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  1. #2311
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Those meetings that were supposed to be...how was it pitched again and again??



    Oh ya.. that one. Televised... streaming on the net.. yadda... yadda... yadda..

    Well.. anyway. Apparently the most fiscally irresponsible administration evar has been suddenly struck reticent to commit the resources it would take.

    White House Rebuffs GOP Investigation Of Secret Health Care Meetings

    The White House has rejected a request from the House Energy and Commerce committee for information about "every meeting, briefing or telephone call" the administration had with non-governmental parties in the lead up to, and wake of, passage of the health care law.

    In a letter obtained by TPM, White House counsel Bob Bauer directs committee and subcommittee leaders to publicly available information about the White House's meetings with health care stakeholders. But it looks like they won't get much more than that without a subpoena.

    "To provide all possible information encompassed by your request...would constitute a vast and expensive undertaking," Bauer writes. "To the extent you are also seeking documents reflecting internal deliberations and communications, it also would implicate longstanding Executive Branch confidentiality interests."

    You can read the entire letter here. Chairman Fred Upton (R-MI) launched his investigation in February, dinging Obama for falling short of his campaign pledge to conduct the deliberations publicly. This request might go to far, but there's likely bipartisan interest in knowing more about those negotiations, which many progressives blame for weakening the law.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  2. #2312
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Waiver-o-rama..

    State of Maine Gets Obamacare Waiver

    As suggested (or re-tweeted) by one of my Senators, how about all 50 states?

    Link to story here.

    PORTLAND, Maine - The federal government Tuesday granted Maine a waiver of a key provision in President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, citing the likelihood that enforcement could destabilize the state's market for individual health insurance.

    The U.S. Health and Human Services department said in a letter it would waive the requirement that insurers spend 80 cents to 85 cents of every premium dollar on medical care and quality improvement. Instead, the letter said, the state could maintain its 65 percent standard for three years, with the caveat that HHS intends to review the figures after two years.
    The Obamacare savings™ calculations don't mean a damned thing and never did. Gabriel noted the other day over a thousand waivers have already been granted. Favored parties (unions) don't have to take the same medicine as the rest of us. But the key provision of the funding mechanism requires every goddang person has to buy into this mess (with cash).

    (Actually Cornyn suggested "how bout Texas?" but I'm not selfish. All 50 states deserve a waiver.)

    I'm cool with that. Even though I'm old.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  3. #2313
    Joined
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    26,287

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Want some whip cream on top of that POS "health care" bill....??

    Starbucks CEO and Obamacare Supporter Now Decries Law's Small Business Impact

    The Seattle Times has an interesting interview with Howard Schultz, the CEO of Starbucks. After being one of corporate America's most prominent supporters of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, Schultz is now having second thoughts about the law:

    Q: Starbucks was vocal about [wanting] health-care reform. How do you feel about how it worked out?

    A: We have been a leader for almost 20 years now in demonstrating our heartfelt commitment to making sure that we provide health coverage for the majority of our people.

    That cost last year was $250 million. We have faced double-digit increases for almost five consecutive years with no end in sight.

    So, when I was invited to the White House prior to health care being reformed, I was very supportive of the president's plan, primarily because I felt it was literally a fracturing of humanity for almost 50 million Americans not to have health insurance.

    There's no plan that would be a perfect plan, but the intent of the bill and the heartfelt commitment to insure the uninsured is the right approach. I think as the bill is currently written and if it was going to land in 2014 under the current guidelines, the pressure on small businesses, because of the mandate, is too great.
    Emphasis added. Of course, the problems related to the individual mandate and bill's small business impact were entirely forseeable. Schultz is unlikely to be the last prominent Obamacare supporter to realize that good intentions don't automatically equate to good policy.
    When you lose harbucks....
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  4. #2314
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    26,287

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    The people thought it sucked when they passed this POS "so we could find out what's in it". The people still think it sucks today... no "change".

    CNN Poll: Time doesn't change views on health care law

    (CNN) – One year after President Barack Obama signed the health care reform bill into law, a new national poll indicates that attitudes toward the plan have not budged.

    According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Wednesday, on the one year anniversary of the signing of the law, a majority continue to oppose the measure, but some of the opposition is from Americans who think the law is not liberal enough.

    Thirty-seven percent of Americans support the measure, with 59 percent opposed. That's basically unchanged from last March, when 39 percent supported the law and 59 percent opposed the measure.

    "It's worth remembering that opposition to the bill came from both the left and the right last year, and that has not changed either," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "In 2010, about a quarter of the health care bill's opponents disliked the bill because it was not liberal enough - the same as today. That works out to 13 percent of all Americans who oppose the bill because it did not go far enough. Forty-three percent oppose it because it was too liberal."

    The passage of health care reform was seen as the signature domestic achievement of the president's first two years in office. The law was a major issue in the midterm elections and with many Republicans continuing to push to either repeal or defund the plan, health care will most likely remain a very important issue in the 2012 election.

    There are two ways to look at the poll's overall numbers. One is that 59 percent oppose the law. The second is that if you add the 13 percent who oppose the law because it's not liberal enough to the 37 percent that support the law, you come up with 50 percent of the American people who disagree with the Republican leadership on the issue. The GOP gained control of the House and many state houses and legislatures in the November election on the basis, many experts said, of their strong opposition to what they said was "government controlled health care."

    In what was seen as a largely symbolic move, the GOP controlled House voted earlier this year to repeal the law. At the same time, a number of legal cases that aim to overturn the measure are advancing through the federal court system.

    With all this in mind, the poll continues to indicate a partisan divide, but also a gender gap among people who oppose the health care law.

    "Men and women dislike the new health care law in equal measure, but not necessarily for the same reasons," Holland says. "Nearly all men who oppose the law do so because it is too liberal. But a third of the women who dislike the law feel that way because it is not liberal enough."

    The CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey was conducted March 18-20, with 1,012 people questioned by telephone. The survey's overall sampling error is plus or minus three percentage points.

    Two other polls released in the past week, by Gallup and Kaiser Family Foundation, also indicate that Americans are divided over the health care law.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  5. #2315
    Joined
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    That's because Republicans have substituted facts with fear.


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  6. #2316
    Joined
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    That's because Republicans have substituted facts with fear.
    Care to share with the class what those fear points are?






    3 days later:

    I didnt think you had anything to back up your claims!
    Last edited by /\/\adGamer; 03-26-2011 at 06:49 PM.

  7. #2317
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    The short version:

    YAY we all have free health care now!!
    Wait... we have to pay how much for it???!!!
    And the gubberment decides who gets what???
    F*ck that!!

    Krauthammer Battles NPR's Totenberg Over Whether or Not People Want ObamaCare

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  8. #2318
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Werd...

    My Washington Times latest: Loudest ObamaCare cheerleader wants out


    What do ObamaCare and minimum wage laws have in common? Democrats think they should only apply to you.

    New York's Rep. Anthony Weiner wants a 'get out of jail free' card

    Such is the standard operating procedure for big-government types: Impose ever-increasing burdens on hardworking Americans who play by the rules and don’t have best friends in Washington or armies of lobbyists at their disposal or millions of dollars for campaign contributions. This sickening display shows that, at best, this administration is admitting that Obamacare is unraveling, in part, because its one-size-fits-all, big-government plan simply cannot accommodate all the unique needs of 310 million patients. At worst, its pay-for-play, politics-as-usual scheme is enriching administration cronies on the backs of everyone else. As Mr. Weiner said, “A lot of people who got waivers were … people who are our friends.”

    The question remains: If Obamacare is such a great law, why does the White House keep exempting its best friends from it?
    Now go read the whole piece and see how Dems try to give themselves waivers from their own destructive laws (like the minimum wage). As always, thanks for sharing on your blogs, Facebook, Twitter, email, etc. I see a number of you have tweeted the link to me and @RepWeiner. Heh. Still waiting for his reply.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  9. #2319
    Joined
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan



    & because it's f*cking soooo true.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  10. #2320
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    Oregon
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    41
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    6,498

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    The short version:

    YAY we all have free health care now!!
    Wait... we have to pay how much for it???!!!
    And the gubberment decides who gets what???
    F*ck that!!

    Krauthammer Battles NPR's Totenberg Over Whether or Not People Want ObamaCare

    Based on this logic Scoot, I am eager to hear your comments on this article. It is speculation at this point, nothing official, but Ryan certainly isn't denying it.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/52314.html

    So basically, the idea here is to turn an entitlement program into a grant program. In a perfect republican world, the government gives the states a certain amount of money and then the states take that money, whatever it may be, and covers the costs of elderly insurance.

    So my first question is, what happens when there are more people than there is money? Are republicans going to form state run death panels to decide who gets the money first?

    I'm being sarcastic here, obviously. But its a real problem that needs to be addressed, and I don't see how cutting a trillion dollars over the next ten years is any different than Obama's plan to eliminate half a trillion in waste in his plan. Basically the republicans said the dems were coming for grandma with a reaper when the dems wanted to enact their reforms, so what is the proper response now?

  11. #2321
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Based on this logic Scoot, I am eager to hear your comments on this article. It is speculation at this point, nothing official, but Ryan certainly isn't denying it.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/52314.html

    So basically, the idea here is to turn an entitlement program into a grant program. In a perfect republican world, the government gives the states a certain amount of money and then the states take that money, whatever it may be, and covers the costs of elderly insurance.

    So my first question is, what happens when there are more people than there is money? Are republicans going to form state run death panels to decide who gets the money first?

    I'm being sarcastic here, obviously. But its a real problem that needs to be addressed, and I don't see how cutting a trillion dollars over the next ten years is any different than Obama's plan to eliminate half a trillion in waste in his plan. Basically the republicans said the dems were coming for grandma with a reaper when the dems wanted to enact their reforms, so what is the proper response now?
    Lemme just first start by saying you did not seem horribly upset when P-Turtle cut $500 Billion from Medicare, then double counted it. Nor did I hear any of the boilerplate libberal bleeding heart/bullsh*t "slashing benefits for the neediest Americans" / "devastating consequences for the disabled, the working poor and children" from your side of the fence that is being focused on the repugs now. And what's their heinous crime? Actually dealing with an entitlement that is out of control rather than simply creating another based on crap guesstimates (see: bending the curve bullsh*t, etc.)like P-Turtle and his congressional twits did.

    As for bamma's plan that supposedly eliminates "half a trillion in waste". It does not "eliminate" anything but billions of dollars from our pockets. As in "poof".. it's gone. His "savings from waste" claim is such a steaming pile of sh*t lie I'm simply amazed you are still pimping it. Ryan again:



    Any questions?

    Note again that when the CBO stripped all BS lies P-Turtle and is reconciliation lubbin Congressional allies used every single one of the bammacare claims falls to sh*t. As often happens when facts are introduced.

    What do they (repuggies) do when as you claim "they run out of money"? I guess you'd be ok if they took the libberal approach and either just printed more or borrowed robbed it from future generations. I'm not seeing any complaints about that tactic when (D)'s use it from your side of the isle. Must be a great "plan" eh?

    /end refresher course and apologies... but it had to be said.

    Now more to your post. As I read the article, (according to the story which is as you correctly note is speculation) the states take the fed money and use it in a more efficient manner. Namely buying insurance for people in the private sector.

    Ryan’s preferred treatment for Medicaid, outlined in a policy booklet called “A Roadmap for America’s Future,” is to convert current federal payments to states into direct assistance in the form of $11,000 per year per recipient, which could be used to purchase private insurance.
    Hardly what I'd call a "death panel". In market driven economics (as in when (D)emorats are kept from f*cking it up) competition drives prices down. And competition usually leads to better products at a greatly reduced price due to efficiencies that must be made to remain competitive. Better for both the consumer and the taxpayer in this instance. If actual savings are achieved.. "running out of money" is no longer an issue.

    Bammacare does the exact opposite and will naturally have the exact opposite effect. It will eliminate competition, be inefficient as hell(it is the gubberment we're talking abut here after all) and drive prices up.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  12. #2322
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    Oregon
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post

    Hardly what I'd call a "death panel". In market driven economics (as in when (D)emorats are kept from f*cking it up) competition drives prices down. And competition usually leads to better products at a greatly reduced price due to efficiencies that must be made to remain competitive. Better for both the consumer and the taxpayer in this instance. If actual savings are achieved.. "running out of money" is no longer an issue.

    Bammacare does the exact opposite and will naturally have the exact opposite effect. It will eliminate competition, be inefficient as hell(it is the gubberment we're talking abut here after all) and drive prices up.
    Next question. Do you honestly believe, in your heart of hearts, that $11,000 a year is going to be enough for seniors who can't afford health insurance?

    I'd love to believe in this Ayn Randian view of capitalism and business, that the private businesses will do the right thing if you give them the money. But all I see happening is seniors getting a significantly reduced level of health care. If that's what needs to be done and everyone just needs to bite the bullet and say it, then fine. My worrywith the Ryan plan is, what exactly can be done to ensure that all of this money, which would now be put directly into the private sector, would actually drive down the costs and improve the quality of service, as you assert above?

  13. #2323
    Joined
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    A Little South of Sanity
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    12,925

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    .......But its a real problem that needs to be addressed, and I don't see how cutting a trillion dollars over the next ten years is any different than Obama's plan to eliminate half a trillion in waste in his plan. Basically the republicans said the dems were coming for grandma with a reaper when the dems wanted to enact their reforms, so what is the proper response now?
    And the Obama promise is essentially finance a new government run Health Care plan by somehow magically implementing changes to save trillions of dollars from another government run Health Care program?

    What kind of BS logic is that? What we will get is no changes to the status quo and add to that another government run program that is just as ineffecient or worst than anthing ever concoted.

  14. #2324
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Next question. Do you honestly believe, in your heart of hearts, that $11,000 a year is going to be enough for seniors who can't afford health insurance?

    I'd love to believe in this Ayn Randian view of capitalism and business, that the private businesses will do the right thing if you give them the money. But all I see happening is seniors getting a significantly reduced level of health care. If that's what needs to be done and everyone just needs to bite the bullet and say it, then fine. My worrywith the Ryan plan is, what exactly can be done to ensure that all of this money, which would now be put directly into the private sector, would actually drive down the costs and improve the quality of service, as you assert above?
    Hard to say based on speculation. I need to see details before I can give steadfast opinion.

    I do believe it has a better chance of working than "central planning". The countries that do have bammacare like state run HC systems are being buried by them. One thing I can say honestly from my "heart of hearts" is I do not believe more gubberment is the cure. Especially as it stands right now with one person (HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius) having literally dictator like power over how and who this POS bammacare bill applies to. Waiver~mania to union cronies and as noted above gubbenors who were bammacare's most ardent supporters should be setting off alarm bells in any objective persons frontal lobe.


    GOP report: AARP stands to make $1 billion from ObamaCare, IRS should investigate


    No cries from the left about cronyism?? Fatcats?? Quid-pro-quo/pay-4-play? Bammacare stinks to high heaven from the top down. Lets stop wasting cycles and repeal this POS already. there would be much bi-partisan support for tort reform and some of the more common sense ideas that would actually improve quality and get costs down. Let's get busy with that as I'm not interested in buying the farm and it's workers just to get my gallon of milk.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  15. #2325
    Joined
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    Posts
    7,927

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveW View Post
    And the Obama promise is essentially finance a new government run Health Care plan by somehow magically implementing changes to save trillions of dollars from another government run Health Care program?

    What kind of BS logic is that? What we will get is no changes to the status quo and add to that another government run program that is just as ineffecient or worst than anthing ever concoted.
    You really have to look at the GNP statistics. Such as, Britian spends 8% of their GNP on National Healthcare and they cover everyone. We spend twice that, like 15% of our GNP on Private Healthcare and don't cover everyone.

    The "for profit" Private Healthcare model is simply the wrong model for Healthcare. I can see from your statement that you think any government ran agency is inefficient, well, the statistics show differently.


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