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  1. #1531
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,761

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    I wonder what those other favor were??????

    It doesn't matter this is all about spending and more debt so more money is put out by the FED that we pay interest on. At present we are paying $700,000,000,000/year before we pay for anything else because we don't issue our own money. That is a mighty hefty price for getting screwed.

    Anyway Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

  2. #1532
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    West Richland, WA
    Posts
    6,397

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    As Politico reported moments ago:

    Sen. Mary Landrieu got the "Louisiana Purchase." Sen. Ben Nelson got the federal government to pick up most his state's future Medicaid tab -- forever.

    As part of the deal to win Nelson's support, the federal government will fund Nebraska's new Medicaid recipients. It's a provision worth about $45 million over the first decade. [...]

    Medicaid is usually paid for with a mix of federal and state funding, but Nelson's carve out means that any Medicaid beneficiaries who join the program after the bill passes will be funded by the federal government.

    It's a sweet deal considering that many governors are worried that the Medicaid expansion will further strain already stressed state budgets.
    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...icaid-payments

    That's the favor.
    Brian

  3. #1533
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    West Richland, WA
    Posts
    6,397

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Brian

  4. #1534
    Joined
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Kern River Valley, CA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    21,595

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Was the vote televised on CSPAN?

  5. #1535
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    10,810

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Was the vote televised on CSPAN?

    http://www.c-span.org/Health-Care-Senate-Debate.aspx

  6. #1536
    Joined
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Kern River Valley, CA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    21,595

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan


    Well I’ll be darned… It’s too bad I wasn’t up and about at 3am pacific to watch the farce…

    What I really wanted to see is what was happening in Harry Reid’s office. I find closed door legislation one of my favorites.

    2,700 pages and counting.

    Numerous payoffs and bribes all at taxpayer expense, don’t ya just love it.
    Last edited by tucker; 12-22-2009 at 12:53 PM.

  7. #1537
    Joined
    Nov 2001
    Location
    E n g l a n d
    Posts
    10,978

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    2,700 pages and counting.

    About the same as Lord Of The Rings and War & Peace put together.

    Nice and understandable then.

  8. #1538
    Joined
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Kern River Valley, CA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    21,595

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Enmore View Post
    About the same as Lord Of The Rings and War & Peace put together.

    Nice and understandable then.


    Smoke & Mirrors

    The chosen one wants to keep his date with history. It’s all about him you know.

  9. #1539
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    5,171

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    has anyone read the new one? will it be ten years now after we start paying?
    Max Plank: "A new scientific truth does not
    triumph by convincing its opponents and making them
    see the light,
    but rather because its opponents eventually die"
    Arthur Shopenhauer: "Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized.
    First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is opposed. Third, it is regarded as self evident."
    Martin Niemöller:
    "When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;I was not a communist.
    When they locked up the social democrats,I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;I wasn't a Jew.When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out."

  10. #1540
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    5,171

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    and email sent to me. its kinda fun.




    Dear Progressive Friends and Activists,

    This week the entire East Coast was hit with a massive snow storm.
    But it was NOTHING compared to the relentless snow JOB coming out of
    the White House and Congress on the health care bill. The lies are
    flying so thick it will take a couple alerts to shovel them out all
    of our way. The most important thing is that WE must speak out and
    declare the TRUTH that

    "The Health Care Bill Is A Total Fraud On The American People"

    The Shinola Stops Here Action Page:
    http://www.peaceteam.net/action/pnum1024.php (including the latest
    "I'm A Democrat, And I'm A Republican" video)

    Before anything else, for those have not been paying attention, we
    are NOT the right wingers. The Republicans won't vote for the bill,
    but for the WRONG reasons. For them it's not vicious and exploitive
    of the people enough. They in fact secretly want it to pass, because
    they know it is destined to be the most despised piece of legislation
    in American political history, and woe unto any Democrat who votes
    for it in its present form.

    Remember that we were the people who told you the TRUTH about what
    was really going on, when we wrote over three months ago that Obama
    had no intention of letting a public option of any kind survive. We
    told you long before that the so-called "public option" was itself a
    sham, a misleading impersonation of real reform (which was and always
    will be single payer) that was never intended to be anything but a
    transitory process device to get weak-minded liberal saps to
    compromise their compromised, compromising position, until there was
    nothing left.

    Did you believe us then? Believe us now . . . now that anything with
    even a remote chance of actually reducing our health care expenses
    (Medicare buy-in, prescription drug re-importation, even a feebly
    weak public option) has been systematically stripped out of the
    Senate Bill on direct ORDERS from the White House, not that corrupt
    members of Congress needed any serious prodding from that end.

    President Obama is out there right now laying it on thick with three
    primary promotional touts, all of which are such transparent bunko it
    is astounding that they even need to be debunked.

    First, he says the Senate Bill is a good thing because it contains a
    so-called "bill of rights", and isn't that all we wanted anyway he
    says, to just curtail a certain laundry list of the most egregious
    medical insurance industry rip-offs. Second, he talks about how
    wonderful any bill that provides health care to 30 million new people
    must be. And third, he argues that the Senate bill must be something
    great, because he claims the insurance companies are strongly opposed
    to it.

    As to the "bill of rights" spin job, how drop kick stupid do they
    think we are? Wasn't it just last May that they passed with great
    fanfare a so-called Credit Card Holder's Bill of Rights. Oh yes,
    that's exactly the same deceptive way they framed that one too.
    Didn't we just fall for this same PR ruse? The worst credit card
    abuses would be stopped the sell job went. But in just the same way,
    any provision that would have ensured a real reduction in
    outrageously usurous credit card interest and charges (like a
    reasonable cap on interest rates) was rejected.

    Instead, credit card companies have played every possible game to
    raise rates since, and just this week we heard that one of the worst
    offenders came out with a new card with, get this, an effective
    interest rate of 80%, all in full compliance with the shiny new bill
    of rights law. What a mean-spirited, cruel and pathetic trick to play
    on the American people. Are you starting to get it yet, folks??

    The Shinola Stops Here Action Page:
    http://www.peaceteam.net/action/pnum1024.php (including the latest
    "I'm A Democrat, And I'm A Republican" video)

    Now, as to the 30 million new people the new bill will supposedly
    provide health care for. The bill will do absolutely NO such thing.
    Instead, it will FORCE 30 million new people to provide health care
    for THEMSELVES, limited in their choices to an insurance kangaroo pit
    run by, for, and exclusively under the effective control of the very
    same rip-off insurance corporations we have now. It is the functional
    equivalent of making people buy their OWN holiday gifts, at a premium
    inflated price to boot, and then bragging about giving them generous
    presents.

    And what if some of those 30 million people can't afford to pay the
    entire ransom of their new indentured health care? Well, then the
    rest of the American taxpayers are forced to make up the difference,
    giving the insurance companies a direct I.V. to suck the life blood
    out of the American treasury.

    The Shinola Stops Here Action Page:
    http://www.peaceteam.net/action/pnum1024.php (including the latest
    "I'm A Democrat, And I'm A Republican" video)

    Finally there is the total con job that the drug and insurance
    companies are somehow now opposed to the bill that has nothing in it
    that wasn't drafted to their own specifications. This of course all
    flies in the face of the way they have been caught in public
    celebrating what they themselves are calling their huge win.

    In the first place, they are so greedy they would be crying foul if
    they only got 99.9 percent of that they wanted, instead of absolutely
    every bit of 100 percent. If this isn't something straight out of
    Brer Rabbit, we don't know what is. "Oh, please don't throw us in the
    new insurance market," they supposedly cry. Only we haven't seen any
    ads run by them to try to now stop the Senate bill . . . have you?

    So what do we learn from all this? The drug and insurance corporate
    interests (indeed all right wingers) keep screaming and shouting
    until they get what they what. And what are we supposed to do? Hold
    our tongues? Trust that our political "representatives" really mean
    well, while they sell us further and further down the river? Or is it
    up the creek? Are we supposed to constantly compromise, and
    capitulate on top of that, and unilaterally surrender at the end of
    everything else, just so we can say that we passed "something"
    labeled as reform. Isn't that precisely what led us to the place we
    are at now?

    The Shinola Stops Here Action Page:
    http://www.peaceteam.net/action/pnum1024.php (including the latest
    "I'm A Democrat, And I'm A Republican" video)

    C'mon folks snap out of it. Ya wanna know what political reality is?
    If we had a million submissions on this action page above we could
    turn this whole thing around on a dime right now. The day you
    collectively declare, with numbers like that, and tell President
    Obama and Congress that "the shinola stops here", THAT is when real
    change can start.

    We keep saying the same thing, and some day enough of you will
    believe us to actually make it happen. Let that day be today. Tell
    them you are not buying their snow job anymore. Because of one thing
    you can be very sure, UNTIL you do, the shinola is just going to keep
    getting thicker and thicker and thicker.

    And here is the one click Facebook page for this same fax action.

    The Shinola Stops Here Action Page:
    http://apps.facebook.com/fb_voices/a...?qnum=pnum1024

    And the Twitter reply to send, to send this message to President
    Obama and all your members of Congress that way, is

    @cxs #p1024

    Please take action NOW, so we can win all victories that are supposed
    to be ours, and forward this alert as widely as possible.

    If you would like to get alerts like these, you can do so at
    http://www.millionfaxmarch.com/in.htm

    Or if you want to cease receiving our messages, just use the function
    at http://www.millionfaxmarch.com/out.htm

    usalone361b:238795
    Max Plank: "A new scientific truth does not
    triumph by convincing its opponents and making them
    see the light,
    but rather because its opponents eventually die"
    Arthur Shopenhauer: "Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized.
    First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is opposed. Third, it is regarded as self evident."
    Martin Niemöller:
    "When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;I was not a communist.
    When they locked up the social democrats,I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;I wasn't a Jew.When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out."

  11. #1541
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,761

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Now let's talk about fraud, mostly from small business but look 1 biggie, Pfizer and you do know that there is more that hasn't been uncovered, millions of dollars all in one state. These are not those who are in the shadows but in the light of day people who are looked up to. The more you trust people the more you are going to get screwed.

    Medicaid fraud recovery, recovering more than $75 million on behalf of Missouri taxpayers. We received a $1.8 million judgment against a licensed clinical social worker who had falsified patient records and submitted untrue claims to Medicaid. We also settled with a pharmacy owner for $3.9 million after he allegedly double-billed Medicaid and submitted false claims. A pediatric dentist pled guilty to 13 charges of fraud, which is likely to land him in prison. In September, Missouri was part of the largest nationwide Medicaid fraud settlement in history. The historic settlement with Pfizer returned $22 million to the state of Missouri for paying kickbacks and engaging in off-labeling marketing campaigns that improperly promoted numerous drugs they manufacture.

    All of these cases and many more, helped to push the total recovery from Medicaid fraud since Jan. 1, 2009 to $77 million. This is an all-time record for Medicaid fraud recovery in Missouri. The previous high total was almost $34 million in 2008.
    Just seen the health bill passed the Senate with a picture of Reid smilling his as$ off. No real reform, we will continue to pay the highest for health care and drugs.

    An example of 4 fold for drugs, I may have posted this before but worth repeating. An inhaler that can be had in Mexico over the counter by the case is $10 where as here in the states $40 along with a doctors' prescription and the only difference is the label is printed in Spanish.

    A pharmacist I know has made the statement, she could charge less for drugs but would be put out of business if she did. The drug companies would no longer sell to her. Talk about unions..................WoW how much is this costing you????????
    Last edited by falcon_view; 12-24-2009 at 09:26 AM. Reason: added more

  12. #1542
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    5,171

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    people don't need all these god damned drugs anyway. what they need to do is eat real food instead of the processed crap. unfortunately that is expensive and time consuming.
    Max Plank: "A new scientific truth does not
    triumph by convincing its opponents and making them
    see the light,
    but rather because its opponents eventually die"
    Arthur Shopenhauer: "Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized.
    First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is opposed. Third, it is regarded as self evident."
    Martin Niemöller:
    "When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;I was not a communist.
    When they locked up the social democrats,I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;I wasn't a Jew.When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out."

  13. #1543
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,761

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    The fact is most drugs will not sell themselves. They have to be pushed and pushed hard by way of kickbacks. Who pays for this??????

  14. #1544
    Joined
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Kern River Valley, CA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    21,595

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    I agree drugs are over prescribed, over priced and over publicized but without a doubt I believe some drugs improve the quality of life and some drugs save lives. I’m not defending big pharma I’m just saying it would be very foolish to overreact and destroy whatever good work they do.

    I don’t care what you eat, how much you exercise or how good of care you take of your body you are still prone to disease and injury. Better control is in order but destruction of the pharmaceutical industry is suicide…

  15. #1545
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,761

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Drugs of the same type or treat the same need to be put on a rating system where the sales person is only allowed to address a board of review. Those on the board would be required to summit to a full review of their finances and travels while on, before and 5 years after leaving the board. If found to have any connection or dealings with a drug company it would be a mandatory 10 year prison term.

    Yep, it would be hard to find "good" people to serve but the rest you wouldn't want on the board.

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