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  1. #1621
    Joined
    Mar 2002
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    California
    Posts
    24,184

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Report: House liberals tell Pelosi they won’t play ping pong on ObamaCare

    Oh.. and here is a good 1. Howard dean making mushmouth Matthews look smart. Matthews whom just earlier today recommended to Dave Axlrd the dems should force through whatever they can.

    You, Howard Dean, Are Insane If You're Spinning This As Some Kind of Proof America Wants a More Socialist Health Care Plan, Says... Chris Matthews

    "You're whistling past the graveyard here."

    Dean pushes the arch-leftist line that Coakley lost because she wasn't far enough to the left, and even Chris Matthews now bails on the project.

    Recommended by ford and JeffB. At least I think this is the interview they were saying we all had to watch.

    Took Down the Axelrod Clip. I can't recommend it, now having watched it. It's boring and Axelrod just yaps and yaps. No contentiousness as in the Dean clip.
    That's right. The votres in Mass by electing Brown (the guy who ran as the 41st vote to kill Obamacare) were sending a message that they actually wanted Obamacare. I think Bamma is taking lessons from Dean. Would not be surprised if Bamma lets loose with a big ole "YEEAHHHHHHH!!!" at the end of the SOTU.

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  2. #1622
    Joined
    Mar 2002
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    California
    Posts
    24,184

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Both from hotair. I just love listening to Mr. "it's not about me/it's all about me" drone on and on...



    Obama: I will continue to fight for you by trying to pass a bill you despise

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  3. #1623
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    24,184

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Heartache... the SEIU much like the AMA, AARP and Obama seem to be unable or unwilling to understand that their constituents /members overwhelmingly don't want this sh*t sandwich takeover being pushed as "reform".



    SEIU warns Obama: If ObamaCare doesn’t pass, we might not be there for the midterms
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  4. #1624
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    5,171

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    mercola's rant about obama's shady dealings and lies and BS promises

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...otiations.aspx
    Max Plank: "A new scientific truth does not
    triumph by convincing its opponents and making them
    see the light,
    but rather because its opponents eventually die"
    Arthur Shopenhauer: "Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized.
    First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is opposed. Third, it is regarded as self evident."
    Martin Niemöller:
    "When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;I was not a communist.
    When they locked up the social democrats,I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;I wasn't a Jew.When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out."

  5. #1625
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    24,184

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    ^^^ There's plenty to rant about. Especially in light of the factually challenged... steamy pile of sh*t... served up in the SOTU. How about this for that continued "transparency" claim... the administrations paid "expert" looks to have had help from HHS in hiding his connection.

    Did HHS help hide Gruber’s status as paid shill? Update: “No comment” from Gruber

    When MIT economics professor Jonathan Gruber allowed himself to be quoted by numerous media outlets about his sunny analyses of ObamaCare, including a big push by Peter Orszag on his OMB site and in challenging reporters to use Gruber’s conclusions, Gruber never bothered to mention that he was receiving money through HHS to provide consultation on health-care reform. After Gruber’s exposure, he claimed that few bothered to ask whether he received compensation from the administration and didn’t feel compelled to volunteer the information. Now two members of the Senate have demanded that kind of disclosure from Gruber.

    In a letter sent earlier this week and given to Hot Air by a source in Washington, Charles Grassley (R-IA) and Michael Enzi (R-WY) demand answers to a long series of questions, including why Gruber never revealed this conflict of interest on three occasions when he testified before Congress on health-care reform. They first accuse Gruber of dishonesty:

    We are writing in response to recent news reports that you received nearly $400,000 from HHS in exchange for providing technical assistance in evaluating various health care reform legislative proposals. During this same time, you have been actively promoting and defending the Administration’s preferred health care reform policies both before Congress and in the media. This includes your participation in the Finance Committee’s May 12, 2009, Roundtable Discussion entitled “Financing Comprehensive Health Care Reform”; the HELP Committee’s June 11, 2009 hearing entitled “Healthcare Reform”; and the HELP Committee’s Novembver 3, 2009 hearing entitled, “Increasing Health Costs Facing Small Businesses.” On occasions such as these, it appears that you advanced the Administration’s agenda without disclosing the fact that you were receiving federal remuneration. …

    When an academic leader comes before Congress to advocate a position, Congress should have confidence that the witness is both independent and objective and not being paid to assist the Administration in its efforts. In this case, we are concerned that neither you nor the Department chose to inform Congress of your substantial ties in advance of, during, or any time after, your testimony before the Finance and HELP Committees. In fact, the biography submitted for the Finance Committee’s Roundtable Discussion makes no mention of these ties or affiliations.
    After this, Grassley and Enzi take aim at HHS and the Obama administration for failing to answer questions about outside consultants — answers that would have exposed Gruber as a shill long before being outed:

    In July, Senator Enzi write to HHS Secretary Sebelius requesting among other information, a list of all outside consultants with the Department and copies of their agreements. HHS was unresponsive to this request, which should have revealed your relationship with the Department. Senator Enzi recently wrote again to reiterate this request to HHS Secretary Sebelius and to ask for additional information concerning your relationship with the Department. Senator Grassley also wrote to Secretary Sebelis requesting that HHS require any individuals under contract with the Department to disclose that fact publicly prior to any testimony before Congress. Additionally, Senator Grassley requested that HHS provide a complete list of individuals who are currently under contract, or have been under contract at any point last year, to assist the Department in any aspect of the health care reform process.
    So much for increased transparency! This is an angle that we hadn’t yet seen. The Republicans on these panels must have had some suspicion that the White House was tossing ringers into these committee meetings and wanted a list of consultants from HHS to spot them. HHS refused — and now one of those consultants got exposed anyway.

    Hopefully Grassley and Enzi will stay on top of this development and find out if HHS or any of the other federal agencies in the Obama administration have more paid shills acting as independent voices supporting their agenda, especially on ObamaCare.

    Update: Ben Smith at Politico jumps on this immediately, and gets a “no comment” from Gruber.
    Like having ALGORE testify as a neutral party on MMGW.

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  6. #1626
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    24,184

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Captain Bullsh*t tries his jedi mind trick on the repug retreat.

    "This is not the ideologue you are looking for... the health care takeover was a centrist piece of legislation.. move along".

    Don't believe your own eyes and ears.. oh.. and it's all your fault my agenda is kaputin.

    ANGRY Obama Lashes Out at House Republicans– Tells Them “I Am Not an Ideologue” (Video)


    An angry Barack Obama met with House Republicans today at their retreat in Baltimore and attacked them for voting against his very radical and failed plans for restructuring America. To their credit not one single House Republican voted for the gigantic Stimulus Bill, the record Omnibus Bill, and the Obama Son of Stimulus Bill. And, only 5 voted for the democrat’s business-busting cap-and-tax bill and only one voted for Obamacare. Today Obama let them know what he thought about their lack of support for his radical agenda.

    Look at how ANGRY he is while speaking to the House Republicans:



    He called his health care bill “centrist.” …They got a kick out of that.

    Obama told the Republicans, “I am not an ideologue.”
    The AP reported:

    In a face-to-face encounter, President Barack Obama chastised Republican lawmakers Friday for opposing him on health care, economic stimulus and other major issues.

    Republicans pushed back on taxes and spending, and accused Obama of not taking their ideas seriously.

    Obama, attending the House Republicans’ retreat in Baltimore, began with conciliatory remarks but soon became more pointed. He said a GOP-driven “politics of no” was blocking action on bills that could help Americans obtain jobs and health care.

    In a sometimes-barbed exchange, he said some in the audience have attended ribbon-cutting ceremonies for projects funded by the stimulus package they voted against. Obama also questioned why Republicans have overwhelmingly opposed his tax-cut policies, which he said have benefited 95 percent of American families.

    “The notion that this was a radical package is just not true,” Obama said. “I am not an ideologue.”

    GOP lawmakers pressed the president to pledge to support a line-item veto for spending bills and across-the-board tax cuts. Obama demurred, saying billionaires don’t need new tax cuts.
    Obama is not only an ideologue, he’s an ideologue in denial.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  7. #1627
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    24,184

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    The magnanimous d*ck with ears is still claiming there was transparency in the process. This f*cktard actually thinks people:

    1) Don't know the difference between floor debate and actual negotiations.

    2) Would believe the line of sh*t that the reason the above negotiations were not televised on CSPAN was simply due to it being a "messy process". He simply did not "structure it" well.



    Lying sack of sh*t.

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  8. #1628
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    24,184

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Not an ideologue....

    Stephen Hayes: “The President’s Claim That He Is Not an Ideologue Was One of His Single Most Ridiculous Statements” (Video)


    The GOP House members were way too civil with the president yesterday.
    Barack Obama has tripled the US deficit in one year, nearly doubled unemployment since the Bush years, and he’s blamed every bit of his misfortunes on the previous administration. His agenda is not only transforming but is destroying the American economy. This wasn’t a SOTU Address. GOP House members did not have to sit on their hands as he repeated lie after lie. They should have demanded respect. Or, maybe they don’t believe we are in crisis?

    Stephen Hayes from the Weekly Standard pointed to the most ridiculous statement from his speech yesterday to the GOP.
    Via Freedom’s Lighthouse:



    Barack Obama saying he’s not an ideologue is like Barack Obama saying the global warming science is settled.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  9. #1629
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    West Richland, WA
    Posts
    6,397

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    For example, we said from the start that it was going to be important for us to be consistent in saying to people if you can have your -- if you want to keep the health insurance you got, you can keep it, that you're not going to have anybody getting in between you and your doctor in your decision making. And I think that some of the provisions that got snuck in might have violated that pledge.
    http://realclearpolitics.blogs.time....ing-admission/

    Obama admits that some may not have the choice to keep their own health insurance???
    Brian

  10. #1630
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    24,184

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    For all those who thought the "screw repugs... go it alone... ram it through despite the fact the majority don't want it" strategy was a winner. Coincidentally many of the same people thought voting for Obama was a good choice also.

    The 5 Stages Of Liberal Obamacare Grief

    1) Denial: This bill is popular! Look at this Daily Kos/Research 2000 poll -- it says everyone loves it! Passing this bill is the key to the Democrats doing well in 2010!

    2) Anger: You Republicans are lying about the bill and the people who don't like it are just too stupid to understand how great it will be! Why can't you see that this bill is for your own good?!?

    3) Bargaining: Come on, Republicans. We can work together to pass this bill. What if we allow insurance companies to compete across state lines? We could add that to the bill for you, we'll get everything else we want, and the bill can pass, right? Right?

    4) Depression: We had 60 Senators and a huge majority in the House! How could we have blown it again? How? How?

    5) Acceptance: "And it may be that ... if Congress decides we're not going to do it, even after all the facts are laid out, all the options are clear, then the American people can make a judgment as to whether this Congress has done the right thing for them or not. And that's how democracy works. There will be elections coming up and they'll be able to make a determination and register their concerns one way or the other during election time." -- Barack Obama
    In short.. enjoy eating that sh*t sandwich you offered the opposition a year ago.

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  11. #1631
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    8,132

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    ...meanwhile the staus quo system just gave me an increase of over 50% from last year.

    Let me know when you guys wish to stop politicizing this issue and start talking reform.

    You know, things like cost of health care and how Romney's plan got me to where I am today...

  12. #1632
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Crazy AZ USA
    Posts
    3,516

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    ...meanwhile the staus quo system just gave me an increase of over 50% from last year.

    Let me know when you guys wish to stop politicizing this issue and start talking reform.

    You know, things like cost of health care and how Romney's plan got me to where I am today...
    All that health care bill would have done is have our government join the corrupt insurance sector. I can't believe you read that POS and really believed that they were doing us a favor. Instead of privates jumping 50%, government would have jumped right on board with their own agenda driven insurance.

    Why? Because they would be driven by the same factors private insurance is.

    AMERICAN white collar industrial professionals are being massacred in the private sector- so there is a reduction in people who can pay insurance to an already overpaid and top-heavy insurance industry. The fact that growing government is ahead of private earnings ought to show the truth of that. Do you really think anything would improve? And there is one more thing that always seems to get ignored:

    Our financial sector is the one that profits at our expense either way. Until Washington is purged of its influence, be prepared to go hungry anytime now.
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  13. #1633
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    8,132

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    All that health care bill would have done is have our government join the corrupt insurance sector. I can't believe you read that POS and really believed that they were doing us a favor. Instead of privates jumping 50%, government would have jumped right on board with their own agenda driven insurance.
    The public option got shot down by Dems seeking to get the GOP on board and the GOP looking to stop anything that would let Obama look good. That is what you are describing in response to the "corrupt insurance sector". Too bad, for I feel now more than ever that the current stautus quo model will not work.

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    Why? Because they would be driven by the same factors private insurance is.
    Private insurance is driven by profits and bonuses. Not the same there.

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    AMERICAN white collar industrial professionals are being massacred in the private sector- so there is a reduction in people who can pay insurance to an already overpaid and top-heavy insurance industry. The fact that growing government is ahead of private earnings ought to show the truth of that. Do you really think anything would improve? And there is one more thing that always seems to get ignored:

    Our financial sector is the one that profits at our expense either way. Until Washington is purged of its influence, be prepared to go hungry anytime now.
    Jesus Aero, can we put aside your fixation on the OZ mantra and look at what needs to be done about health and where we can all agree while getting that message to Washington? I'm not going to get worked up about purging until I know the replacement of that vacuum.

    Most white collar industrial professionals neither see the increases I'm seeing, nor have an idea of the total cost of health that impacts their company's bottom line. I don't have the pool a large company belongs to. I don't have young employees reducing the cost for older employees.

    I am in a state that requires health coverage or get faced with a thousand dollar fine, has no preexisting condition clauses, has better hospitals than most of the nation, was based on a GOP presidential candidate's plan, and will do more to discourage small business, impact local government budgets, while killing any business expansion.

    Sorry if a family health plan that comes in at $2200 a month that last year was $1411/month makes me want to focus on the issues at hand. I think part of what I am seeing is anticipation of a federal plan and price gouging happening before hand.

    Yes, I've called each and every member representing me in Congress.

  14. #1634
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Crazy AZ USA
    Posts
    3,516

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    ....

    Private insurance is driven by profits and bonuses. Not the same there.

    Jesus Aero, can we put aside your fixation on the OZ mantra and look at what needs to be done about health and where we can all agree while getting that message to Washington? I'm not going to get worked up about purging until I know the replacement of that vacuum.

    ....
    Sorry, no way. If you fail to see the relationship of how financials profit and control from government debt that is ballooned by such legislation and double-downed by passing money through their hands.

    I've helped work benefits for a Fort500 for a while and I know pretty much how it works in my business- especially since it funds its own health plan- i.e. there is no 3rd party provider. Costs are ballooning largely because of fewer employees at the higher end. At risk, I will say they are expiring because of outsourcing- where neither health revenues are received or claims are paid. Moreover, there has also been about 15% inflation, climbing medical expenses AND there are more claims per capita for our demographic- which has made our benefit so tenuous that we have a 3rd party offering. otoc, you don't know everything- and insurance price gouging is the easy street of blame. The factors I mention would impact the government just as much as any private insurance company and there is no saying that our government would be any more responsible in their pricing either. Our government has had no qualms about squandering our social security so using healthcare as a hidden tax is certainly not beyond them.
    Last edited by AeroSim; 02-11-2010 at 07:27 PM.
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  15. #1635
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    8,132

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    Sorry, no way. If you fail to see the relationship of how financials profit and control from government debt that is ballooned by such legislation and double-downed by passing money through their hands.
    Really. Tell you what, while you campaign for abolishing the financial system, I'll focus on healthcare.

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    I've helped work benefits for a Fort500 for a while and I know pretty much how it works in my business- especially since it funds its own health plan- i.e. there is no 3rd party provider.
    So you are in benefits and your company is self insured?

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    Costs are ballooning largely because of fewer employees at the higher end. At risk, I will say they are expiring because of outsourcing- where neither health revenues are received or claims are paid.
    I don't understand costs ballooning because of "fewer employees at the higher end". The higher end of age or the higher end of salary? If your company is self insured, then how does income equate to cost of health or why doesn't a younger pool reduce costs?


    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    Moreover, there has also been about 15% inflation, climbing medical expenses AND there are more claims per capita for our demographic- which has made our benefit so tenuous that we have a 3rd party offering.
    Help me here. An over all 15% increase in cost due to increased medical costs and higher claim rates? The 3rd party offering is no longer being self insured or now outsourcing administration needs?


    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    otoc, you don't know everything-
    No I don't know everything. I don't know anyone who does. But if you notice, I'll ask a question when not clear instead of assuming what is going on in someone's mind.


    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    and insurance price gouging is the easy street of blame.
    It wasn't easy to either say "think" or "partly", but after many years of 10-15% annual increases, tell me what you think a 50% increase is all about?

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    The factors I mention would impact the government just as much as any private insurance company and there is no saying that our government would be any more responsible in their pricing either.
    So if there is no saying then what is your point here. you see the cost of health and the impact to business. I see it on local budgets as well as my business. And I've seen the status quo in corporations I've worked in. Private insurers have not handled the issues of cost containment thus far. So is your opinion to not do anything?


    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    Our government has had no qualms about squandering our social security so using healthcare as a hidden tax is certainly not beyond them.
    You know, on a topic of what government does with our SS contributions to balance the budget instead of keeping the money in an account to pay for future bennies, there is no disagreement from me. But I have trouble understanding your argument when write that government will spend health contributions for general budget needs while arguing that we will have to borrow to pay for a program and thus feed the financial sector.

    So, no Aero, I don't know everything, but I have had to deal with administering health for the last 10 years as a small business and immediately saw the differences from my experience in corporate management. My 2 hour conversation with my account rep today went over specific questions related to the system in Massachusetts mandates. I'll be passing on the info to members of congress in federal and state level positions which will be submitted with copies of my quotes as well as historical spreadsheets.

    Simply put, in this economy a 50% increase is ridiculous and an indication of how the Massachusetts system failed to address cost. The impact is immediate on many fronts and not only me. The overall range of policy increases this year is from 15% to over 50% while inflation and revenue increases on any front, be it salary, tax increases, or business income is less than 5%. Houston, we have a problem and it affects everyone except the insurers who seem to be able to increase the rates. With all due respect, I'll focus on them and the politicians while you focus on finance.

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