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  1. #2326
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Palandri View Post
    You really have to look at the GNP statistics. Such as, Britian spends 8% of their GNP on National Healthcare and they cover everyone. We spend twice that, like 15% of our GNP on Private Healthcare and don't cover everyone.

    The "for profit" Private Healthcare model is simply the wrong model for Healthcare. I can see from your statement that you think any government ran agency is inefficient, well, the statistics show differently.
    Please to show "statistics" where gubberment is more efficient than the private industry. I'd be really inter4ested to see the breakdown in those numberz.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  2. #2327
    Joined
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Please to show "statistics" where gubberment is more efficient than the private industry. I'd be really inter4ested to see the breakdown in those numberz.
    I just did by comparing the GNP used.


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  3. #2328
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    No, post actual links with numbers...so we know that you aren't just pulling the numbers out of your ass.

    The "Because I said so" defense doesn't play well around here.

  4. #2329
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    A Little South of Sanity
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Palandri View Post
    I just did by comparing the GNP used.
    And the "quality" of said health care in the UK is on par with that of the US?

    Hint: I have close friends in the US HC industry.

  5. #2330
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveW View Post
    And the "quality" of said health care in the UK is on par with that of the US?

    Hint: I have close friends in the US HC industry.
    ^^^ The % of GNP example fails on so many levels... quality and availability being just a few. But let's go with that. Lets say a country of 40 million decides to only pay one doctor with one office $100K a year to supply health care for the entire country. The % of GNP spent would be miniscule and everyone is covered. According to the "logic" being employed above... it's all good cuz everyone is covered and the %of GNP is soooo low right?
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  6. #2331
    Joined
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    Kern River Valley, CA
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    21,563

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    ^^^ The % of GNP example fails on so many levels... quality and availability being just a few. But let's go with that. Lets say a country of 40 million decides to only pay one doctor with one office $100K a year to supply health care for the entire country. The % of GNP spent would be miniscule and everyone is covered. According to the "logic" being employed above... it's all good cuz everyone is covered and the %of GNP is soooo low right?

    Cutting 500 billion in medicare benefits isn't cutting waste it's moving the waste, fraud and abuse to Obamacare. Before you can cut waste you must first determine where the waste is. The major factor will be cuts in care, they're already happening. Obambi's death panel is already at work...

  7. #2332
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Looking like this might be more than just speculation. Its your health care thread Scoot and I don't want to derail it....if you think this discussion should continue in Economics I can move it over there:

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/...ex.html?hpt=T2

  8. #2333
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Looking like this might be more than just speculation. Its your health care thread Scoot and I don't want to derail it....if you think this discussion should continue in Economics I can move it over there:

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/...ex.html?hpt=T2
    No issues for me at all. It's all about the $$$ anyway. Be interesting to "see whats in it".... before it gets passed that is.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  9. #2334
    Joined
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    644

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    ^^^ The % of GNP example fails on so many levels... quality and availability being just a few. But let's go with that. Lets say a country of 40 million decides to only pay one doctor with one office $100K a year to supply health care for the entire country. The % of GNP spent would be miniscule and everyone is covered. According to the "logic" being employed above... it's all good cuz everyone is covered and the %of GNP is soooo low right?
    However if you still have terrible healthcare ratings (sure a lot of those ratings are nebulous in how they get their results at the best of time... but yeah... Infant mortality rates while being just one factor are pretty concrete) even after overspending on your GNP then you have a problem.

    Of course you'd then say "Tort Reform". We're paying too much because people sue too much, hur! ((Yes, it's true that Americans sue way too much... but don't justify yourself))

    The problem is a properly conceived healthcare system (and to a greater extent, education system) helps all members in a country. It's an investment.

    It's -- basically game theory. You still need to interact with other people... and if their life sucks they'll make your life suck. If they have opportunities that they capitalize on, they'll provide opportunities to others.

    Having a properly conceived healthcare (and education) system is a struggle -- yes. So fight for it.
    Last edited by Phopojijo; 04-04-2011 at 03:16 PM.

  10. #2335
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    26,272

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Phopojijo View Post
    However if you still have terrible healthcare ratings (sure a lot of those ratings are nebulous in how they get their results at the best of time... but yeah... Infant mortality rates while being just one factor are pretty concrete) even after overspending on your GNP then you have a problem.
    You just mooted your own point. % of GNP is simply an absurd way to try to make a case.. period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phopojijo View Post
    Of course you'd then say "Tort Reform". We're paying too much because people sue too much, hur! ((Yes, it's true that Americans sue way too much... but don't justify yourself))
    Tort reform needs to be addressed. Or are you trying to say it's not a significant factor in the overall HC cost?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phopojijo View Post
    The problem is a properly conceived healthcare system (and to a greater extent, education system) helps all members in a country. It's an investment.
    Growing gubberment is not an "investment".. it's a roadmap to fiscal suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phopojijo View Post
    It's -- basically game theory. You still need to interact with other people... and if their life sucks they'll make your life suck. If they have opportunities that they capitalize on, they'll provide opportunities to others.
    So let's spread the wealth.. socialism 101.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phopojijo View Post
    Having a properly conceived healthcare (and education) system is a struggle -- yes. So fight for it.
    That's what we're currently about. REPEAL!
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  11. #2336
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    My comment was about your short-sightedness and ignorance.

    Your reply solidified that assertion.

    Thank you.

    (Okay response #2 wasn't obviously moronic. 20% is still a fail though)
    Last edited by Phopojijo; 04-04-2011 at 04:03 PM.

  12. #2337
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Let it begin

    Privatizing Medicare

    So they’re really going to propose it.

    More when we have some details. But two key points:

    1. Privatizing and voucherizing Medicare does nothing whatsoever to control costs. We’ve seen that from the sorry history of Medicare Advantage. I’m sure that the Republicans will claim savings — but those savings will come entirely from limiting the vouchers to below the rate of rise in health care costs; in effect, they will come from denying medical care to those who can’t afford to top up their premiums.

    Oh, and for all those older Americans who voted GOP last year because those nasty Democrats were going to cut Medicare, I have just one word: suckers!

    2. E.J. Dionne is right: This will be Obama’s defining moment. Will he stand up for the principle that society takes care of those in need? Or will he cave in? I wish I had confidence in the answer.
    I think I'm gonna puke if I see "This is Obama's defining moment" again. Every moment is a defining moment hen you are president, especially nowadays. And if he hasn't "defined" himself yet in his ability to cave to republicans on pretty much every issue out there, then this moment will just fit the narrative, not be "defining."

  13. #2338
    Joined
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    California
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    26,272

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Phopojijo View Post
    My comment was about your short-sightedness and ignorance.

    Your reply solidified that assertion.

    Thank you.

    (Okay response #2 wasn't obviously moronic. 20% is still a fail though)
    Well then..



    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  14. #2339
    Joined
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    Ontario, Canada
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    644

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Lol.

  15. #2340
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Let it begin

    Privatizing Medicare



    I think I'm gonna puke if I see "This is Obama's defining moment" again. Every moment is a defining moment hen you are president, especially nowadays. And if he hasn't "defined" himself yet in his ability to cave to republicans on pretty much every issue out there, then this moment will just fit the narrative, not be "defining."
    Without commenting too much as I've not read what the GOP is planning personally yet.

    Let me take a second to attack the source. Would you let that twit Krugman run your personal finances? I mean comon.. the same poolitzer winner that gets spanked by satire sites??

    Longhorns 17, Badgers 1

    Please pardon this brief departure from my normal folderol, but every so often a member of the chattering class issues a nugget of stupidity so egregious that no amount of mockery will suffice. Particularly when the issuer of said stupidity holds a Nobel Prize.


    really??...
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


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