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  1. #1576
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    ^^^^^ Can you say campaign rhetoric? Bullsh!t that too many idiots bought lock stock and barrell?

    Captain Rhetoric.
    "Walk Heavy, Stand Tall, Carry a Big Stick"
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  2. #1577
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with the issue of a single campaign promise broken.

    Are you saying because private arm twisting with special interests that historically lobbied with great sums of money against every adminisration before (with no public acknowledgement of the existence of such meetings at the time) which resulted in public statements of deals struck, such as the drug industry stating a hold on prices in return for domestic protection, then the entire process was "covert"? Sure seems that way, but if to you there was a broken campaign promise but the process as a whole was well documented, then I think we could find better agreement which is why I keep throwing the CSPAN link tucker's way when he jokes about CSPAN.

    I'm not going to get worked up on the political process of compromise overshadowing the documentation that did occur but respect your opinion and feel we could easily go down the line of presidents and debate campaign promises.

    Sometimes I laugh at how the right places Obama on a pedestal of perfection while using terms like Mesiah and the TheONE. Seems like the right is placing the religious viewpoint more than someone like me.

  3. #1578
    Joined
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    California
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with the issue of a single campaign promise broken.
    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    you know, that link I gave you before also works for the entire Congress...
    http://www.c-span.org/Topics/Health-...Town-Hall.aspx

    Yeah, covert...
    Sure looks that way from where I'm sitting.

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Are you saying because private arm twisting with special interests that historically lobbied with great sums of money against every adminisration before (with no public acknowledgement of the existence of such meetings at the time) which resulted in public statements of deals struck, such as the drug industry stating a hold on prices in return for domestic protection, then the entire process was "covert"? Sure seems that way, but if to you there was a broken campaign promise but the process as a whole was well documented, then I think we could find better agreement which is why I keep throwing the CSPAN link tucker's way when he jokes about CSPAN.
    What I'm saying is that " single campaign promise broken" you speak so lightly of was supposed to eliminate all of the above by your candidate's own words:

    "I'm going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We'll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies -- they'll get a seat at the table, they just won't be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. And so, that approach, I think is what is going to allow people to stay involved in this process."
    There was not supposed to be any:

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc
    private arm twisting with special interests
    Remember how "transparency" was supposed to show:

    who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies
    Be dismissive as you like with the "historically lobbied" rhetoric. Just because we get a "public statement" about a deal that would have had to have been written into any legislation for all to see anyway does not = we have any clue how those deals were struck. So yes.. the entire "process" was covert. All we get to see are the results of that covert process.

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    I'm not going to get worked up on the political process of compromise overshadowing the documentation that did occur but respect your opinion and feel we could easily go down the line of presidents and debate campaign promises.
    Of course you won't get "worked up". Your replies and defensiveness of everything Obami is well documented in your posts. Yet if a repug was doing the same, the history of your posts shows you'd be singing a different tune entirely.

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Sometimes I laugh at how the right places Obama on a pedestal of perfection while using terms like Mesiah and the TheONE. Seems like the right is placing the religious viewpoint more than someone like me.
    Think that makes you laugh? You should see it from our side where the reality is we've known the guy is typical Chicago pond scum for some time... who are the ones that place Obama on a pedestal of perfection? You think those terms we use are meant to display our view of him and not that of his nearly "devout" supporters like yourself?
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  4. #1579
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Sometimes I laugh at how the right places Obama on a pedestal of perfection while using terms like Mesiah and the TheONE. Seems like the right is placing the religious viewpoint more than someone like me.
    That's either sarcasm of sarcasm or a misunderstanding of sarcasm.

  5. #1580
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    That's either sarcasm of sarcasm or a misunderstanding of sarcasm.
    And.....as usual......who knows?
    "Walk Heavy, Stand Tall, Carry a Big Stick"
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  6. #1581
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Sure looks that way from where I'm sitting.
    I'm not surprised. You take a post where I show facts of CSPAN broadcasting the House and Senate debates for all of us to see and you focus on a typical political process in rebuttal to a quote of mine where you use your usual method of ignoring the words.



    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    What I'm saying is that " single campaign promise broken" you speak so lightly of was supposed to eliminate all of the above by your candidate's own words:



    There was not supposed to be any:



    Remember how "transparency" was supposed to show:
    And where are the examples of a new transparency scooter? The half truth continues to be the absolute truth with you.


    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Be dismissive as you like with the "historically lobbied" rhetoric. Just because we get a "public statement" about a deal that would have had to have been written into any legislation for all to see anyway does not = we have any clue how those deals were struck. So yes.. the entire "process" was covert. All we get to see are the results of that covert process.
    Dismissive by going over the facts? As usual, a true hoot of your rage horn.



    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Of course you won't get "worked up". Your replies and defensiveness of everything Obami is well documented in your posts. Yet if a repug was doing the same, the history of your posts shows you'd be singing a different tune entirely.
    Funny you demand others to show quotes to support the statement and all you do is give the same you complain about while throwing in the Ad hominem for icing on your twinkie. What's that word you like? Oh yeah, hypocrisy.



    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Think that makes you laugh? You should see it from our side where the reality is we've known the guy is typical Chicago pond scum for some time... who are the ones that place Obama on a pedestal of perfection? You think those terms we use are meant to display our view of him and not that of his nearly "devout" supporters like yourself?
    Pond scum and devout supporters? Thanks for proving my point that the right is the one perpetrating the complaint so they can whine about it. You are on the right, correct?

  7. #1582
    Joined
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    8,132

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    That's either sarcasm of sarcasm or a misunderstanding of sarcasm.
    Out for a stroll again? Since you are "the won" defining how you take my posts, then why not simply say what your opinion is? Seems like a simple matter. What is it? Sarcasm, a misunderstanding of the sarcasm, or door number three: the constant depictions of a religious cult figure coming from the right?

  8. #1583
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    ^^^

  9. #1584
    Joined
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    9,641

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    I'm not surprised. You take a post where I show facts of CSPAN broadcasting the House and Senate debates for all of us to see and you focus on a typical political process in rebuttal to a quote of mine where you use your usual method of ignoring the words.

    Were the CSPAN cameras inside Harry’s office for the top secret negotiations and super secret legislative meetings?

    If you can’t intimidate ‘em buy ‘em…

  10. #1585
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    8,132

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Were the CSPAN cameras inside Harry’s office for the top secret negotiations and super secret legislative meetings?

    If you can’t intimidate ‘em buy ‘em…
    What secret meetings were those?

  11. #1586
    Joined
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    What secret meetings were those?

    The ones you and democrats don’t want to talk about.
    Last edited by tucker; 01-03-2010 at 07:26 PM.

  12. #1587
    Joined
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    Location
    California
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    24,205

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    I'm not surprised. You take a post where I show facts of CSPAN broadcasting the House and Senate debates for all of us to see and you focus on a typical political process in rebuttal to a quote of mine where you use your usual method of ignoring the words.
    Obama's promises of "transparency & broadcast on CSPAN" are facts. Sorry it does not fit your "typical political process" spin, your issue... not mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    And where are the examples of a new transparency scooter? The half truth continues to be the absolute truth with you.
    Exactly.. there are none! All the real "negotiating and lobbying by special interests" is being done behind closed doors. That is the absolute truth. Again, sorry it does not jibe with your "public statement" spin. We were supposed to have a seat at the table... not a "statement" about the results of meetings and negotiations we know nothing about.

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Dismissive by going over the facts? As usual, a true hoot of your rage horn.
    Ya... otoc's facts. Stick to them. They are doing their usual bang~up job of CYA for your messiah.


    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Funny you demand others to show quotes to support the statement and all you do is give the same you complain about while throwing in the Ad hominem for icing on your twinkie. What's that word you like? Oh yeah, hypocrisy.
    I guess that's how you'd see it. And your bias is just a figment of my 33bil repug imagination. You don't post actual threads much.. but the ones you do are very telling. What was otoc posting about weeks after the "04" election?

    01-14-2005, 09:56 AM
    Big-Money Contributors Line Up for Inauguration

    I'm unable to see any similar criticisms about The Won's coronation, special interests or contributions from you. What was it you wanted to discuss instead:

    01-16-2009, 09:05 AM
    Make your constructive thoughts known to the President

    Funny thing about that thread... in it you actually get snooty cuz someone had the gall to raise the issue of your messiah's coronation.

    That and lets have a serious talk about:

    The "I" word.

    Oh ya.. back then you wanted answers about those horrible employment numbers also:

    job numbers are out

    Jan. 9 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy gained 1,000 jobs in December, fewer than the 150,000 that economists had forecast, as companies relied on productivity gains to meet increased demand, a government report showed.

    The unemployment rate fell to 5.7 percent last month from 5.9 percent, the Labor Department said in Washington. In November, companies added 43,000 jobs, fewer than the 57,000 estimated last month. Factory employment in December fell for a 41st straight month and retailers cut jobs even as holiday sales accelerated.
    http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...a2U&refer=home

    My comment is:
    When will the administration be held accountable? Clinton has been gone for years. Something is broken and the fix has not yet been found.

    Reply With Quote
    What was that about my hypocrisy again?

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    Pond scum and devout supporters? Thanks for proving my point that the right is the one perpetrating the complaint so they can whine about it. You are on the right, correct?
    You made a point? Must have missed it among your Obamite pandering. As usual... a hoot

    Last edited by AMDScooter; 01-03-2010 at 07:35 PM.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  13. #1588
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    8,132

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    The ones you and democrats don’t want to talk about.
    I'm no democrat and wish to talk about. But first you need to be a little more concise. What secret meetings did Reid hold and what did they achieve? Seems like a simple question.

  14. #1589
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    8,132

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Obama's promises of "transparency & broadcast on CSPAN" are facts. Sorry it does not fit your "typical political process" spin, your issue... not mine.
    lol, still arguing a fact I agreed on?



    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Exactly.. there are none! All the real "negotiating and lobbying by special interests" is being done behind closed doors. That is the absolute truth. Again, sorry it does not jibe with your "public statement" spin. We were supposed to have a seat at the table... not a "statement" about the results of meetings and negotiations we know nothing about.
    lol, still arguing a fact I agreed with?

    The half truth cometh again in the form of no transparency.
    Let's take my list and compare it to your "NO transparency"

    CPAN videos of the congressional debates which made youtube C&P of cherry picking available.

    Recovery.gov, which made a McCain report available.

    Data.gov, which gives fodder to the right bloggers.

    Whitehouse visitor logs which gives fodder to right bloggers making up the visitors.

    Obama's transparency spreads its wings
    The debut of Recovery.gov
    White House names names online
    FDA gets serious about transparency





    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Ya... otoc's facts. Stick to them. They are doing their usual bang~up job of CYA for your messiah.
    not even worth replying to...




    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    I guess that's how you'd see it. And your bias is just a figment of my 33bil repug imagination. You don't post actual threads much.. but the ones you do are very telling. What was otoc posting about weeks after the "04" election?

    01-14-2005, 09:56 AM
    Big-Money Contributors Line Up for Inauguration

    I'm unable to see any similar criticisms about The Won's coronation, special interests or contributions from you. What was it you wanted to discuss instead:

    01-16-2009, 09:05 AM
    Make your constructive thoughts known to the President

    Funny thing about that thread... in it you actually get snooty cuz someone had the gall to raise the issue of your messiah's coronation.

    That and lets have a serious talk about:

    The "I" word.

    Oh ya.. back then you wanted answers about those horrible employment numbers also:

    job numbers are out



    What was that about my hypocrisy again?



    You made a point? Must have missed it among your Obamite pandering. As usual... a hoot

    lol, the cherry pick c&p parade comes along with your usual shift to making the topic me, while even you forget what my point was in the process. Do you ever get tired of this dancin' fool charade?

  15. #1590
    Joined
    May 2002
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    Twain Harte, CA
    Posts
    17,104

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Hey otoc, when one of your sources has the CSPAN schedule of the upcoming, sure to be televised, ping-pong game between Senate and House House Democrats, that Republicans are not gonna be invited to, please post it up for us.

    Thanks in advance for your help.
    TNR: Dems to Skip Conference to Merge Health Care Bills

    By Philip Klein on 1.4.10 @ 9:43AM

    Jonathan Cohn reports that Democrats are "almost certain" to skip a formal conference committee to merge the House and Senate health care bills and informally negotiate which each other, a strategy that would expedite final passage.

    Cohn favors the strategy of shutting off the ability of Republicans to delay health care legislation further:

    “I think the Republicans have made our decision for us," the Senate staffer says. "It’s time for a little ping-pong.”

    “Ping pong” is a reference to one way the House and Senate could proceed. With ping-ponging, the chambers send legislation back and forth to one another until they finally have an agreed-upon version of the bill. But even ping-ponging can take different forms and some people use the term generically to refer to any informal negotiations.

    Whatever form the final discussions take place, a decision to bypass conference would undoubtedly expedite the debate, clearing the way for final passage (if not signing) by the end of January. And, as long as both chambers still get their say, that's a good thing.

    Yes, Republicans are sure to complain that they're being excluded from deliberations. But given their repeated efforts to block not just reform but even mere votes on reform, it's not clear why Democrats are obligated to include them in discussions anymore.

    While this may very well be the current line of thinking among Democrats, I'm not convinced this is how things will play out. It's important to keep in mind that it won't just be Republicans who are clamoring for conference committee, but a lot of liberals, too. Many on the left begrudgingly expressed support for passing the Senate bill in the hopes that they could make one last stand during conference talks, and I think Democrats may have to give them that oppourtunity, if nothing else but for show.
    http://spectator.org/blog/2010/01/04...-conference-to

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