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  1. #46
    Joined
    Sep 2008
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    Crazy AZ USA
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    3,516

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    I really am tired of paying the medical insurance "tax". If you really want your companies to continue the burdened cost while the insurance/medicine companies continue their rape and plunder your job is simple-

    do nothing.

    You're paying for it anyhow.
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  2. #47
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    9,617

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    I really am tired of paying the medical insurance "tax". If you really want your companies to continue the burdened cost while the insurance/medicine companies continue their rape and plunder your job is simple-

    do nothing.

    You're paying for it anyhow.
    My thoughts exactly...plus having been self employed, I tire of having to subsidize those company benefits through higher rates for the same coverage. Medical care right now is a commodity.

    I wonder how the antiobamawahwahs would be reacting if this was a GOP initiative considering in this place he can do nothing good.

    My point being that the system creaks with cost overruns via meds, paperwork, employer costs, insurance overhead and the simple truth is the argument that medical care will be determined by standards is a moot point--Considering how many people are denied coverage because of preexisting conditions and illness not covered by a particular carrier.

    The system needs fixing and considering how well the government does in handling SS payments, I'm not sure if this is a bad thing. Besides, I'd rather be able to influence the system by elected officials as opposed to filing lawsuits against carriers which is next to impossible considering their clout.

  3. #48
    Joined
    Dec 2005
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    Florida
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    33
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    2,748

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Keep insurance companies at a state level, regulated by the states and the monopoly begins to fall apart.

    The same needs to be done for all business.

  4. #49
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    West Richland, WA
    Posts
    6,397

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Maybe separate health insurance from the workplace and have people shop for it like they do auto insurance. Too many people think that it is free between having employers or the government paying for almost everyone. If it were truly a competitive marketplace the costs would go down. Having the government run it is a sure road to inefficiency, higher costs, and decreased services. Anything the government touches has very high overhead.
    Brian

  5. #50
    Joined
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    Kern River Valley, CA
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Considering how magnificently Medicare, Medicaid and the VA health system work Iím sure the government will do one hell of a bang up job. Instead of paying ebil insurance companies and ebil healthcare providers youíll be paying ebil government flunkies that canít grab their ass with both hands. The damn government enables insurance companies and healthcare providers to do their nasty little tricks. The government is as guilty as they are. I hear there are thousands of healthcare lobbyists invading WDC as we speak. They all want a big piece of that trillion dollar bill.

    The government has no business competing in the private sector. Itís not their damn job to own car companies and banks or to compete with private healthcare providers.

  6. #51
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    9,617

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Invictus View Post
    Keep insurance companies at a state level, regulated by the states and the monopoly begins to fall apart.

    The same needs to be done for all business.
    I believe the current situation is exactly that, and if you meant 'keep' as 'make 'em' and not 'don't allow them to change from state regulation', then I suppose we are seeing first hand how state regulation works.

    http://www.naic.org/documents/consum..._reg_brief.pdf
    A Brief History
    Benjamin Franklin helped found the insurance industry in the United States in 1752 with the
    Philadelphia Contributionship for the Insurance of Houses from Loss by Fire. The current state
    insurance regulatory framework has its roots in the 19th century with New Hampshire appointing
    the first insurance commissioner in 1851. Insurance regulatorsí responsibilities grew in scope
    and complexity as the industry evolved. Congress adopted the McCarran-Ferguson Act in 1945
    to declare that states should regulate the business of insurance and to affirm that the continued
    regulation of the insurance industry by the states was in the publicís best interest.

    The Financial Modernization Act of 1999also called Gramm-Leach-Blileyestablished a
    comprehensive framework to permit affiliations among banks, securities firms and insurance
    companies. Gramm-Leach-Bliley once again acknowledged that states should regulate the
    business of insurance. However, Congress also called for state reform to allow insurance
    companies to compete more effectively in the newly integrated financial service marketplace and
    to respond with innovation and flexibility to evermore demanding consumer needsall while
    continuing to protect consumers, which is the hallmark of state regulation.
    I see this as an argument for basic constitutional rights for equal treatment. I've seen firsthand how each state treats people differently. I firmly believe this should be a federal issue.

  7. #52
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    9,617

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Considering how magnificently Medicare, Medicaid and the VA health system work Iím sure the government will do one hell of a bang up job. Instead of paying ebil insurance companies and ebil healthcare providers youíll be paying ebil government flunkies that canít grab their ass with both hands. The damn government enables insurance companies and healthcare providers to do their nasty little tricks. The government is as guilty as they are. I hear there are thousands of healthcare lobbyists invading WDC as we speak. They all want a big piece of that trillion dollar bill.

    The government has no business competing in the private sector. Itís not their damn job to own car companies and banks or to compete with private healthcare providers.
    I'm still learning but I believe Medicare and Medicaid are also state regulated. My dad has gotten decent care from the VA and I think the issue with that organization is that it is underfunded for what it should be doing. Better funding would also attract more doctors to allow better patient/doctor relationships to last for a long time period. A system can't compete if every time you go you see a new doctor. Not until better electronic records exist.

  8. #53
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Crazy AZ USA
    Posts
    3,516

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Considering how magnificently Medicare, Medicaid and the VA health system work I’m sure the government will do one hell of a bang up job. Instead of paying ebil insurance companies and ebil healthcare providers you’ll be paying ebil government flunkies that can’t grab their ass with both hands. The damn government enables insurance companies and healthcare providers to do their nasty little tricks. The government is as guilty as they are. I hear there are thousands of healthcare lobbyists invading WDC as we speak. They all want a big piece of that trillion dollar bill.

    The government has no business competing in the private sector. It’s not their damn job to own car companies and banks or to compete with private healthcare providers.
    I'm going to tell you like it is.

    PPO Medical/Dental insurance costs OVER $10,000 per family person per year for my company (so I can't give specifics). Much of that is paid out-of-pocket by employees. Since the average wage is ~60K/yr, you do the math as to how much we are paying anyhow. And then ask yourself why they are outsourcing where they pay $0 for any of it. Then let's add insult to injury- we're still also paying deductibles and co-pays ... and that's for in-network service. And God help you if you go out-of-network for much coverage.

    Now any US company may make you pay more or less out of your paycheck, but their costs can run between $5-15,000 per employee per year depending on coverage. And these are at group rates.

    How many times do I have to say that the government shouldn't run it- but to leave this in the hands of profit-based companies is no solution either.
    Last edited by AeroSim; 06-23-2009 at 01:19 PM.
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  9. #54
    Joined
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Kern River Valley, CA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    14,795

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    I'm still learning but I believe Medicare and Medicaid are also state regulated. My dad has gotten decent care from the VA and I think the issue with that organization is that it is underfunded for what it should be doing. Better funding would also attract more doctors to allow better patient/doctor relationships to last for a long time period. A system can't compete if every time you go you see a new doctor. Not until better electronic records exist.

    Iím not completely sure but I think Medicare is strictly a federal gig. Medicaid has both federal and state guidelines so you get sort of a double whammy of red tape and inefficiency. Itís hard to tell with the VA the care seems to vary from hospital to hospital. One VA hospital might be ok while another might totally suck. Money is a big problem itís hard to keep trained doctors and nurses simply because of the pay scale. Many doctors and nurses get their training at VA facilities and soon move on to private practice. Many VA hospitals depend on college and university medical facilities for certain treatments and procedures because they donít have the knowledge or equipment.

  10. #55
    Joined
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    Kern River Valley, CA
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    69
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    14,795

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    I wonder how many of the 40 million or whatever the number is of uninsured might be eligible for Medicaid assistance. I wonder how many have the money for healthcare insurance and choose not to pay for it. I wonder how many billions of dollars are wasted on caring for both legal and illegal immigrants who have no insurance. I wonder how many billions of dollars go to waste, fraud and abuse.

    I see lots of places to cut cost but the government hasn’t got the balls to make unpopular decisions.
    Last edited by tucker; 06-23-2009 at 02:19 PM.

  11. #56
    Joined
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    Location
    Kern River Valley, CA
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    69
    Posts
    14,795

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    I'm going to tell you like it is.

    PPO Medical/Dental insurance costs OVER $10,000 per family person per year for my company (so I can't give specifics). Much of that is paid out-of-pocket by employees. Since the average wage is ~60K/yr, you do the math as to how much we are paying anyhow. And then ask yourself why they are outsourcing where they pay $0 for any of it. Then let's add insult to injury- we're still also paying deductibles and co-pays ... and that's for in-network service. And God help you if you go out-of-network for much coverage.

    Now any US company may make you pay more or less out of your paycheck, but their costs can run between $5-15,000 per employee per year depending on coverage. And these are at group rates.

    How many times do I have to say that the government shouldn't run it- but to leave this in the hands of profit-based companies is no solution either.


    I think most people believe our healthcare system is in dire straits the big problem is how to fix it. Obviously it’s not an easy problem to solve. I think Obama would be very wise to listen to all suggestions and methods before making any decisions. What he is proposing now looks like a sure loser to me. Like the stimulus he’s trying to rush the process making it nearly impossible to come up with the best solutions. This guy has way too much on his plate and it’s going to end up with everything he’s done turning into a shitsandwich.
    Last edited by tucker; 06-23-2009 at 01:50 PM.

  12. #57
    Joined
    Nov 2002
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    In bed with one of my avatar AMD girls :D
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    37
    Posts
    8,876

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by bk94si View Post
    Unless your taxes go up by the same amount of healthcare you use in a year, someone else is paying for you. ENTITLED??? Why are you entitled to someone else paying for YOUR healthcare???
    lol and you still dont get it.

    Maybe you should put down the bible and start reading up on basic human rights.

  13. #58
    Joined
    Nov 2002
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    In bed with one of my avatar AMD girls :D
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    8,876

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by bk94si View Post
    "You don't need that MRI, a CT scan is just as good".
    Gee,im sure a private insurance company would say the same thing just to cut costs

    Quote Originally Posted by bk94si View Post
    "We don't care if you need that medication. It's too expensive. This one works almost as well."
    Same as above

    Quote Originally Posted by bk94si View Post
    "You need a new liver. Okay, we'll put you on the waiting list. We project that one will be available... oh wait, how long to you have to live".
    So if they need a new liver urgently they are put on a waiting list?
    What about the person that cant afford the new liver?
    What if they are rich they are more eligible for the liver then a poor person?

  14. #59
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    25,331

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Poci View Post
    lol and you still dont get it.

    Maybe you should put down the bible and start reading up on basic human rights.
    "Basic human rights" includes health care for all at my expense?
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  15. #60
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    West Richland, WA
    Posts
    6,397

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Poci View Post
    lol and you still dont get it.

    Maybe you should put down the bible and start reading up on basic human rights.

    Maybe you should pick up an economics book.

    The only way to make healthcare EQUAL for everyone is to make it HORRIBLE for everyone. Your line of reasoning has no end. Is it fair that we have better healthcare in the USA than in sub-saharan Africa? Do we have to pay for their healthcare also? Isn't it a basic right? What about New Guinea? Iran?
    Brian

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