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  1. #1
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    Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    It's coming.. It'll be mandatory.. it's gonna cost a f*cking fourtine... and he is looking to stuff it down our throats before the majority notice he has no way to pay for it other than raising taxes and cuts in Medicare and Medicaid which are also underfunded. Lets see what captain bullsh*t had to say about exactly what he is planning on doing during the election..



    Getting Punked On Health Care Reform

    Although the Democratic health care reform proposal currently in Congress is not final, two key elements are emerging as to how the government will pay for the trillion dollar plus price tag: Taxing private insurance benefits, and cutting hundreds of billions in Medicare and Medicaid benefits.

    Taxing private insurance and cutting benefits were the two things Obama said during the presidential campaign that he would not tolerate in health care reform, and he ripped into John McCain for supposedly planning just what the Democrats are about to propose:


    Legislation to be outlined next week in the Senate Finance Committee will likely include a new tax on workers with the costliest employer-provided health coverage, officials said Friday, but with implementation delayed until 2013 to minimize any political fallout.

    Officials familiar with internal deliberations said the leading option under consideration by Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., the committee chairman, would mean higher taxes for workers whose family coverage costs $15,000 a year or more in premiums paid by employer and employee combined.

    The provision could generate hundreds of billions of dollars over the next decade to help pay the $1 trillion or more the Obama administration has estimated is necessary under its plan to extend health care to millions of Americans who lack it. Cuts in projected Medicare and Medicaid spending are expected to make up much of the rest.

    If the final bill follows this formula, and if Obama signs it, Obama and the Democrats will have violated fundamental campaign promises. I know, you've been punked:
    How are they planning on getting it passed? They same way Mr. Hopenchange does everything else.. deception & lies:



    Video: The Public Plan Deception

    The guys at Verum Serum strike again with this new video of Democrats and their think-tank allies talking about the real goal of the “public plan” in ObamaCare, the new health plan getting rolled out in Congress this month. The White House says the plan will “keep private insurers honest,” but it seems the dishonesty comes from the Oval Office and Capitol Hill:

    The people who designed this approach were very honest about it, as you can see in the above video. None of them talk about “keeping private insurers honest”; instead, they’re openly scornful of private insurance and want to rid us of them as soon as they are politically able to do so. The one couldn’t even bring himself to call the public plan a Trojan Horse, so obvious is its intent.

    The entire premise of the public plan, as designed by its originators, was to crowd out the private insurers by undercutting them on price. After all, the government can take losses on the plan for as long as they need to drive everyone else out of the market. Once that process completes, voila! Single-payer remains as the only option.

    Time to get on the phones and start telling your Senators and Congressment to vote no on the public plan. We will start next week on The Ed Morrissey Show. Get ready for some activism.


    &

    House Health-Care Proposal Adds $600 Billion in Taxes (Update2)

    June 12 (Bloomberg) -- Health-care overhaul legislation being drafted by House Democrats will include $600 billion in tax increases and $400 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel said.

    Democrats will work on the bill’s details next week as they struggle through “what kind of heartburn” it will cause to agree on how to pay for revamping the health-care system, Rangel, a New York Democrat, said today. The measure’s cost is reaching well beyond the $634 billion President Barack Obama proposed in his budget request to Congress as a 10-year down payment for the policy changes.

    Asked whether the cost of a health-care overhaul would be more than $1 trillion over a decade, Rangel said, “the answer is yes.”
    Some Senate Republicans, including Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah, say the costs will likely exceed $1.5 trillion.

    House Democrats plan to release their legislation next week. Obama is working with Congress to get legislation to his desk by October.

    Democrats in the House and Senate are crafting legislation that would require all Americans to have health insurance, prohibit insurers from refusing to cover pre-existing conditions and place other restrictions on the industry.

    The legislation would establish online exchanges for individuals to purchase insurance and would require employers to provide health benefits to workers or pay a penalty. Some Democrats also are backing creation of a government-run program to expand coverage to the uninsured. The issue is the subject of bipartisan negotiations with Republican who oppose the so-called public option.

    Rangel said Democrats are still considering options for tax increases that might be in the bill, including a possible end to the income tax exclusion for employer-paid health benefits.

    Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, a Montana Democrat, is considering a proposal to apply income taxes to health-care plans if they are significantly more expensive than the basic health plan for federal employees -- $13,000 for a family of four.

    Rangel said House Democrats want to avoid the deeper cuts to projected spending under Medicare and Medicaid that Obama has been putting forth. House Democrats want to achieve cost-savings by cuts in payments to private insurance plans under Medicare.

    Covering the Costs

    Obama has pledged that health-care changes won’t add to the deficit. To accomplish that, he’s proposed getting about $600 billion by reducing tax deductions available to the wealthy, and by trimming Medicare payments to insurance companies.

    That won’t be enough to cover the overhaul costs. Obama said this week he plans in the coming days to disclose more proposals for raising “additional sources of revenue.” In a letter last week to Senate Democrats drafting legislation he said he will be proposing between $200 billion and $300 billion in further Medicare and Medicaid cuts.

    Obama plans to give a speech Monday in Chicago to the American Medical Association as part of his campaign to build up support for what could be the biggest changes to healthcare policy since Medicare was established in 1965.

    Rangel said that while House Democrats will likely release more details about health policy changes in their legislation next week, the package of offsetting tax increases and spending cuts likely will come later. Democrats, he said, want to put forth the more-positive aspects of an overhaul first. Rangel also wants to let lawmakers have time to study and weigh in on proposed offsets.

    “We have a problem in not wanting to attract enough negative attention to the bill in terms of the pay-fors,” he said. “Let them get a good feel for the coverage.”

    To contact the reporter on this story: Laura Litvan in Washington at llitvan@bloomberg.net
    I wonder if that bucket of KY we're all gonna need will be covered by the "new" plan..
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  2. #2
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    ^^^ And Baucus (D) [spl?] has a bill that will tax health insurance EXCEPT THOSE PROVIDED BY UNIONS.

    On the selfish side, yeah, our health insurance is from the teachers' union, but come on, how friggin' phony is that?

    Its just like selective car dealers getting the shaft, bond holders getting stiffed over unions, etc., etc. The list of this crap is getting far too long.

  3. #3
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    ^^^ And Baucus (D) [spl?] has a bill that will tax health insurance EXCEPT THOSE PROVIDED BY UNIONS.

    On the selfish side, yeah, our health insurance is from the teachers' union, but come on, how friggin' phony is that?

    Its just like selective car dealers getting the shaft, bond holders getting stiffed over unions, etc., etc. The list of this crap is getting far too long.
    Ya.. I posted that BS up about unions being exempt yesterday. I'll have to find the link and get it in here also... here we go..

    Health Care: “Special Interest Democracy”

    It may be hard to believe [/snark], but it appears when Democrats speak of “fairness” they define it in their own special interest kind of way.

    Take the talk about taxing your private health care benefits (something adamantly opposed by Obama during the campaign).

    Originally it was going to be everyone. But other Democrats complained mightily to Senate Democrats who were considering such a tax to pay for the conservatively estimated 1.5 trillion necessary to pay for “health care reform” (PAYGO? HA!). So they modified it a bit - tax the “rich” - those who had the best of coverage. Always a popular populist fallback, Sen. Dems were sure that would work.

    Alas it was soon discovered that a huge number of those holding “Cadillac” health care policies were unions. Yes, the special interest group in the pocket of the Dems (and vice versa) would be heavily hit by such a tax. As you might imagine, they were not happy.

    Solution - drop this bad idea?

    Of course not. Instead exempt the unions, you silly person:

    Mr. Baucus officially floated his plans for a tax this week, only with a surprising twist: His levy will not apply to union plans, at least for the duration of existing contracts. In other words, Mr. Baucus intends to tax the health-care benefits only of those who didn’t spend a fortune electing Democrats to office. Sen. Ted Kennedy, who is circulating his own health-care reform, has also included provisions that will exempt unions from certain provisions.

    The union carve-out is designed to allay the fears of many Democrats who remain outright hostile to a tax on health-care benefits, whether out of principle, political fear or union solidarity.
    This is not your grandfather’s America. Pay czars who arbitrarily set arbitrary pay limits based on what they “think” (according to presidential spokesperson Robert Gibbs) is “fair”, a government appointed CEO for an auto company who admits he knows nothing about cars and the government hijacking of health care.

    If you’re not concerned, you’re not paying attention.

    ~McQ
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  4. #4
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    I’m puzzled. If they cut 400 billion out of the Medicare and Medicaid budget just how in the h3ll are they going to stay afloat?

    Me thinks old people are going to join old granny and Reverend Wright under the bus.



    One thing is for certain this country will move away from quality healthcare too quantity healthcare. After all it’s easier to handle sheep as a flock than it is to handle them individually.
    Last edited by tucker; 06-13-2009 at 07:31 PM.

  5. #5
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    http://www.healthreform.gov

    To place comments:
    http://www.healthreform.gov/communit.../comments.html

    I'm going to refrain from making a comment in response to posts.

    Healthcare needs to be reformed. Nothing is going to be perfect. Get involved.

  6. #6
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    http://www.healthreform.gov

    To place comments:
    http://www.healthreform.gov/communit.../comments.html

    I'm going to refrain from making a comment in response to posts.

    Healthcare needs to be reformed. Nothing is going to be perfect. Get involved.
    You are going to pay for it one way or another. Moreover, you are going to pay more for privately insured healthcare because they wouldn't be in the business if they couldn't make money at it. And I mean a LOT of freakin' money.

    After having been through it, I can safely say that they will attempt to minimize payout and cap how much they are willing to go. After that, you are on your own and knocking on doors and hitting up the government anyhow.

    Finally, companies, including mine, would just as soon turn over their health benefit plan to a nationalized system anyhow. This public and private business and options for basic, necessary and emergency care is something my company does not want to do. Either take it or don't. I'm involved with it, so I know.

    Insurance then becomes the option of the wealthy for more exotic and cosmetic care. And when you get to that point, they're likely to go overseas for their procedures anyhow.

    So if private medical insurance goes out of business because of it, good riddance. The system is only a true fair-weather friend and is really a freakin', sinful sham.

    So, yeah, I've been fortunate and I'm not going to sell plans like the VA or Medicare short. It's all my mom has and I can only hope that it will do more some day. All I can say is, it's likely all you'll have sometime anyhow.

    So, whether I like or trust Obama or not, what I know is that my bit*ching about it doesn't fix it and I will put my 2 cents in if just so I can say I did.
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  7. #7
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    http://www.healthreform.gov

    To place comments:
    http://www.healthreform.gov/communit.../comments.html

    I'm going to refrain from making a comment in response to posts.

    Healthcare needs to be reformed. Nothing is going to be perfect. Get involved.
    Obama can take his bull$hit healthcare plan and shove it.
    Dr. Seuss for 2011:I do not like this Uncle Sam, I do not like his health care scam. I do not like these dirty crooks, or how they lie and cook the books. I do not like when Congress steals, I do not like their secret deals. I do not like ex-speaker Nan, I do not like this 'YES WE CAN'..I do not like this spending spree, I'm smart, I know that nothing's free. I do not like their smug replies, when I complain about their lies. I do not like this kind of hope. I do not like it. Nope, nope, nope!

  8. #8
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    ^^^ Supporters of this multi-billion taxpayer funded albatross? Hmmm.....a quick trip down memory lane and we have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poci View Post
    So let me get this straight,as the greatest and most prosperous country on this planet we cant give our citizens the basic healthcare they need?
    As expected, the Sock Puppet bought-in Hook, Line and Sinker from day 1.....

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    ^^^^Interesting that you had to post about the past. I watched the speech Obama gave at the AMA today. There's much to fine tune and open for debate, but he hit a lot of points that are hard to argue don't exist.


    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    http://www.healthreform.gov

    To place comments:
    http://www.healthreform.gov/communit.../comments.html

    I'm going to refrain from making a comment in response to posts.

    Healthcare needs to be reformed. Nothing is going to be perfect. Get involved.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveW View Post
    What plan? National Health Care, National Energy policy, Foreign Relations in the ME, the Economy?

    Where's the plan? Where's the transparency promised?

    Let's see now - we've passed some critically important legislation authored by Henry Waxman raising tobacco product taxes and now it's heading toward FDA control of tobacco products.

    That outta fix just about everything.
    ^^ I smoked Nostradamus on that one!
    Last edited by SteveW; 10-01-2016 at 08:50 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    I’m puzzled. If they cut 400 billion out of the Medicare and Medicaid budget just how in the h3ll are they going to stay afloat?
    Same way they do now. They overcharge the rest of us to make up for what they don't get from them. It's a hidden tax.
    Brian

  10. #10
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by bk94si View Post
    Same way they do now. They overcharge the rest of us to make up for what they don't get from them. It's a hidden tax.


    In addition to that I think Medicare and Medicaid will probably start rationing treatment and procedures. Bean counters will be making decisions that doctors should be making.

  11. #11
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    ^^^ Of all the examples of bias presented to us by the MSM, that's probably the shiniest example. The journalists who write these stories are clearly aware of the debunking of the numbers, most especially the "46 million uninsured" one that's been with us for well over a year now. The politicians are no doubt equally aware. The insurance companies and medical concerns are certainly well aware of the numbers.

    Their problem is that the entire premise of government run medical stuff falls flat on its face without these phony arse numbers, so all involved push the bull dung forward.

    If ya can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshlt.

    And the lemmings follow. Hey, he's almost god-like.

  12. #12
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    ^^^ From the same author as the above story...



    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  13. #13
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Ronnie's spot on prediction. Listen to the methods described. Then compare it to the rhetoric from Obama.. his cohorts in the Congress the unions & MSM.



    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  14. #14
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Ronnie's spot on prediction. Listen to the methods described. Then compare it to the rhetoric from Obama.. his cohorts in the Congress the unions & MSM.



    I remember when America had a real president.
    Brian

  15. #15
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    ^^^ Yup. George Will does a good job knocking down the talking points coming out of the WH & MSM.

    George Will Tells Dirty Little Secrets of Universal Healthcare

    As President Obama tours the country advancing his universal healthcare initiative, there are some dirty little secrets that he and his minions in the media don't want Americans to know.

    On Sunday, George Will during the panel discussion on ABC's "This Week," exposed some inconvenient truths about this controverial subject that would likely change much of the public's view if they were regularly made aware of them.

    After host George Stephanopoulos opened the roundtable segment, Will marvelously cut to the chase (video available here):
    Story Continues Below Ad ↓

    GEORGE WILL, ABC NEWS ANALYST: [T] this is now a single issue argument about whether or not we’re on a slippery slope to a single-payer system. That is, it’s about the so-called public option. And the president has said, “If you are starting from scratch” -- he said this very recently -- he would go to a single payer. That is, government as the single provider of health care.

    Now, there are four arguments for the public option. One is, in the president’s words, it will keep them honest. To try to preserve the government as a lagoon of honesty, you can argue, refuted by anybody who reads any budget of any administration.
    Bullseye, for all one need do is look at the totally absurd economic assumptions in Obama's 2010 budget, and one would have to agree with Will. But I digress:

    WILL: Second, he says, it will play by the same rules as the private insurers, and therefore, won’t drive them out of business. If you play by the same rules, as you said to the secretary, what’s the point?
    Exactly. If the rules of the private insurers are sound enough to be adopted by government, why change things?

    WILL: Third, it’s necessary to give what Secretary Sebelius said a choice to the consumers. There are 1,300 entities offering healthcare plans in this country. Another one isn’t going to change that.
    Precisely. Taking this a step further, many of these 1,300 entities will likely cease to exist if government gets involved. As such, Americans will have far fewer options.

    WILL: Finally, there’s the argument that the American people are not smart enough to handle something as complicated as healthcare and have a competitive market. They’ve done rather well in computers.
    Yes, but a common liberal meme is that people aren't smart enough to figure things out, and that's why government needs do it for them.

    Fortunately, Will wasn't done, for he later dispelled another media myth about this issue:

    WILL: Donna [Brazile], you talk about the 46, 47 million uninsured. Fourteen million of them are already eligible for other government programs and haven’t signed up. Ten million are in households with household incomes of $75,000 a year and could afford it if they wanted to.

    Furthermore, an enormous number in that 47 million are not American citizens. Sixty percent of the uninsured in San Francisco are not citizens.
    Bingo. So, this 47 million uninsured number the media always throw around is totally disingenuous and largely irrelevant.

    That said, it was awfully nice hearing somebody say it this morning.

    —Noel Sheppard is the Associate Editor of NewsBusters.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


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