeda members in Saudi Arabia, a Saudi security official said on Saturday.

    World | Saudi Arabia

    The United States have sent back around 120 Saudis from the detention camp at the U.S. naval base in Cuba, set up after the U.S. launched a "war on terror" following the September 11 attacks by mostly Saudi suicide hijackers sent by al Qaeda.

    Saudi Arabia, the world's top oil exporter, has put the returned prisoners along with other al Qaeda suspects through a rehabilitation program which includes religious re-education by clerics and financial help to start a new life.

    The scheme, which some 300 extremists have attended, is part of anti-terrorism efforts after al Qaeda staged attacks inside the kingdom from 2003-06. These were halted after scores of suspects were arrested with the help of foreign experts.

    Around 11 Saudis from Guantanamo have gone to Yemen, an operating base for al Qaeda, while others have been jailed again or killed after attending the program, said Abdulrahman al-Hadlaq, Director General of the General Administration for Intellectual Security overseeing the rehabilitation.

    He pinpointed strong personal ties among former prisoners but also tough U.S. tactics as the reason why some 20 percent of the returned Saudis relapsed into militancy compared to 9.5 percent of other participants in the rehabilitation program.

    "Those guys from other groups didn't suffer torture before, the non-Guantanamos (participants). Torturing is the most dangerous thing in radicalization. You have more extremist people if you have more torture," Hadlaq told reporters in a rare briefing about Saudi anti-terrorism efforts.

    REHABILITATION SCHEME "A SUCCESS"

    Despite the setback with Guantanamo prisoners, Saudi Arabia regards the rehabilitation scheme, which kicks in after militants have served a prison term, as a success.

    "There is no doubt that there is an effect," Hadlaq said.

    U.S. President Barack Obama ordered the camp shut after taking office in January 2009 but his plans have been stymied. There are now about 180 detainees left, among them 13 Saudis. At its peak, the camp held about 780 detainees.

    More than 2,000 sympathizers of al Qaeda are still in prison in Saudi Arabia. Some 2,000 teachers have been removed from classrooms for their extremist views in the past five years while 400 teachers are in prison, Hadlaq said.

    Saudi Arabia plans to build five more rehabilitation centers which will be able to accommodate 250 people each, he said.

    The expansion plans are partly to cope with the eventual release of 991 suspected al Qaeda militants whom the authorities said in October were awaiting trial for 30 attacks since 2003.

    In July, a Saudi court sentenced one unnamed Islamist to death and handed out to others jail terms of up to 30 years in the first publicly reported trials since the arrests.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  5. #155
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    Don't hear much about this grand plan, or was it campaign promise, or could it have been lie, these days.......
    "Walk Heavy, Stand Tall, Carry a Big Stick"
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  6. #156
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    GITMO = still open for business. And the guys we've let go are still going back to the same old business of trying to kill us. For those among us a lil slow, Militancy = MSM for terrorism.

    25 Saudi Guantanamo prisoners return to militancy





    While you were being smug I think you missed the bit where the Saudis blamed Gitmo for making them that militant:

    He pinpointed strong personal ties among former prisoners but also tough U.S. tactics as the reason why some 20 percent of the returned Saudis relapsed into militancy compared to 9.5 percent of other participants in the rehabilitation program.

    "Those guys from other groups didn't suffer torture before, the non-Guantanamos (participants). Torturing is the most dangerous thing in radicalization. You have more extremist people if you have more torture," Hadlaq told reporters in a rare briefing about Saudi anti-terrorism efforts.
    (I'll gloss over the use of torture by the Saudis which does kinda dent that theory.)


    M

  7. #157
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    ^^^ Jail turns criminals into criminals, Got it.

  8. #158
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    While you were being smug I think you missed the bit where the Saudis blamed Gitmo for making them that militant:



    (I'll gloss over the use of torture by the Saudis which does kinda dent that theory.)


    M

    1st... call it smug if you like. I simply see it as calling out our completely void of executive experience or legislative accomplishments Post turtle of a C&C that had no clue what he was getting into when he made the promise to close GITMO 1.5+ years ago.

    2nd... I did not "gloss over" the Saudis blaming GITMO. I simply dismissed it as the utter rubbish it is. Kind of like inmates blaming the penal system as the reason behind the crime they are currently doing time for. Which came first.. the Jihad or GITMO?
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  9. #159
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    NYSlimes... it's the thought that counts....

    Closing Guantánamo Fades as a Priority

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  10. #160
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    1st.....I did not "gloss over" the Saudis blaming GITMO. I simply dismissed it as the utter rubbish it is. Kind of like inmates blaming the penal system as the reason behind the crime they are currently doing time for. Which came first.. the Jihad or GITMO?
    Well they gotta blame something - much easier than addressing the core issue.......let's just stay in denial forever.....
    "Walk Heavy, Stand Tall, Carry a Big Stick"
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  11. #161
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    Surprise... surprise... surprise... NOT.

    Uighur Al Qaeda Affiliate Implicated in International Plot
    So much for the TIP’s alleged “China only” focus.


    Last week, the details of the plot to bomb New York City subways in 2009 expanded dramatically. We learned that the NYC plot was connected to two others, in the UK and Norway, and that all three can be traced back to senior al Qaeda leadership in northern Pakistan. The reporting on the Norway branch of this attempted terrorist trifecta included an interesting nugget of information. Here is how the New York Times reported it yesterday (emphasis added):

    The arrests on Thursday of three men in Norway and Germany accused of orchestrating a terrorist bomb plot seemed like another routine raid by a Western government in the continuing campaign against groups linked to Al Qaeda. But one detail stuck out: Norwegian officials said one of the men was a Chinese Uighur, and all three supposedly belonged to a group that advocates separatism in western China.

    If the Norwegian officials are right, the bomb plot was a rare instance in which the group, the Turkestan Islamic Party, had tried to carry out an attack in the West that was unrelated to its goal of gaining independence for the restive region of Xinjiang, in China’s hinterlands.

    Terrorism experts say the plot in Norway indicates that Al Qaeda and the few members of the Turkestan Islamic Party, or TIP, who trained in the tribal areas of Pakistan see some mutual benefit in cooperating. The use of relatively obscure ethnic Uighur recruits could allow Al Qaeda to penetrate more deeply into the West.
    Back when I first wrote about the Uighurs held at Guantanamo, I noted that they were all members or associates of the TIP. (See here and here, for example.) They had all been trained at the TIP’s camp in the Tora Bora Mountains, and most of them had admitted ties to senior TIP leaders during their hearings at Gitmo.

    Despite these facts, there was talk of releasing the Uighurs held at Gitmo into the Washington, D.C. area because it was assumed their terrorist organization had no interest in attacking non-Chinese targets. As the Norway example demonstrates, that isn’t true.

    In fact, the TIP’s evolution is typical for al Qaeda’s affiliates. They start off as “local” terrorist and extremist groups, but are then folded into Osama bin Laden’s international jihad – pooling their resources, personnel, training facilities, and arms into one jihadist pot. These “local” affiliates invariably end up fighting on behalf of al Qaeda in conflicts that have little to do with their original purpose. The chief reason for this transformation is ideological. Once they become committed to fighting Islam’s supposed enemies in one area of the world, it is a short step to waging jihad against Islam’s supposed enemies elsewhere. Their ideology transcends local grievances.

    The TIP’s transformation follows this pattern. As the U.S. State Department has noted, “two [TIP] members were deported to China from Kyrgyzstan for plotting to attack the US Embassy in Kyrgyzstan as well as other US interests abroad” in May of 2002. Foggy Bottom has also noted that TIP members fought alongside Taliban and al Qaeda terrorists in Afghanistan against coalition forces in late 2001. Moreover, the TIP’s chieftain, Abdul Haq, was so closely tied to Osama bin Laden and Ayman al Zawahiri before his demise that he was named to al Qaeda’s elite Shura council.

    Now we learn that TIP members were involved in an international plot in Norway that was tied to a plot against New York City.

    So much for the TIP’s alleged “China only” focus.

    There is one more point worth mentioning. As the Times account notes, there are some “Western scholars” who doubt the TIP’s existence: “They say officials have never produced evidence that actually proves the group’s existence.” This is nonsense, but it has even been repeated by some members of Congress.

    All one has to do is watch a couple of the organization’s propaganda videos on YouTube to see that not only does the group exist, it is deadly serious and does not hide its jihadist ideology. If that isn’t enough for some reason, consider: the United Nations and U.S. designations of the TIP, the captured TIP members (a few countries, including Pakistan, have caught TIP members in the act), the corpses of dead TIP leaders killed in northern Pakistan, the defunct training camp in the Tora Bora Mountains, the U.S. State Department’s reporting, etc.

    Despite all of this, and more, some congressmen and scholars doubt the TIP’s existence. The plot in Norway proves, once again, that they are simply wrong.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  12. #162
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    Ya... others politicized his trial. Explain to me again why the Bamma DOJ felt it was necessary to have this guy in civilian courts.



    Holder blames politicization for keeping KSM out of civilian courtroom

    Had the Obama administration not stopped the military commissions that Congress approved three times over, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed would already have had his case adjudicated. Instead, Barack Obama stopped the commissions, which led KSM to withdraw his guilty plea in order to take his show into a federal courtroom. Now, Holder tells CBS that the only reason KSM hasn’t faced justice is because of politics:

    In an exclusive interview with CBS News chief Washington correspondent Bob Schieffer on CBS’ “Face the Nation,” Attorney General Eric Holder said that political posturing has delayed some of the administration’s top priorities — bringing self-proclaimed Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed to trial and closing the prison and Guantanamo Bay.

    Holder said the administration will make a decision as to where [the KSM] trial will occur “as soon as we can.”

    “But we are bound and determined to hold Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and those who worked with him… responsible for happened on September 11,” he told Schieffer during the interview, which took place at the Aspen Ideas Festival in Aspen, Colo.

    Holder wants to try Mohammed in civilian court, but some otherssay the trial should take place in the military tribunal system. The Obama administration is still in the process of determining what course of action to take, but Holder expressed frustration over the debate.

    “One of the things I think that is particularly bothersome to me is that this really has become something that has become political,” Holder told Schieffer. “And politicization of this issue, when we’re dealing with ultimate national security issues, is something that disturbs me a great deal.”
    Now it disturbs him? This would have been wrapped up more than 18 months ago if Obama and Holder had stuck with the system that Congress designed — three different times. Instead, Obama wanted to score political points at the expense of his predecessor and canceled the trial — even though the White House later conceded that they would have to use the military commission system for other Gitmo detainees.

    The only people who politicized this process are those in the Obama administration who insisted on delaying KSM’s commission for their own political goals. I’m not sure whether this is more chutzpah than projection, but it’s certainly both.
    Idiot..

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  13. #163
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    Taking odds that Gitmo will still be open for business when Mr. One term leaves office.

    Obama: Gitmo gives al-Qaeda a talking point

    In an otherwise rather dull and dreary press conference, Barack Obama offered this old saw on the need to close the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay as part of a string of reasons — in answer to a question as to why he hasn’t done much at all on his promised closure of the facility. Obama talks about the cost of maintaining Gitmo, even though almost all of those costs were paid up front in the construction of the facility, but then reminds us that al-Qaeda doesn’t much like Gitmo, either:



    You can’t underestimate the impact of that. Uh, you know, al-Qaeda operatives still cite Guantanamo as a justification for attacks against the United States.
    Well, we opened the Gitmo facility after 9/11, when AQ murdered almost 3,000 people in a series of attacks. Was that a pre-emptive strike against opening Gitmo as a detention facility? Did their attacks on American assets abroad rely on that justification from 1993 to 2000, when they attacked the USS Cole in Yemen? Since we opened Gitmo, AQ has attacked a number of other nations which don’t have a detention facility at Gitmo or one like it. AQ also justifies its attacks on the basis that we support Israel and haven’t converted to an Islamic theocracy. Should we meet those demands as well?

    It’s an asinine justification, one that is both intellectually and strategically bankrupt. If Gitmo doesn’t serve our national-security purposes, then make that argument outside of the rantings of lunatic terrorists as a basis for policy. If Obama can’t do that, then perhaps it’s time to move on from the Gitmo debate altogether and proceed with the military tribunals and trials that his administration interrupted and can’t seem to get back on track. As far as working with Congress on those issues, Congress has now three times authorized military tribunals for the 9/11 plotters and other terrorists captured abroad. It doesn’t take Congress to get those trials moving — it just takes an executive that stops interfering in the process.
    Gubbernin' is teh hard..
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  14. #164
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Taking odds that Gitmo will still be open for business when Mr. One term leaves office.

    Obama: Gitmo gives al-Qaeda a talking point

    Gubbernin' is teh hard..
    What a baseless load of sh!t.
    "Walk Heavy, Stand Tall, Carry a Big Stick"
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  15. #165
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    Re: Shutting down Guantanamo Bay

    What the? What's this thread still doing here? BO said he was closing Gitmo down and since he never breaks a promise that means it's closed so therefore this thread should be closed too.

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