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  1. #721
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    The thing that really amazes me is people put all the blame on the insurance companies as if the politicians are Lilly white. You can bet your bottom both repubs and dems get money from insurance company lobbyists.

    I just can’t believe all of the new found faith in the government it makes no sense. It must be one of those born again Christian type of thingys…

  2. #722
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Lets see...

    SEIU thugs are putting the beatdown on protesters...
    Pharma is getting BILLION$ in payola from the "hopenchange" administration and sinking $150 Million+ into pro obammacare ads
    ACORN and the UNIONS are bussing in paid protesters to counter the grassroots



    (D)'s are planting OFA people to ask softball questions at townhalls

    But repugs are astroturfing...

    Protesters Surround ACORN Bus Leaving Town Hall-- Chant "DON'T COME BACK!" (Video)

    Dems Bus-ted!


    Town Hall protesters surrounded the ACORN bus leaving the Specter town hall meeting in Pennsylvania. The protesters chanted,
    "DON'T COME BACK!... GET A REAL JOB!"
    HotAirPundit has more video of the ACORN busses.

    Sadly for the Democrats-- The real astroturfed protesters were caught again on their bus:



    Scared Monkeys has video of more bussed in paid protesters at the New Hampshire town hall this week.

    Obviously, these unruly protesters (or mob, if you prefer) did not read Michelle Malkin's proper rules of protesting.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  3. #723
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    8,132

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Why are we having this debate now and why are the democrats in such a big hurry to cram this PS legislation down everybody’s throat. Let’s have a debate when the dems come up with a final bill and this time let’s do the debating before it’s signed into law. The dems absolutely don’t want that because the people would reject it in a heartbeat.

    People are getting involved and when they do they are called everything from Nazis’ to racists. The fact is the dems want no debate or bipartisanship.
    why now? why not when clinton came in (tried). Why not when Bush was in (tried to a small degree).

    The debate is while the bill is in the works. And will most likely be when the bill gets finalized (my choice).

    Yes people are getting involved and not being called names. On both sides. Some are exceptions and riled to no discussion point.

  4. #724
    Joined
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    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Lets see...

    SEIU thugs are putting the beatdown on protesters...
    Pharma is getting BILLION$ in payola from the "hopenchange" administration and sinking $150 Million+ into pro obammacare ads
    ACORN and the UNIONS are bussing in paid protesters to counter the grassroots



    (D)'s are planting OFA people to ask softball questions at townhalls

    But repugs are astroturfing...

    Protesters Surround ACORN Bus Leaving Town Hall-- Chant "DON'T COME BACK!" (Video)



    Heh, this must be what Obama meant by his own private army. I might add both are being well paid by Obama’s stimulus package and other sweetheart deals.

    I half way believe we might see some violence soon and guess who’s going to get all of the blame.

  5. #725
    Joined
    Apr 2002
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    8,132

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    ^^^ How did the insurance/medical providers get involved funding fear groups? I have not seen any evidence of that happening. Who are these fear groups? Which insurance/medical providers are you talking about?

    Also, how is it that you are comfortable with the pharmaceuticals spending $150 million to lobby for Obama's non-plan in exchange for back-room promises by the Won?
    sorry, I have one parent in er right now and one being prepard for interstate transfer. My words might not be on spot because I'm not paying attention here.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_258285.html

    http://www.latimes.com/features/heal...,3660985.story

    http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/he...-hall-rallies/

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124891353497192109.html



    So no, I'm not concerned that Obama met with an exGOP lobbyist for the drug companies and worked out a non binding deal that for the first time allow business to come to the table.

    I'm not concerned that insurance companies are half on the table because they see the writing on the wall. I just read that article and have adjusted my thinking more in line with something I said to Aero.

    I do see funding the hate ala swiftboats and seeing a commitment to a pro side campaign --good for both. But considering the bias of the guy feeding all those average joes, well, lol, keep it up for...

    Ad Audit: Conservatives For Patients' Rights "Squeezes" The Truth



    and more importantly...

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...r.html?showall

    dutch gotta get back to these real life heath situations.

  6. #726
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    8,132

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dfxrain View Post
    I remember that last time I didn't like how people were treated in regards to health care there although the incompetence didn't matter because I am in a different country.
    didn't want this to go unnoticed. when all parties come to the table with the same goal in mind you saw what happened...

  7. #727
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    8,132

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    Lets see...

    SEIU thugs are putting the beatdown on protesters...
    Pharma is getting BILLION$ in payola from the "hopenchange" administration and sinking $150 Million+ into pro obammacare ads
    ACORN and the UNIONS are bussing in paid protesters to counter the grassroots



    (D)'s are planting OFA people to ask softball questions at townhalls

    But repugs are astroturfing...

    Protesters Surround ACORN Bus Leaving Town Hall-- Chant "DON'T COME BACK!" (Video)
    billions in payola? gotta link?

    Known entities supporting a position?

    That's not astroturf

    Astroturfing

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Jump to: navigation, search
    For the artificial grass, see AstroTurf.
    Astroturfing is a word in English describing formal political, advertising, or public relations campaigns seeking to create the impression of being spontaneous "grassroots" behavior, hence the reference to the artificial grass, AstroTurf.
    The goal of such a campaign is to disguise the efforts of a political or commercial entity as an independent public reaction to some political entity—a politician, political group, product, service or event. Astroturfers attempt to orchestrate the actions of apparently diverse and geographically distributed individuals, by both overt ("outreach", "awareness", etc.) and covert (disinformation) means. Astroturfing may be undertaken by an individual pushing a personal agenda or highly organized professional groups with financial backing from large corporations, non-profits, or activist organizations. Very often the efforts are conducted by political consultants who also specialize in opposition research.
    let me explain. I know where a person stands when they are bused in by a group, I know where a union member is standing by reading their union position paper.

    You make it seem like the blockage, that's what it is, is a simple matter of people reading the bill on their own and coming to the conclusion that yelling, getting mad is a grassroots thing.

    Considering the previous links in serveral threads, the organization of all these groups-formally declared and cross trained- personally, while I see a reaction of getting like minded people to show up and balance the message, there is one side stating this is a grassroots uprising of people against obamacare. that is astroturf.
    Last edited by otoc; 08-14-2009 at 02:48 PM.

  8. #728
    Joined
    Mar 2002
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    California
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    24,183

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    billions in payola? gotta link?
    Internal Memo Confirms Big Giveaways In White House Deal With Big Pharma

    A memo obtained by the Huffington Post confirms that the White House and the pharmaceutical lobby secretly agreed to precisely the sort of wide-ranging deal that both parties have been denying over the past week.

    The memo, which according to a knowledgeable health care lobbyist was prepared by a person directly involved in the negotiations, lists exactly what the White House gave up, and what it got in return.

    It says the White House agreed to oppose any congressional efforts to use the government's leverage to bargain for lower drug prices or import drugs from Canada -- and also agreed not to pursue Medicare rebates or shift some drugs from Medicare Part B to Medicare Part D, which would cost Big Pharma billions in reduced reimbursements.

    In exchange, the Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers Association (PhRMA) agreed to cut $80 billion in projected costs to taxpayers and senior citizens over ten years. Or, as the memo says: "Commitment of up to $80 billion, but not more than $80 billion."



    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  9. #729
    Joined
    May 2002
    Location
    Twain Harte, CA
    Posts
    17,049

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    sorry, I have one parent in er right now and one being prepard for interstate transfer. My words might not be on spot because I'm not paying attention here.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_258285.html

    http://www.latimes.com/features/heal...,3660985.story

    http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/he...-hall-rallies/

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124891353497192109.html



    So no, I'm not concerned that Obama met with an exGOP lobbyist for the drug companies and worked out a non binding deal that for the first time allow business to come to the table.

    I'm not concerned that insurance companies are half on the table because they see the writing on the wall. I just read that article and have adjusted my thinking more in line with something I said to Aero.

    I do see funding the hate ala swiftboats and seeing a commitment to a pro side campaign --good for both. But considering the bias of the guy feeding all those average joes, well, lol, keep it up for...

    Ad Audit: Conservatives For Patients' Rights "Squeezes" The Truth



    and more importantly...

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmi...r.html?showall

    dutch gotta get back to these real life heath situations.
    Unless the answers are in the videos... which is doubtful...

    I'm seeing confirmation of the $80 billion concession and $150 million dollar of promotional support from PhRMA to Obama in those links, and one claim of "millions" from CPR, who "is emailing out “town hall alert” flyers, and schedules of town hall meetings, to its mailing list." But Conservatives for Patients Rights is not an insurance or medical provider.

    Interestingly, the first link actually answers the question you posed to Scooter about the PhRMA deal you knew nothing about.

    So I'm still curious about how the insurance/medical providers get involved funding fear groups. I have not seen any evidence of that happening. Who are these fear groups? Which insurance/medical providers are you talking about?

    And... no hurry and best wishes for safe travel for your folks.
    Last edited by Dutchcedar; 08-14-2009 at 03:29 PM.

  10. #730
    Joined
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    Kern River Valley, CA
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    9,574

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    “What we’ve got here is a failure to communicate”

    Let’s see who flinches first.

  11. #731
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    8,132

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    scoot, dutch.

    The pharmaceutical companies in agreeing to $80 billion in cuts is payola?

    For whom, patients?

  12. #732
    Joined
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    Location
    Twain Harte, CA
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    17,049

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    scoot, dutch.

    The pharmaceutical companies in agreeing to $80 billion in cuts is payola?

    For whom, patients?
    I called it a concession.

    Its probably fair to call the $150 million as payola, though, no?

  13. #733
    Joined
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    Location
    California
    Posts
    24,183

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    scoot, dutch.

    The pharmaceutical companies in agreeing to $80 billion in cuts is payola?

    For whom, patients?
    No. the WH in back room dealing (it has categorically denied up to this point) agreeing to:

    oppose any congressional efforts to use the government's leverage to bargain for lower drug prices or import drugs from Canada -- and also agreed not to pursue Medicare rebates or shift some drugs from Medicare Part B to Medicare Part D, which would cost Big Pharma billions in reduced reimbursements.
    in exchange for:

    the Pharmaceutical Researchers and Manufacturers Association (PhRMA) agreed to cut $80 billion in projected costs to taxpayers and senior citizens over ten years. Or, as the memo says: "Commitment of up to $80 billion, but not more than $80 billion."
    Then add in the $150 Million in pro~Obammacare advertising from pharma. If not payola.. how would you describe the transaction? Payola with a straight up quid pro quo kicker? I might have still retched a bit and allowed the billions pharma is looking to benefit be called a "concession" had negotiations been transparent... they were however not.
    Last edited by AMDScooter; 08-14-2009 at 04:54 PM.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  14. #734
    Joined
    Nov 2001
    Location
    E n g l a n d
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    10,979

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    Conservative Party Euro MEP Daniel Hannan takes a pop at the British National Health Service (NHS) on Fox:



    He got into trouble for that with his party leader for that. The NHS is a big golden cow of the left over here and the Conservative Party don't want to rock the boat before their landslide win in next June's general election.


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6797165.ece

  15. #735
    Joined
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    Corruptfornia
    Posts
    3,786

    Re: Obama's "Public" Health Care Plan

    It's a right wing conspiracy to disrupt the plan. All heed, the Great Oz
    will deliver us from ourselves.

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