Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

[AMDScooter]

Fine, the republicans don't like it....I get that. But they have no plan of their own. This is so friggin familiar to all of the times us libs were bitching about republican policy an you guys were critical of us for being a party of no ideas, obstructionists, etc. Lets not pretend for a second that the republicans would EVER support a bill that Obama supported. Obama could walk on water and the Repug talking heads would be on that day criticizing him for not being able to swim.

Again.. it's not just that "republicans don't like it". Check the polls. Its nearly all the repugs.. about 75% of independents and a smattering from the (D) party itself. You cannot stick this on the repugs. About the "no ideas" or "party of no" bit I understand your position there. There have been some repug proposals.. they were shot down flatly without consideration. Why waste much needed cycles that are much better spent opposing the POS the (D)'s aare trying to ramrod thru? Admit it.. if the "debate" had not been slowed for the August recess THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NO DEBATE! Again.. they brought this grassroots sh*tstorm on themselves.

I don't like it, not one bit.

Yet all the criticism (even by yourself) is directed toward repugs, those you claim are our leaders, insurance companies and the protesters. Where were all the cries from the left to slow the f*ck down and lets actually read this sh*t before we move on?? This is our healthcare and 1/6 of the godd@m economy we're talking about the gubberment taking over here...not just renaming a post office, library or park. Where were all the questions from the left about the lack of transparency your candidate promised repeatedly? Where were all the calls from the left for answers to the nefarious back room deals with the Pharma lobby we've pretty much known about for some time and recently confirmed with the leaked memo?

You don't like it? Try to control your anger there BD.

See and I think the problem is that they are even involving the republicans to begin with. As I stated earlier in this post, republicans are never going to support this. So why in the hell are you going to invite Chuck Grassley and his cohorts into a negotiation of a bill so they can get what they want. THEY AREN'T EVEN GOING TO VOTE FOR THIS BILL. It would be political suicide for any republican to support it, at least given their current talking points. So the dems should just own the damn thing and say "this is why you elected us." But stop putting timetables on negotiations with idiot republicans who want to see the bill fail.

They are trying to get some token (R)'s to go along for one reason only. So when this sh*t sandwich ultimately fails to deliver they can claim it was a partisan effort and not be held completely accountable like they will be for the $787 Billion dollar porkulus and cappintrade. Simply put.. they do not want to OWN this piece of sh*t either. And I have a sneaking suspicion you are already fully aware of this point. They cannot even get the support they need from their own party.. that tells the story itself.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#32411068

Just watch Scooter, and maybe you'll understand the blatant hypocrisy. And then you wonder how many of the people who listen to these people deal with the cognitive dissonance.

You think I need lessons about "blatant hypocrisy" & "cognitive dissonance" from a bit done at MSDNC whose primetime lineup consists of:

Shultzy
Maddow
Matthews
Obermann

Seriously? Please.. give me a f*cking break. You might as well have linked thinkprogress. Clean up your own political backyard. Until then I'd recommend stepping away from that pile of rocks.

Actually, they are only labeling the ones showing up with swastikas and guns

Actually.. my post above shows otherwise.

[tucker]

The thing that really amazes me is people put all the blame on the insurance companies as if the politicians are Lilly white. You can bet your bottom both repubs and dems get money from insurance company lobbyists.

I just can’t believe all of the new found faith in the government it makes no sense. It must be one of those born again Christian type of thingys…

[AMDScooter]

Lets see...

SEIU thugs are putting the beatdown on protesters...
Pharma is getting BILLION$ in payola from the "hopenchange" administration and sinking $150 Million+ into pro obammacare ads
ACORN and the UNIONS are bussing in paid protesters to counter the grassroots



(D)'s are planting OFA people to ask softball questions at townhalls

But repugs are astroturfing...

Protesters Surround ACORN Bus Leaving Town Hall-- Chant "DON'T COME BACK!" (Video)

Dems Bus-ted!


Town Hall protesters surrounded the ACORN bus leaving the Specter town hall meeting in Pennsylvania. The protesters chanted,
"DON'T COME BACK!... GET A REAL JOB!"
HotAirPundit has more video of the ACORN busses.

Sadly for the Democrats-- The real astroturfed protesters were caught again on their bus:



Scared Monkeys has video of more bussed in paid protesters at the New Hampshire town hall this week.

Obviously, these unruly protesters (or mob, if you prefer) did not read Michelle Malkin's proper rules of protesting.

[otoc]

Why are we having this debate now and why are the democrats in such a big hurry to cram this PS legislation down everybody’s throat. Let’s have a debate when the dems come up with a final bill and this time let’s do the debating before it’s signed into law. The dems absolutely don’t want that because the people would reject it in a heartbeat.

People are getting involved and when they do they are called everything from Nazis’ to racists. The fact is the dems want no debate or bipartisanship.

why now? why not when clinton came in (tried). Why not when Bush was in (tried to a small degree).

The debate is while the bill is in the works. And will most likely be when the bill gets finalized (my choice).

Yes people are getting involved and not being called names. On both sides. Some are exceptions and riled to no discussion point.

[tucker]

Lets see...

SEIU thugs are putting the beatdown on protesters...
Pharma is getting BILLION$ in payola from the "hopenchange" administration and sinking $150 Million+ into pro obammacare ads
ACORN and the UNIONS are bussing in paid protesters to counter the grassroots



(D)'s are planting OFA people to ask softball questions at townhalls

But repugs are astroturfing...

Protesters Surround ACORN Bus Leaving Town Hall-- Chant "DON'T COME BACK!" (Video)

Heh, this must be what Obama meant by his own private army. I might add both are being well paid by Obama’s stimulus package and other sweetheart deals.

I half way believe we might see some violence soon and guess who’s going to get all of the blame.

[otoc]

^^^ How did the insurance/medical providers get involved funding fear groups? I have not seen any evidence of that happening. Who are these fear groups? Which insurance/medical providers are you talking about?

Also, how is it that you are comfortable with the pharmaceuticals spending $150 million to lobby for Obama's non-plan in exchange for back-room promises by the Won?

sorry, I have one parent in er right now and one being prepard for interstate transfer. My words might not be on spot because I'm not paying attention here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_258285.html

http://www.latimes.com/features/heal...,3660985.story

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/he...-hall-rallies/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124891353497192109.html



So no, I'm not concerned that Obama met with an exGOP lobbyist for the drug companies and worked out a non binding deal that for the first time allow business to come to the table.

I'm not concerned that insurance companies are half on the table because they see the writing on the wall. I just read that article and have adjusted my thinking more in line with something I said to Aero.

I do see funding the hate ala swiftboats and seeing a commitment to a pro side campaign --good for both. But considering the bias of the guy feeding all those average joes, well, lol, keep it up for...

Ad Audit: Conservatives For Patients' Rights "Squeezes" The Truth



and more importantly...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...r.html?showall

dutch gotta get back to these real life heath situations.

[otoc]

I remember that last time I didn't like how people were treated in regards to health care there although the incompetence didn't matter because I am in a different country.

didn't want this to go unnoticed. when all parties come to the table with the same goal in mind you saw what happened...

[otoc]

Lets see...

SEIU thugs are putting the beatdown on protesters...
Pharma is getting BILLION$ in payola from the "hopenchange" administration and sinking $150 Million+ into pro obammacare ads
ACORN and the UNIONS are bussing in paid protesters to counter the grassroots



(D)'s are planting OFA people to ask softball questions at townhalls

But repugs are astroturfing...

Protesters Surround ACORN Bus Leaving Town Hall-- Chant "DON'T COME BACK!" (Video)

billions in payola? gotta link?

Known entities supporting a position?

That's not astroturf

Astroturfing

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
For the artificial grass, see AstroTurf.
Astroturfing is a word in English describing formal political, advertising, or public relations campaigns seeking to create the impression of being spontaneous "grassroots" behavior, hence the reference to the artificial grass, AstroTurf.
The goal of such a campaign is to disguise the efforts of a political or commercial entity as an independent public reaction to some political entity—a politician, political group, product, service or event. Astroturfers attempt to orchestrate the actions of apparently diverse and geographically distributed individuals, by both overt ("outreach", "awareness", etc.) and covert (disinformation) means. Astroturfing may be undertaken by an individual pushing a personal agenda or highly organized professional groups with financial backing from large corporations, non-profits, or activist organizations. Very often the efforts are conducted by political consultants who also specialize in opposition research.

let me explain. I know where a person stands when they are bused in by a group, I know where a union member is standing by reading their union position paper.

You make it seem like the blockage, that's what it is, is a simple matter of people reading the bill on their own and coming to the conclusion that yelling, getting mad is a grassroots thing.

Considering the previous links in serveral threads, the organization of all these groups-formally declared and cross trained- personally, while I see a reaction of getting like minded people to show up and balance the message, there is one side stating this is a grassroots uprising of people against obamacare. that is astroturf.

[AMDScooter]

billions in payola? gotta link?

Internal Memo Confirms Big Giveaways In White House Deal With Big Pharma

A memo obtained by the Huffington Post confirms that the White House and the pharmaceutical lobby secretly agreed to precisely the sort of wide-ranging deal that both parties have been denying over the past week.

The memo, which according to a knowledgeable health care lobbyist was prepared by a person directly involved in the negotiations, lists exactly what the White House gave up, and what it got in return.

It says the White House agreed to oppose any congressional efforts to use the government's leverage to bargain for lower drug prices or import drugs from Canada -- and also agreed not to pursue Medicare rebates or shift some drugs from Medicare Part B to Medicare Part D, which would cost Big Pharma billions in reduced reimbursements.

In exchange, the Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers Association (PhRMA) agreed to cut $80 billion in projected costs to taxpayers and senior citizens over ten years. Or, as the memo says: "Commitment of up to $80 billion, but not more than $80 billion."

[Dutchcedar]

sorry, I have one parent in er right now and one being prepard for interstate transfer. My words might not be on spot because I'm not paying attention here.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_258285.html

http://www.latimes.com/features/heal...,3660985.story

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/he...-hall-rallies/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124891353497192109.html



So no, I'm not concerned that Obama met with an exGOP lobbyist for the drug companies and worked out a non binding deal that for the first time allow business to come to the table.

I'm not concerned that insurance companies are half on the table because they see the writing on the wall. I just read that article and have adjusted my thinking more in line with something I said to Aero.

I do see funding the hate ala swiftboats and seeing a commitment to a pro side campaign --good for both. But considering the bias of the guy feeding all those average joes, well, lol, keep it up for...

Ad Audit: Conservatives For Patients' Rights "Squeezes" The Truth



and more importantly...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...r.html?showall

dutch gotta get back to these real life heath situations.

Unless the answers are in the videos... which is doubtful...

I'm seeing confirmation of the $80 billion concession and $150 million dollar of promotional support from PhRMA to Obama in those links, and one claim of "millions" from CPR, who "is emailing out “town hall alert” flyers, and schedules of town hall meetings, to its mailing list." But Conservatives for Patients Rights is not an insurance or medical provider.

Interestingly, the first link actually answers the question you posed to Scooter about the PhRMA deal you knew nothing about.

So I'm still curious about how the insurance/medical providers get involved funding fear groups. I have not seen any evidence of that happening. Who are these fear groups? Which insurance/medical providers are you talking about?

And... no hurry and best wishes for safe travel for your folks.

[tucker]

“What we’ve got here is a failure to communicate”

Let’s see who flinches first.

[otoc]

scoot, dutch.

The pharmaceutical companies in agreeing to $80 billion in cuts is payola?

For whom, patients?

[Dutchcedar]

scoot, dutch.

The pharmaceutical companies in agreeing to $80 billion in cuts is payola?

For whom, patients?

I called it a concession.

Its probably fair to call the $150 million as payola, though, no?

[AMDScooter]

scoot, dutch.

The pharmaceutical companies in agreeing to $80 billion in cuts is payola?

For whom, patients?

No. the WH in back room dealing (it has categorically denied up to this point) agreeing to:

oppose any congressional efforts to use the government's leverage to bargain for lower drug prices or import drugs from Canada -- and also agreed not to pursue Medicare rebates or shift some drugs from Medicare Part B to Medicare Part D, which would cost Big Pharma billions in reduced reimbursements.

in exchange for:

the Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers Association (PhRMA) agreed to cut $80 billion in projected costs to taxpayers and senior citizens over ten years. Or, as the memo says: "Commitment of up to $80 billion, but not more than $80 billion."

Then add in the $150 Million in pro~Obammacare advertising from pharma. If not payola.. how would you describe the transaction? Payola with a straight up quid pro quo kicker? I might have still retched a bit and allowed the billions pharma is looking to benefit be called a "concession" had negotiations been transparent... they were however not.

[Enmore]

Conservative Party Euro MEP Daniel Hannan takes a pop at the British National Health Service (NHS) on Fox:



He got into trouble for that with his party leader for that. The NHS is a big golden cow of the left over here and the Conservative Party don't want to rock the boat before their landslide win in next June's general election.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6797165.ece