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  1. #3586
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Perhaps you guys should look towards other sources of news that do a better job informing instead of trying to sway opinion.....

    Don't believe me?......
    Perhaps not.

    No, we don't believe you. Never have, never will.

  2. #3587
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveW View Post
    Perhaps not.

    No, we don't believe you. Never have, never will.
    Of course not, since you obviously choose not to base an opinion on facts by actually reading things that might allow an informed judgement.

    Then again, there's this constant trolling by you that is hard to ignore since you choose never to actually respond to my content, barking at just about every post I make. Perhaps that's the game. Woof Woof. Is that what the "W" stands for in your name? Perhaps so.

    No more treats for you, lol.
    Last edited by otoc; 09-26-2015 at 11:13 AM. Reason: Yes, I chose not to jump on Woofy saying he speaks for all
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  3. #3588
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    P
    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Of course not, since you obviously choose not to base an opinion on facts by actually reading things that might allow an informed judgement.

    Then again, there's this constant trolling by you that is hard to ignore since you choose never to actually respond to my content, barking at just about every post I make. Perhaps that's the game. Woof Woof. Is that what the "W" stands for in your name? Perhaps so.

    No more treats for you, lol.
    Wrong again. Don't believe any of your Spindoctored Hard Left Liberal Rhetoric because it's all twisted BS.

  4. #3589
    Joined
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    553

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...ly-all-states/

    Now There Can Be No Doubt: Obamacare Has Increased Non-Group Premiums In Nearly All States
    I know a family who owns a semi truck, buys their own insurance, cost went up over $300/month after ACA due to new requirements of coverage they didn't need and covering for low end slackers.

    Yay Obamacare. Now we get to buy health care for people who masturbate on the internet for a living or peddle pot.

  5. #3590
    Joined
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    Twain Harte, CA
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    It was going to reduce insurance by $2500/year, but now we're supposed to love it because healthcare costs only go up 4% a year... according to otoc's source, which must, of course, be the end of all dispute. So don't believe you, otoc? Since you're essentially admitting the basis on which this was sold was bulldung, I'll give ya that. That costs are rising slower than before... hey, do ya think 0% interest from the Fed might have some kinda like wee bit falsifying impact on these things? Or is it all because of the magic government set of healthcare rules?

    Well, here in Kalifornia, a large block of insured, the teachers, are seeing quite different escalations in their health plan costs. And that's before the Cadillac plan surcharges kick-in.

    Like so many complicated issues, we can pull factoids and statistics to paint whatever picture we choose, but when we poll the folks, its a majority who don't like Obamacare. Maybe they see truth beyond what people who want to peddle the sham have to say.

  6. #3591
    Joined
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    California
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    26,280

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    ^^^ Tic-toc's idea of "working as intended" is pretty thin.

    What about those 6+ million who liked their plans that now have been forced into craptastic bammacare exchanges or face IRS fines?



    Interest at 0% from a anemic economy, lowest labor participation rate since Carter. The only cure is more bammacare..

    The real pain has not even started yet as most who understand it know most of it's more heinous provisions were deferred past the last election so their Chicago Jesus could be reelected.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  7. #3592
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Love how quotes and videos from 2009 that predate the gop shutdown that stopped the original plan are now constantly being used. Yawn.

    And CA teachers have Cadillac plans? No wonder your state is so f'd. How's that Cadillac plan Dutch?
    Last edited by otoc; 09-26-2015 at 09:06 PM.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  8. #3593
    Joined
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    553

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Love how quotes and videos from 2009 that predate the gop shutdown that stopped the original plan are now constantly being used. Yawn.

    And CA teachers have Cadillac plans? No wonder your state is so f'd. How's that Cadillac plan Dutch?
    Used to be most people had "Cadillac plans" and most employers gave them to us as part of our benefit package for working for a living.

    Now that we live in the Welfare States of America, Obama Hood Prince of Thieves is going to put a 40% tax on these good health insurance plans in 2018. (mysteriously after Obama Hood is long gone enjoying his own Cadillac Plan for his family- he's far to wonderful for the crap Medicaid the rest of us are going to end up on)

    The only people who like Obamacare are people that benefit from us. The rest of us are left saying "WTF?! They already take about half my money! Now they want more so some losers can evade working at real jobs.

  9. #3594
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    ^ Uh oh, TicToc's not going to like that post!

  10. #3595
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    Twain Harte, CA
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    How's that Cadillac plan Dutch?
    Its fine, otoc. They pay out for everything, even the chiropractor. I pay for haircuts out of pocket.

  11. #3596
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    10,813

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by jethro View Post
    Used to be most people had "Cadillac plans" and most employers gave them to us as part of our benefit package for working for a living.

    Now that we live in the Welfare States of America, Obama Hood Prince of Thieves is going to put a 40% tax on these good health insurance plans in 2018. (mysteriously after Obama Hood is long gone enjoying his own Cadillac Plan for his family- he's far to wonderful for the crap Medicaid the rest of us are going to end up on)

    The only people who like Obamacare are people that benefit from us. The rest of us are left saying "WTF?! They already take about half my money! Now they want more so some losers can evade working at real jobs.
    WTF is right. Aside from the fact we were already paying for those without coverage, the historic number of employer Cadillac plans was roughly 25%. Hardly most except in your world apparently.

    With the tax to employers, not employees, hitting in 2018, who's to say it isn't changed or repealed by a congress that isn't hell bent on having people complaining and whining about Obama (seems to be working in your case) instead of listening to their constituents and actually doing something.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  12. #3597
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    Its fine, otoc. They pay out for everything, even the chiropractor. I pay for haircuts out of pocket.
    I guess you can thank your fellow Californians here for paying for your health plan with their taxes? That's a question. Aside from that, nice plan for a teacher and her family. Historically, if you were covering your family through a private business plan like I was, you would understand how rates were skyrocketing and something had to be done.

    Specifically 10-14% a year, every year under the proposed Cadillac threshold. That's why Heritage and Rhomney felt something should be done until apparently Obama won the election and duplicated the conservative plan.
    Last edited by otoc; 09-26-2015 at 11:01 PM.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  13. #3598
    Joined
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    553

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    WTF is right. Aside from the fact we were already paying for those without coverage, the historic number of employer Cadillac plans was roughly 25%. Hardly most except in your world apparently.
    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/0...lac-tax-116659

    About one-third of employers will be hit by the tax in 2018 if they do nothing to change their plans, according to a March survey by Mercer, a benefits consulting firm. By 2022, almost 60 percent will be facing the levy.


    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    With the tax to employers, not employees
    Typical liberal naivete'. I have bad news for you Otoc: To your employer, you are a copy machine with a maintenance plan. They do not care about you beyond getting as much work from you as possible for as little money as possible. If the cost of your "maintenance plan" increases, they will not dig deeper in their pocket to make up the shortfall. They will lower your annual raise, they will layoff staff, they will cut another benefit- whatever it takes to remove the money from your pocket instead of theirs.'


    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    , hitting in 2018, who's to say it isn't changed or repealed by a congress that isn't hell bent on having people complaining and whining about Obama (seems to be working in your case) instead of listening to their constituents and actually doing something.
    Well, that would be great, but repealing Obamacare doesn't seem to be what you hope will happen.

  14. #3599
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    I seem to miss the part where you apparently transported yourself to the future when making the statement I responded to.
    Quote Originally Posted by jethro View Post
    Used to be most people had "Cadillac plans" and most employers gave them to us as part of our benefit package for working for a living.
    I'm fully aware of the data that projects policies that fall into the Cadillac category, but that isn't what you wrote, is it. Nice attempt at moving the discussion goalpost. But let's play since you seem to want to make this something where you imagine what I think.




    Quote Originally Posted by jethro View Post
    Typical liberal naivete'. I have bad news for you Otoc: To your employer, you are a copy machine with a maintenance plan. They do not care about you beyond getting as much work from you as possible for as little money as possible. If the cost of your "maintenance plan" increases, they will not dig deeper in their pocket to make up the shortfall. They will lower your annual raise, they will layoff staff, they will cut another benefit- whatever it takes to remove the money from your pocket instead of theirs.'
    Ahh, the liberal naiveté goalpost. Sure, I'm more liberal than the regulars here, so let's blow it into extremes. Yes, money bucket pocket economics blended in with 1984 employer/worker images. Sounds like the Apple commercial, or a call for National Health that takes the cost away from employers, allows them to better compete in the world market, and pay us better. We'll cover buckets while pointing out I'm not the one writing these naïve statements that I let pass until now:

    Quote Originally Posted by jethro View Post
    Now that we live in the Welfare States of America, Obama Hood Prince of Thieves is going to put a 40% tax on these good health insurance plans in 2018
    God, how does one respond to such rightwing nonsense?
    Since you want to make this political and blow it into epic proportions of course you choose to ignore how epic the failure was prior to Obama that caused people to need help. Think depression, as in this recession was worse than any before and came closest to the Great Depression had steps not been taken. Score for the "Hood Prince of Thieves" that it didn't happen. I'd mention Bush, but he's Voldemort in this forum. Yup, OK to bring it up, but not OK to discuss the cause here.




    Quote Originally Posted by jethro View Post
    The only people who like Obamacare are people that benefit from us.
    The only people? Seems like an epic reduction in annual cost increases benefits all. I benefit from no one. I see the data points you ignore. Cost increases are at epic lows. Exactly how that Liber, er, conservative think tank projected it, lol. How "liberal" of me to have read the original Heritage Foundation call for mandate. How Liberal of me to have supported Rhomney when he put that into action in my state.




    Quote Originally Posted by jethro View Post
    The rest of us are left saying "WTF?! They already take about half my money!
    The rest of us? Typical rightwing response that assumes the world revolves around only you and you speak for all. Since you seem to understand how money goes from one bucket to another and is never created, I didn't miss how you ignored the fact that our rates had the cost of people without jobs that defaulted on ER visits incorporated. Now they go to a doctor's office at a fraction of the cost. Pure economics and buckets in play here. But I'm the one you decide is naïve. OK.

    Who is taking half your money? Not federal taxes. You have an employer sponsored Cadillac plan that costs so much that it eats up the remaining half of your salary? Wow, that's a great plan. Please tell more.

    My point here is that I came in specific to how ObamaCare is working when it comes to rate increases and gave data to prove it. In typical rightwing style you give us complaints without backing it up with reality. How naïve of me.

    Here's one for you, how you lose all your money in catastrophic times. Of course this article is about someone who opponents of the ACA held up until they had to drop them due to being living proof of a need that health insurance changes were long over due. We pay for this "loser" too...

    Plaintiff In Landmark Anti-Obamacare Lawsuit Bankrupted By Medical Bills-You And I Pick Up Her Tab
    Oh, the irony.

    Mary Brown is your average, 56 year old Florida resident. And while you may never have heard of Mary, her name is destined to live on in American history as a key player in one of the most important legal cases ever decided by the United States Supreme Court.

    Mary Brown is a name plaintiff in one of the challenges to the Affordable Care Act —Obamacare—that will be taken up by the Court in just a few weeks.

    Why Mary? When the National Federation of Independent Business was preparing their court challenge, the organization needed an individual to put their name to the lawsuit. Mary Brown fit the bill.

    As someone who chose not to purchase health insurance —and felt strongly that the federal government had no business telling her that she had to buy it whether she liked it or not—Mary had become an active and outspoken critic of the law. As a result, she was the perfect candidate to be a human face on the challenge to Obamacare.

    As it turns out, Mary is, indeed, a great symbol for the court challenges to the ACA—but not for the side she had in mind.

    Last fall, Mary Brown and her husband filed a petition of bankruptcy seeking relief for some $55,000 in debts the couple had run up when they suffered a reversal of fortune in their auto repair business. Like so many Americans who have experienced small business failures during these difficult times, Mary could no longer earn enough money in her business to keep up with her bills and she needed a way out.

    The thing is, among the debts listed in the bankruptcy filing are $4500 worth of medical bills—obligations that, presumably, would have largely been paid had Mary chosen to purchase health insurance, something she will be required to do come 2014 when the insurance mandate of the healthcare reform law kicks in.

    Almost half of the medical debt run up by the Browns is owed to Bay Medical Center in Panama City, Florida. A spokesperson for the hospital had this say about their experience with the Browns and the many others who cannot pay their medical bills because they have chosen to remain uninsured.

    “This is a very common problem. We cover $30 million in charity and uncompensated care every year,” “If it’s a bad debt, we have to absorb it.”

    Of course, ‘absorbing it’ means that the loss will be passed along to the rest of us who do take responsibility for the medical obligations that, for almost all of us, are inevitable.

    Yes, Mary Brown will be remembered for her role in the war against Obamacare. However, it won’t be for the reason she intended.

    As it turns out, Mary Brown, the named plaintiff in the case that seeks to bring Obamacare to an end, is the poster child for why the mandates in the ACA are so completely necessary.




    Quote Originally Posted by jethro View Post
    Now they want more so some losers can evade working at real jobs.
    Right, lol, it's all simply about losers now. Let's move that goalpost to another city. Healthcare makes people not want to get jobs. WTF is right.




    Quote Originally Posted by jethro View Post
    I know a family who owns a semi truck, buys their own insurance, cost went up over $300/month after ACA due to new requirements of coverage they didn't need and covering for low end slackers.
    Yes, you know a family, great. They own a truck, super great. Now what coverage did they not need? Pre-existing conditions? How big a family? Coverage for annual checkups to prevent later catastrophic conditions? How naïve for me to ask what they had before that would cause an increase to a family plan? We knew crappy plans were out there that offered minimal coverage. Yet back to the "slacker" statement that disregards how we already paid for slackers. That money bucket thing again.




    Quote Originally Posted by jethro View Post
    Yay Obamacare. Now we get to buy health care for people who masturbate on the internet for a living or peddle pot.
    Yay, let's bring in masturbation and once again totally disprove Dutch's earlier zing that only liberals have a fixation on genitals. You have a typically distorted rightwing view of people. And I'm naïve.




    Quote Originally Posted by jethro View Post
    Well, that would be great, but repealing Obamacare doesn't seem to be what you hope will happen.
    Yes, because I acknowledge there was, is, and will be a problem related to healthcare. I fully expect that once Obama is out of office Congress will repeal or change this tax.

    Considering I've seen nothing from your party to offer anything other than what we had that caused the rapid increases in cost, I don't prescribe to the naïve rightwing version of "throwing out the baby with the bath water". As with any bill, it's not perfect and in normal times changes are made annually. But in the case of Obama, Congress has chosen not to do anything other than appeal. I've lost count on how many times it was tried, including the time we had government shut down. I'm always counting money buckets and by my count the cost to that tactic is immense. You write about exceptions and make them everything. I'm talking about real losers now who affect all by actions or inactions that create or don't create law. Who's the naïve one here?
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

  15. #3600
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    10,813

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    We have a thread called "Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan" that allows conversation about a plan that isn't Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan. It simply isn't public health plan in the true sense.

    We also have a thread where it is described as a liberal concept that needs abolishing.

    Here's where the seed came from,

    Heritage Foundation, 1989
    Assuring Affordable Healthcare for All Americans

    Funny how things change. Sorry, I can't post excerpts. It wasn't OCR scanned.
    Thomas Jefferson to John Page Fairfeilds Dec: 25. 1762.
    ... But the old-fellows say we must read to gain knowledge; and gain knowledge to make us happy and be admired. Mere jargon! Is there any such thing as happiness in this world? No: And as for admiration I am sure the man who powders most, parfumes most, embroiders most, and talks most nonsense, is most admired.

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