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  1. #1
    Joined
    Nov 2003
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    Corruptfornia
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    3,786

    Let's talk California

    OK..The biggest economy in the union is broke. The Gov tried to get
    some props passed Tuesday, those failed as any who had a lick of
    sense knew they would. The Feds are telling Ca, forget it. No
    dough. Now the Gov is talking about selling landmarks. Ok. What
    went wrong ? I'm putting it on the Dems, the Unions, and the
    way the the majority party in Sac kept and keeps spending money
    we don't have on . Now's there's talk of cutting welfare programs,
    health care for kids, collage grant help, etc. Ck it out.

    http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/loc...3Fsource%3Drss

    I have no probs with this. Why ? Simple. Why should I and others who
    are out there busting their ass's to make a dime support those who
    don't even try to play the game right ?

    Being a two-bit school bus driver, all the time I hear from other
    drivers " We need 15 to 40 breakfasts'" for kids when we get to
    whatever school ! When did the school system turn into a
    cafeteria ? My ex moved out here to Ca after she messed up
    her back in Ok, because this state gives out of the generous
    beni's. I'm flat tired of supporting illegals as well all who have
    ever wasted time reading my posts on the matter know..

    So how do we, the working stiffs, fix Ca ?

    One inquring mind wants to hear suggestion, etc.

    Oh by the way, for those out here in Ca, watch out for a bill
    from a Dem that would require SMOG TESTS EVERY YEAR !

    AB 859 is the bill number. From some clown named Cook.

    If the MODS feel this should go to the Economic thread, I hear ya.
    Last edited by no2guncntrl; 05-22-2009 at 09:14 PM.

  2. #2
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    West Richland, WA
    Posts
    6,397

    Re: Let's talk California

    That's why I got out of CA 17 years ago. Best move I ever made. I miss the beach (Huntington Beach) but other than that good riddance. Washington isn't too far behind CA but the state government here doesn't have their hand in my back pocket quite as far as they did in CA (no state income tax). I made more money in CA but between real estate prices and lower taxes, I have a much higher standard of living in WA.
    Brian

  3. #3
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    25,135

    Re: Let's talk California

    The states with the highest taxes are hurting the worst for a reason. Chase off your tax base and you better be prepared to reap the consequences. We've seen the special interests get their way at our expense for decades. Now that the bill is coming due... they wanna cut everywhere but the special internists.. it's a f*cking Greek tragedy in the making.

    Carter also said legislators need to do a better job of explaining to constituents what their tax dollars pay for.
    Ya.. we shot down your proposed tax hikes because the avalanche of special interest advertising just prior to the special election really left us with any doubts where the majority of our tax $$ is spent.

    The Fed (See: Obama) is already changing the free market rules to accommodate the UAW. Secured shareholders got punted. Who would be dumb enough to invest in US automakers now? Goverment motors.. here we come. Think it'll be any different if bondholders get the shaft?


    Sen. Gloria Negrete McLeod said in an e-mail Wednesday, she fought to make sure education would receive its full share of funding.
    As no2guncntrl noted... this article is a few years old but gets the point across nicely.

    Illegal Immigration Costs California Over Ten Billion Annually
    State's "cheap labor" costs average household $1,183 a year


    Among the key finding of the report are that the state's already struggling K-12 education system spends approximately $7.7 billion a year to school the children of illegal aliens who now constitute 15 percent of the student body. Another $1.4 billion of the taxpayers' money goes toward providing health care to illegal aliens and their families, the same amount that is spent incarcerating illegal aliens criminals.
    Where I say... oh where can we cut costs...?? Never happen. But gives ya a good idea why we are in the mess we are in. The borders will remain open.. illegals will continue to spit out anchor babies like a pez dispenser.

    We're pretty much hosed. Our far left legislature (that includes our union friendly gubbenator) will make cuts everywhere but where they should be made.

    Emmerson also said that California's government spending is still based on levels that were approved when the state was growing fat from tax revenues generated during the dot.com boom of the late 1990s.

    He said Tuesday was a wake up call for Sacramento to bring spending in line with current income.

    "I think it's going to make us look at the structural issues, which we should have done a long time ago," Emmerson said.
    Who wants to make a bet they simply kick the can down the road? Any takers? We'll end up taking any and all fed money offered... Arnie will rob the local municipalities and the unions with their unsustainable pension plans and other special interests will continue to get their $$$.

    Editorial: Reform needed in California public employee pensions

    In short.. we're f*cked.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  4. #4
    Joined
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Arizona's White Mountains
    Age
    70
    Posts
    3,605

    Re: Let's talk California

    "Let's talk California" ... please not while I'm eating.
    FRH
    If more sane people were armed the crazy ones would get off fewer shots.

    Win 7 Premium SP1 / MX 15 KDE / MEPIS 11

  5. #5
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Twain Harte, CA
    Posts
    18,414

    Re: Let's talk California

    Do you remember the discussion here about California deciding to use $6 billion of tax payer's money to fund stem cell research?

    Or the $10 billion to jump start a high speed train from Los Angeles to Las Vegas?

    Good or bad, both of these things were done when the state was in financial trouble and are not unlike a laid off worker buying a new Mercedes Benz on credit.

    People here are pissed off and don't know what they can do about the outrageous restrictions and the reckless spending being laid down in Sacramento.

    Can't drill for oil off the coast. Can't turn away illegal immigrants. Can't build anything without a torturous environmental process that may leave you dead in the water. Everything has a tax or fee. Its an overwhelming cluster-f**k.

    On the bright side, we have growth industries. Medical marijuana and bankruptcy attorneys, for example.

    Laugh at us if you choose, its understandable. But keep in mind, your country's management team is following the California formula.

    The best proposal I've heard so far... eliminate every state program that's been started in the past ten years... immediately and in its entirety. That would be a good first step.

  6. #6
    Joined
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Kern River Valley, CA
    Age
    68
    Posts
    13,187

    Re: Let's talk California

    Of course California environmental extremists play a big part in the destruction of the state.

    For example we have the Sacramento Delta Smelt that must be protected at all costs.

    California, feds at odds over Delta smelt
    http://www.sacbee.com/288/story/1847...20State%20News

    The results will be at least a 1.8 billion dollar loss this year alone to agriculture, dairy industry and meat producers in the San Joaquin Valley south of Sacramento. That means higher prices at the market for just about everything we buy. Watch for southern California water rationing soon.

    Then we have this little morsel:

    Ending fish plants in the Kern River????

    http://people.bakersfield.com/home/B...eswenson/37788

    This will cause at least a 30% loss in revenue to local merchants. All to protect a fish that isn’t endangered. All it takes is a short drive up the river to be smack dab in the middle of the Golden Trout reserve. The rules there are very stringent and the golden trout is still flourishing.

    Between the environmentalists and the Sierra Club it’s enough to drive anybody frigging nuts…

    We all want conservation but a little damn commonsense sure would be appropriate and in order.


    btw… California has not built any significant amount of water storage or water conveyance since voters approved the State Water Project in the 1960s’. The state and the environmental weenies might want to think about spending some of that 16+++ billion they’re wasting in discretionary spending on that. It’s just a matter of time until man is an endangered species in the southern half of the state…Heh, that might be a good thing…
    Last edited by tucker; 05-23-2009 at 09:20 PM.

  7. #7
    Joined
    Jun 2003
    Location
    SO CAL USA
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,598

    Re: Let's talk California

    The illegals cost to the state stated above is very likely WAY underestimated,I believe I saw an estimate that stated 9-12 billion on health care alone. Im sure the 24 billion shortage could quite easily be eliminated by immediately stopping the cash flow to illegals.No medical,no schooling,no welfare.Not to mention the jobs they take.In my area 75% of the mechanics are illegal,never mind they have no clue what theyre doing,nor are they ASE or any kind of certified. $32k fine for an uncertified AC job certainly is starting to change some tunes around here.
    Asrock 990FX FX8120 8G Gskill 2133 2x WD2T 6.0 pc p+c 950w
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  8. #8
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Oregon
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    38
    Posts
    6,499

    Re: Let's talk California

    Its California, its local, and its about illegal immigration, and its early so it doesn't surprise me that this hasn't really been picked up on yet. But I just wanted to bring this to folks attention because it is one of the few things we all seem to agree on.

    Our beloved governor did a lot of talking this weekend. One thing is clear. He is a democrat now. A very bad democrat but a democrat at that. Which starts to make me wonder if he has given up on being governor and is preparing for his post-gubernatorial legacy as an ambassador or some other BS job that'll keep in in the public eye, maybe even with the BHO administration.

    http://www.sacbee.com/392/story/1923957.html

    Some of the things that stick out to me:

    "You know something, as far as I'm concerned, I'm happy that they can get the services," he said Friday. "Because I would like to have the services if I'm somewhere in another country … if I have an accident with a motorcycle and I go to an emergency room, I don't want someone to say, is he here legally?"
    Good Arnold, real good. Use the one bleeding heart example that's gonna pull at everyone's soft strings. Ignore the other 1800 examples of how it harms us.

    "Everything we eat today is picked and created by undocumented immigrants, to a large extent," he said. "And every time we go to a restaurant and every time we go and move into a building, a lot of those buildings are built by undocumented immigrants' hands."
    Gee that makes me feel so much better. And I'm sure it makes all of the out-of work for years american citizen construction workers feel a lot better too.

    Here is the question I would've asked him:

    "So, by saying you support illegal immigrants and the 'services' they provide us, are you suggesting that the state of California should ignore its own laws and constitution? Should we attempt to change the law or are we goign to just pretend that the law doesn't exist?"

  9. #9
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Twain Harte, CA
    Posts
    18,414

    Re: Let's talk California

    ^^^ Dang... good observations. I'm impressed. Seriously.

    In time you'll recognize the parallels to national politics (if you haven't already).

    You'll be a conservative in due time.

    And I suck at predictions, so there.

  10. #10
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    25,135

    Re: Let's talk California

    ^^^

    Yup.. we be f*cked fer sure. The gubbenator and (D)'s in the state legislature cry about how we collectively told them to f-off with their thinly veiled tax increase propositions. And yet they turn a blind eye to the massive problems and financial burden that illegal immigration causes. In this case.. the gubbenator seems in lockstep with the (D)'s in congratulating and encouraging illegals. They will continue to ignore the laws until the state is so broke they cannot provide these services to anyone. One of the natural results of unregulated immigration and reason we regulate it to begin with that has absolutely nothing to do with racism as the far left always implies.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  11. #11
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    West Richland, WA
    Posts
    6,397

    Re: Let's talk California

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    ^^^ Dang... good observations. I'm impressed. Seriously.

    In time you'll recognize the parallels to national politics (if you haven't already).

    You'll be a conservative in due time.

    And I suck at predictions, so there.
    I have these same points with my father. He votes Dem. most of the time but if I talk about individual policies he almost always comes down on the side of conservatives. He just doesn't trust Republicans, not that I disagree with him much on that these days.
    Brian

  12. #12
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Age
    38
    Posts
    6,499

    Re: Let's talk California

    ^^^Well I like to harp on how much I hated the last 8 years while Bushy was in power, 6 of those with pretty much unregulated power.

    When we look back on history, his biggest failure by far will have been his inability to secure the border. It absolutely blows my mind that they did not find that more vital to national security than invading Iraq. Mind boggling.

    Ok, now that my BDS has subsided, this is one of the few issues that I take a pretty conservative stance on, because its just common friggin sense. Especially when put into the context of where we stand nationally with our economy the way it is. The democrats like to make their case for government intervention into the free market system as a matter of national security. Fine. I'll buy that argument even though a lot of conservatives will call it hogwash. Well if we are so goddammed concerned with our economy as a matter of national security, then explain to me how this $hit goes unchecked?

    I mean, even the APOLOGISTS for allowing illegal immigration put the figure at 4-5 beeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllyun dollars per year that it costs the state. So you know the figure is probably twice that. And thats just Cali.

    Common friggin sense aint so friggin common on this issue.

  13. #13
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    25,135

    Re: Let's talk California

    One of my other favorite topic's.. unions. Ya.. it's the refusal to raise taxes that is killing the gubberment. Not the unrealistic union wage & benefit packages that helped put us in this fiscal position to begin with. I love this line:

    Nothing in the election results, union leaders said, suggested that Californians preferred deep cuts in programs to an increase in taxes.

    "That is not what the voters said, and it is not the approach that the Democratic leadership should take," said Willie Pelote, political director of the public employees federation.
    Ya.. nothing but us Californians voting by a strong majority to not raise taxes with your poorly disguised tax increase propositions. If that's not what we said... what do you think the vote results meant?


    State's budget crisis opens rift between unions and Democrats
    Labor wants to offset some cuts with new or higher taxes; legislators don't.


    Reporting from Sacramento The Capitol's usual political alliances are being tested by the state's severe financial problems as interest groups scramble to hold onto as much as possible of the state's shrinking coffers.

    The relationship between Democratic leaders and some of their labor benefactors has turned particularly frosty: Many of the programs union members rely on for paychecks -- and the unions rely on for dues -- have been slated for deep cuts.

    For example, there are pledge forms being passed around to lawmakers by a major labor union that might have attracted takers in budget battles past. The union, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, wants the legislators to sign statements of support for up to $44 billion in new or higher taxes on the wealthy, oil companies, tobacco and other industries, products and people.

    But so far the drive hasn't produced a single signed form, even from the Democrats who normally march into California's budget fights in lock-step with organized labor.

    The friction started when the Democrat-dominated Legislature produced a budget in February that raised taxes but also cut programs and included a GOP-driven plan to put the brakes on state spending. A handful of labor groups then spent millions to help defeat the May ballot measures that the budget spawned.

    "Many public employee unions, teacher unions [are] thinking that they were thrown under the bus in the last budget," said Assemblyman Charles Calderon (D-Montebello). "So now they're asking themselves: If these Democrats are not going to stand up for us, then what good is it to have them there?"

    The union leaders say they are appalled that Democratic leaders are talking openly now about decimating government programs without first making a stand for bigger, broader tax hikes that could substantially offset budget cuts.

    "Democrats came to Sacramento to help people," said Marty Hittleman, president of the California Federation of Teachers. "I know they did not go there to destroy government. For some reason, they are unwilling to stand up and say 'This is not what I was elected for.' "

    But even some of the most liberal Democrats say some union leaders are ignoring the reality of an angry public, a sour economy and a state government approaching insolvency. Moreover, more taxes would require Republican support in the Legislature, and the minority party has made clear that there will be none.

    "We have an economy which is in intensive care, and another round of tax increases . . . would put that patient in cardiac arrest," said Assembly GOP leader Sam Blakeslee of San Luis Obispo.

    The Democratic leadership has largely accepted the governor's framing of the budget crisis as one requiring deep cuts, quickly. Any taxes they may push for are expected to be limited.

    "Of course there are going to be cuts," said Senate leader Darrell Steinberg (D-Sacramento). "This is the worst drop in revenue since the 1930s. We're going to try to be as surgical as we can in making very difficult decisions, but we will make the decisions."

    Sen. Gloria Romero (D-Los Angeles), a veteran lawmaker and former caucus leader, said, "When someone tells us 'No new cuts,' I say, 'Look, don't tell me that.'. . . . There is the sense that we must do what we must do to keep California solvent."

    When the Democrats struck their deal with the governor and Republicans to raise some taxes temporarily, they also agreed to put on the ballot the measure to restrain state spending and proposals to borrow billions and divert money away from social services.

    The Democrats had just pushed through the first substantial state tax increase in 18 years, and the influential California Teachers Assn. sided with them, spending millions to support two of the ballot measures.

    But a quartet of labor heavyweights -- the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the teachers federation, the California Faculty Assn. and the state council of the Service Employees International Union -- complained that the Democrats had given away the store. The four launched campaigns against parts of the ballot package, putting about $3.5 million into the fight against the spending cap that was the linchpin of the proposals. The measures failed, expanding the state's deficit by $6 billion.

    After the election, the relationship between the Democratic leaders and labor deteriorated further. The unions released an analysis of public opinion polls they conducted, concluding: "Voters are frustrated and dismayed at the leadership void in California and clearly want legislators to do their job."

    Nothing in the election results, union leaders said, suggested that Californians preferred deep cuts in programs to an increase in taxes.

    "That is not what the voters said, and it is not the approach that the Democratic leadership should take," said Willie Pelote, political director of the public employees federation.

    Some rank-and-file Democrats are pressing, alongside the unions, for higher taxes. So far, they have been rebuffed.

    Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's latest proposed budget revisions include the phasing out of Cal Grants, the financial aid the state gives to low-income students of the faculty association and teacher federation members. And state-paid home healthcare services, whose 300,000 workers are largely members of SEIU and the public employees federation, stand to be slashed.

    Some accuse the governor of seizing on the rift between Democrats and labor as he tries to dismantle parts of the state's social safety net. Schwarzenegger says he is willing to look at any alternatives that will balance the budget -- except more taxes.

    Democrats are working on their own proposal, for release later this month, to close the projected $24-billion deficit. Although their cuts are not expected to be as deep as those Schwarzenegger wants, there are certain to be serious reductions in the programs most important to unions.

    "There is a tremendous amount of pain ahead for labor and everyone else," said Larry Gerston, a professor of political science at San Jose State University. "We've got all these groups fighting over increasingly scarce resources."

    The next step for unions could be going directly to voters. One labor-backed group, the California Tax Reform Assn., has prepared a possible ballot measure to repeal the three corporate tax cuts Democrats agreed to in the last year to get GOP support for the budget.

    "It's ready to go," said Lenny Goldberg, the group's executive director.


    shane.goldmacher
    ^^ Go ahead sh*t for brains... chase more of the tax base from California. These people will never f*cking learn.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  14. #14
    Joined
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Huntsville, Alabama
    Posts
    132

    Re: Let's talk California

    Quote Originally Posted by no2guncntrl View Post

    So how do we, the working stiffs, fix Ca ?

    One inquring mind wants to hear suggestion, etc.
    As long as the Dems are in charge and handing out money left and right, CA is un-fixable. Do what a lot of other working stiffs have done... LEAVE. I am meeting quite a few California transplants living here that are enjoying lower taxes and affordable housing. We have our fair share of illegals and leeches here that are sucking at the state's coffers, but at least we have a sound economy that can keep up with it.

    I have a lot of relatives in CA and they are about fed up with it too, and they are bleeding-heart Obama voters, and they are considering leaving that dis-functional state. I like to vacation in CA but I wouldn't want to actually live there.
    Liquid Ninja's DCS is gone...

  15. #15
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Twain Harte, CA
    Posts
    18,414

    Re: Let's talk California

    ^^^ Aye, its really nuts here in the world of politics and economics.

    We've been discussing a vamoose move ourselves after retiring. Moving before that would be counter-productive.

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