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  1. #1
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    I overclocked, now what? :)

    Well, today, I finally had time to sit down and attempt to really push my system to it's limits. Made a bet with a friend, he said I'd never get to 3.1 GHz on the SB700 with the stock cooler.

    Well he was part right. The stock cooler was a piece of garbage, and my load temps at just 3 GHZ were already approaching 55C. I was a bit confused because the core temps were running about 40C, but the CPU temp (in HWMonitor) was saying 55C. Obviously, there are two different sensors, and for arguments sake, I went with the hotter of the two temps.

    So, after nearly admitting defeat, I scoured my house for something I could use to cool the CPU further. That lead me to an old Vantec tornado (80mm kind, the very LOUD ones). I removed the crappy fan off it, and macgyvered the tornado onto the heatsink. Temps dropped to 40C @ 3ghz. so, was definitely moving in the right direction.

    Finally, after an entire day of messing with voltages, running benchmarks, and stress tests, i was able to hit 14x@222 for 3.11 ghz. it ran prime95 for 6 hours before i got bored and quit (will run again overnight).

    unfortunately, i really had to increase some volts before things would settle down. ended up increasing the nb .50 volts because lowering the ht link/nb speed only seemed to make is less stable. increased both the cpu-vid and vcore .50 as well, and now it's running after/during stress test about 44-46c full load. Will eventually get another heatsink and fan combo (really want a 120mm for fan) to get things working.

    i tried 223 mhz, but nothing seemed to work, 3dmark would lockup which lead me to ram, which is possible, but even running it @ 6/6/6/18/24 it still locked up. amazing how 1 mhz causes so much trouble. so i'm thinking lowering the bus speed on the ram might be a good idea (currently running 888, only rated @ 800).

    was however, able to get it running 4/4/4/12/16 @2.0V, which is a bit of an overvolt but not too much, and ram is not even warm to touch. increasing ram voltage to 2.0-2.1 didn't do anything for that 223 mhz problem. didn't want to mess with sb voltage, doubt that was the issue.

    i realize the sb700 is not a good chipset for overclocking, and from what research i've done, seems to indicate that i got about all i can get. in the end, dunno if more is possible, but cooler and quieter would be far better.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  2. #2
    Joined
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Vvardenfell
    Age
    58
    Posts
    10,924

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    In general (and there are exceptions) locking up is overheating, and BSODs are down to RAM issues. To test, just drop the RAM divider: if the problem goes away, it was the RAM. It might also be worth dropping the RAM voltage after dropping the divider, to check that the RAM isn't overheating.

    But if I'm following correctly, Prime works but 3DMark does not? Prime should be run on Blend for extended testing. If this is still true, it sounds more like a GFX card issue than a CPU one. If I misunderstood, sorry.


    M

  3. #3
    Joined
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    643

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    3.1 was about all I could go on my buddy's X2 7750 when I put it together earlier this year. It was on a Biostar TA790GX 128M with the SB750, with 4GB of G.Skill 1066 memory, an ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 64 Pro and a CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W power supply.

  4. #4
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    In general (and there are exceptions) locking up is overheating, and BSODs are down to RAM issues. To test, just drop the RAM divider: if the problem goes away, it was the RAM. It might also be worth dropping the RAM voltage after dropping the divider, to check that the RAM isn't overheating.

    But if I'm following correctly, Prime works but 3DMark does not? Prime should be run on Blend for extended testing. If this is still true, it sounds more like a GFX card issue than a CPU one. If I misunderstood, sorry.


    M
    Yup, prime ran overnight and crashed out about 8 hours into it, which is more than i expected. Before that, i got about 4.5 hours before it would crash. The only thing I changed was I upped the NB freq to 2200 from 2000 and that seemed to make a big difference. I've read that it should be the other way, but who knows. System is slightly more snappier with it higher and my sandra memory scores are higher as well.

    graphics card isn't overclocked at all, and neither is the pci e bus, so i'm thinking it's not graphics, but I suppose anything is possible. i would almost always crash at the sm3 tests (usually the first one), and almost always at the same point, very end when the dragon tries to eat the ship.

    overall, i need to test the pc out a bit more, and see how much stability is lost. my only real concern about it failing prime is I do alot of video encodes and i'm hoping it will not decide to error out in the middle of a 4 hour encode.

    I'm not disappointed in my overclock; 400 mhz is not bad, over 10%, was hoping for a bit more, but will settle for this until I get some better cooling.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  5. #5
    Joined
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    8,739

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    i even had that cpu busting prime in the 10th hour.

    i used the multis.




    ud

  6. #6
    Joined
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Vvardenfell
    Age
    58
    Posts
    10,924

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Are you running 64-bit Vista or 7? 3DMark06 has issues with both, and the crashes may be down to that.


    M

  7. #7
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    Are you running 64-bit Vista or 7? 3DMark06 has issues with both, and the crashes may be down to that.


    M
    As a matter of fact, I am.

    Buddy of mine came over today to help me with this, since I'm good with PCs, but not good with overclocking. So many factors to consider, most revolve around heat.

    Anyway, I'll just use this post as a bit of a diary as to what he's doing and done, see what you guys think.

    He's overclocked PCs to the point where they should be producing uranium.

    He's under the impression that i'm looking at this the wrong way. While RAW MHZ are important, he believes I'll get much better performance from overclocking the htt rather than just the multiplier. Makes sense to me, since this is how i used to do it back in the Athlon XP days. given that all components are solid, you can get some very nice performance gains.

    So, he started by reducing my multiplier and raising the fSB 5 mhz, then running a simple test in windows (encoding a simple 10min video clip using vdub) -- he liked this method because he can force vdub to multi thread.

    so far, as I'm typing this, we've gotten the bus up to 255mhz @10x multiplier.

    his mission he said, is to find out where the ram becomes unstable and move on from there. honestly, i thought we just hit the wall at 255, encode was crashing...but he laughed and said, now we raise the sb voltage to stabilize. So, he started at .50v increase, vdub froze, but didn't bsod, and then he went to 1v and now it runs stable. dropped it back to .75 (says no reason to add more than necessary) and it worked fine.

    i'm honestly shocked this memory is even doing this speed, since it's clocked at 1020 (5/5/5/15/20) -- he just laughed when i said that and stated that my memory is mushkin which has a long history of being good, and the speed isn't what's important it's the voltage and anything under 2.1v is good for it, over and without very good cooling around the memory it's likely to cause issues.

    just curious what you guys think whether fsb is more important or multi...guess part depends on what you'll use more, but i do alot of screen capture, encoding, gaming, etc and he believes firmly that if you had a choice between 100mhz on the fsb or 100mhz on the processor, fsb is by far more beneficial.

    Anyway, i'll keep you all posted of our progress (nice little side project, and i'm loving every minute of it)
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  8. #8
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Well, I can't necessarily disagree with you, because I have very little experience with modern Intel systems, but based off the myriad of benchmarks we ran today, and the countless ones I ran yesterday, I'd say, in my case, it is not true.

    They all point to the higher FSB as being better, even at this point when my CPU clock is lower (only able to get 3060mhz so far stable, whereas with multi + fsb tweaks, got 3107), yet processor benchs are better and memory is much higher (perhaps sandra not a great benchmarking tool, but only one I have access too, vantage only had a trial -- sandra at 3107 had memory scores of 8.18/8.20/8.18 [respectively top to bottom as displayed), and with the FSB overclocked, I get 9.54/9.48/9.53, just as an example).

    I'd definitely say that a raw processor overclock is safer than messing around with everything else. in the end, i'm not even sure i want to keep this overclock, which is 255mhz fsb@ 12x, because there were a ton of voltage increases just to make it stable.

    final config was 255mhz @ 12x @1020 (memory, 5/5/5/15/20).

    volage is horrible, had to up the vcore/nbvid (.50v both), southbridge .1v (stabilize the higher fsb), northbridge .2v, and the friggin ram 2.25v.

    Ram is a bit troublesome, and i'm monitoring it to make sure it's not going to explode, but online according to mushkin's forum, this ram can do 2.3v was no problem (has a failsafe to prevent more than that from going into it).

    it seemed for this overclock, every 3rd multiplier I'd need to increase the nb frequency or it would be unstable. i probably could have gone to the next setting, which would be 3190, but the 9x nb multiplier will not run and causes my bios to reset. dunno if there is some issue with me running that, or the mobo is just wonky. probably better off i can't run it because i'd have to raise the northbridge more to compensate and lord only know how high i can really push it before it decides to not turn on again.

    temps are fine though, full load is less than 42c, ram is not even warm to touch (good thing too), northbridge has a fan on it, so who knows, gigabyte sensor is fubared.

    in the end, i suppose it really doesn't matter, the way I see it is, any performance over what i originally paid for is good; i'm happy with over a 10% total system gain from stock settings.

    now onto my graphics card.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  9. #9
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Little update:

    first, i misread your post meridian, yeah processor would be better to just go balls to the wall, but i think in my case where it is the limiting factor, being able to achieve the same overall clock speed with a higher fsb is going to yield better performance. if i was sacrificing 300 mhz to get 20 on the fsb than no, it wouldn't be worth it.

    we've been in the process of fine tuning the pc and trying to push it even further, and I misread the memory voltage, thought it was 2.3 v, but we got the fsb to 270 @ 2.23 volts and in the process of priming it. actually typing this post on the pc for a bit extra test.

    since he can't increase the nb to a 9x multiplier he's locked in to overclocking via the fsb because he's trying to maintain that same ratio, which seems to be the trick. we were able to get it running at 3.2 ghz, just with 16x multi, 10x nb and it was encoding video and all but crashed after about 2 hours. tried different vcores and stuff but wasn't working.

    i do have a question, since my friend went to sleep finally -- i know the vcore is the processors voltage but what is the nb-vid core voltage, research shows it controls the onboard memory controller. if so, should that always be the same as the vcore or is it ok to leave it lower, and what would be the max safe one for an air cooled system, where full load, priming for 2+ hours looking at 44c max, core temp only shows 33c.

    used a thermonitor on the nb to see how the temps were, and it was only 33c even with the .2v increase, so was happy with that, memory too inserted the tem between the heat spreader and reporter at 37c (nice because the heatsink fan blows so much air down on the processor that it hits the memory and northbridge.)
    Last edited by ozzy983; 11-16-2009 at 06:02 PM.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  10. #10
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Lol, well time for an update.

    people probably read my last post and called the proper authorities and figured I had lost my mind. My friend left last night and imparted some knowledge with me, but i seemed to take that knowledge in the complete wrong direction.

    my friend stopped by tonight to see how things were going, and they really weren't going too well. he then looked at my bios and nearly crapped himself. he told me that i'd lost it, and I should here before I do any permanent damage.

    First thing he did was set the northbridge back to default, cpu vid and vcore. said the ram was fine at that voltage but would recommend trying to fine tune it later. then he increase multipler to 12.5x250 mhz, for 3125, unit bsod on bootup. long story short, increased vcore to 4.25v, cpuvid def, nb, def, sb to .1 (this was tested as lowest possible), then booted to windows.

    prime runs stable now, and unit does all i need to. he explained that i kept trying to increase the cpu-nb vid which controls the onboard memory controller and l3 cache, but this only needs to be increased if the ht link or nb is overclocked (though he said sometimes if the oc is high enough a slight increase can help stability).

    in the end, these new systems confuse me, and i should have done some better research. we're now testing pushing me to the next level, 3250, which he thinks is attainable, but worries my temps might be too high. currently at full load priming for 6 hours straight, cpu temp is 48c, cores 37-38. he said mainly to focus on the core temps, but use the cpu temp as a guide and not to exceed, at worst, 55c.

    we did have a chance to talk about the fsb vs cpu mhz, and he concurs that raw mhz is better to a certain point, but he said more people would get better performance were they taking that o/c and using an fsb and multi rather than just a multi. he also stressed how much an impact a northbridge overclock can have, even just 200 mhz, on the overall snappiness of the system.

    so, in the end, i was an idiot, and hopefully soon, i'll have some more good news.

    later,
    oz
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  11. #11
    Joined
    Jan 2002
    Location
    ca
    Posts
    389

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    reguarding overclocking via multi or HTT, and depending on what you use your rig for, overclocking via the multi with a minor tickle to the HTT, maybe 205 to 210, would be best.....

    where you will see massive performance increases is with the NB clocking, no matter the HTT.....I concentrate on the highest clock I can get using the x's only, run the ram @spec, then to achieve some blazing speed jumps I crank the NB up, present CPU allows 3000+ NB, but 2800 is the stable setting with 1.4v to the NB.....

    your rig will be a whole lot happier on a daily basis, save the massive tweaking for benches and internet pimping, you want your rig to be as reliable as possible for daily useage, yes? I use my main rig for business stuffs too, so I have to keep it real......my laptop is basically used as a TV only......

    i take this all back if you are running with more than one rig, use one for day to day and the other is ballz to the wall/gaming all the time

    laterzzzzz.............
    i'm here, there, everywhere.

    AsRock AOD790>Phenom II 965>Freezone + Eliminator + Dangergen....and a smidgen of clockage, 3.9gig exactly

  12. #12
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Central Virginia, USA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,302

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    If interested and want to compare here is one of my attempts to OC a 720........

    http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=462217

    For me it seems the BE's prefer the multi taken up and then "polished" with the fsb.

    Why F@H?? Click me!
    As of 07/28/11
    Oz1a v2.0 >> XFX MDA72P7509 750a, PI X2 8870BE, 2 x XFX GTS250, WD 250GB, F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK, Tt TR2 600W, XP Pro SP3

  13. #13
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by jedihobbit View Post
    If interested and want to compare here is one of my attempts to OC a 720........

    http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=462217

    For me it seems the BE's prefer the multi taken up and then "polished" with the fsb.
    Thanks. I'm so noob when it comes to this stuff, and it seems a tad more confusing than it used to be. Man, overclocking my Xp seemed so much easier.

    Still working out a few kinks, in fact, I dramatically reduced my FSB. Sitting about 225 now. Was a bit worried about running the memory at .30 volts above spec, and had no room for any more, so figured smarter idea was to back off. Motherboard was not allowing the NB multi to go any higher than 8 -- and I want to have that option available for polishing it off (from what I've seen and experimented with, upping the NB has some very nice results).
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  14. #14
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Central Virginia, USA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,302

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    ozzy be careful when overvolting your mem. Make sure there is suffecent air movement and personally have gain some fair OCs I mostly go just stock. Especially after frying my fav set of g. skill PC-6400!

    Know zip about Gig mobos so I let the users help ya there.

    Why F@H?? Click me!
    As of 07/28/11
    Oz1a v2.0 >> XFX MDA72P7509 750a, PI X2 8870BE, 2 x XFX GTS250, WD 250GB, F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK, Tt TR2 600W, XP Pro SP3

  15. #15
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Alright, here is my final system.

    Unfortunately, this system just doesn't work past 3.1ghz, and the issue seems to be related to the processors memory controller. With just a 15.5x multiplier, the system will boot windows and restart about 15 minutes into it. Regardless of what I'm doing. Changing the vcore has no effect at all (increases ranged from 1.350v to 1.42v) -- doesn't seem to need much, since it runs 3.050 ghz without any voltage increase.

    As a last ditch effort, i actually tried undervolting the CPU-NB voltage by .025 to .050, and that actually resulting in somewhat more stable system, but anything less than that, resulted in an unstable system. Trying to increase the NB voltage (was an idea of "making" up the voltage for the HT link) didn't go well. Even decreasing the ht/nb to 5x (1ghz each) didn't do anything.

    Bottom line, 3.1ghz is not attainable...I think this is so strange, because to me, there is either run at stock voltage, or nothing because it becomes unstable.

    The only thing it could be is the psu, it's not a great one, only 530 watts, but i can't justify buying a new one just for this. It will have to wait for my next system.

    Cooling on the processor was 40-42 full load, and when the memory controller undervolt, it peaked at 36c, lol. (Shows you how much heat that generates).

    So, in the end, i have to settle for 3.050 ghz, which is still slightly over 10% increase, so it's not horrible by any means. Increased FSB to 235 (final truly stable bus without having to pump .3v of power into the memory).

    Here's my little easier to read chart.

    speed: 3055 mhz
    fsb: 235
    multi: 13
    ht/nb: 2200 (+.050v to CPU-NB to stabilize)
    ram: 920 mhz (4/4/4/12/16/70ns/) (increased voltage to 2.025)

    in terms of performance, one very noticable increase was with sandra's memory bandwidth, showed nearly a 20% increase!

    Like I said, PSU could be holding me back, or it's the 700sb chipset. Neither is likely to change until i upgrade again, which based on my last system, may not be for another 3 years.

    Anyway, thank you all for your help, and now it's time to overclock the graphics card and call it a day.

    update 1:

    Had to drop the hypertransport back to 1.8ghz, seemed to be causing some stability issues. retesting with some prime.
    Last edited by ozzy983; 11-19-2009 at 04:31 PM.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

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