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  1. #61
    Joined
    Apr 2001
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    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Yeah, i think it's luck of the draw in more than one way; seems luck of the draw each time i reboot. system never seems to behave the same way twice.

    So, i decided this beta bios wasn't what i wanted, so i downflashed to a bios that doesn't even officially support my processor, lol.

    it works, of course, but I already notice that the northbridge is higher than previously; set at 1.2v, up from 1.1. sb is also higher at 1.3v, from 1.2.

    truthfully, doesn't make all that much difference, between revisions except a few features aren't configurable, like ganged/unganged mode.

    I don't really know what makes something stable or not, usually I consider it stable when it does what i want it too lol.

    gonna keep pluggin away at it, and yeah, the extra 10-20 mhz isn't important at all, and not noticeable under any circumstances, but if I can get another 75 to 100, then that'd be great.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  2. #62
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)



    K, so we're getting there, decided to up the FSB more, to what i thought was a stable config, but after starting memtest and falling asleep, I awoke to errors.

    So, I upped the memory voltage some more and got rid of the errors. Which, I'm thinking, might have been there from the get go.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  3. #63
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Central Virginia, USA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,302

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Whatever you're doing you're faster than I ever managed at that voltage!

    Why F@H?? Click me!
    As of 07/28/11
    Oz1a v2.0 >> XFX MDA72P7509 750a, PI X2 8870BE, 2 x XFX GTS250, WD 250GB, F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK, Tt TR2 600W, XP Pro SP3

  4. #64
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    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    I can actually get half stable @ 3.2ghz, with the ht dropped to 1ghz. Truthfully, I cannot even tell the difference between 1800 and 1000. 200 the system runs like garbage, but 1000 seems ok. Slight decrease in benches.

    Yeah, the voltage doesn't seem to be the issue, but rather the chipset. Seems to flake out. Like I said, had my friends 790x gigabyte board for a day to test, and got this thing to work well at 3.3, so I know the processor can handle it. I just wish I tried unlocking a core or two, because it can happen with the 7750 because it is, in essence, a phenom core.

    If that were the case, then I could def justify buying a new board, because it would act as a processor upgrade too.

    I also think that overclocking the fsb is the way to go on this processor, seems to respond better that way. Could be alot of issues, but the last thing I would expect from a black edition processor is a problem with a multiplier overclock. Unless, the rest of the system is throttling too badly to accommodate it.
    Last edited by ozzy983; 12-09-2009 at 02:25 AM.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  5. #65
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    K, did a little side experiment today, because I read last night that the kuma's are really sensitive to heat, as were the Phenom processors. So, I took my PC out to my garage, no heat, but has electricity, let it sit there for a bit on a table, and fired it up. Was able to run stable at 3.2 ghz, 16x200. So, I'm thinking it's about time I get me a new heatsink.

    The tornado does a wonderful job (44c @ full load @ 3.1), but need some more juice to hit 3.2. Need about 1.435-1.45v, unable to run it under 44c which seems to be the sweet spot for the processor.

    Another little test was 3075, on the stock cooler (duh) it wouldn't run @ 1.4v, would just reboot about 8 minutes into loading the os. Everytime, would run either 3dmark or occt. Temps were hot, about 57c. Lol I figured it woudln't work, but it mimics the same symptoms that it does @ 3.2.

    With it in the garage was able to sustain 1.55v (testing) @ 36c, now don't even know if water can really do that since the ambient temp outside was 35F. Short of a compressor, dunno, but not going to invest in water either way.

    Bottom line, I need a better cooler; was looking at this one by Thermaltake, 140mm fan, nice a big. Got good reviews and they were all running quad cores, figure it would definitely give me something for the future.

    Also was starting to think the psu was the culprit, but I tested with another system, which has a 430watt psu, basically just hooked the graphics card up to it, and powered it from the other system. DIdn't see any real difference at all.
    Last edited by ozzy983; 12-09-2009 at 02:30 PM.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  6. #66
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Central Virginia, USA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,302

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Forgot you had the jerry rigged cooling! Most definatly need good cpu cooling also make sure that there is residual airflow over the NB and power mosfets!

    Why F@H?? Click me!
    As of 07/28/11
    Oz1a v2.0 >> XFX MDA72P7509 750a, PI X2 8870BE, 2 x XFX GTS250, WD 250GB, F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK, Tt TR2 600W, XP Pro SP3

  7. #67
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by jedihobbit View Post
    Forgot you had the jerry rigged cooling! Most definatly need good cpu cooling also make sure that there is residual airflow over the NB and power mosfets!
    Yeah, was thinking of picking up one of those heatsinks for the mosfets. On this motherboard, they are made easy, because they are all in a nice little line. Some motherboards have them scattered all over the place.

    That is my issue with the jerry rigged cooling is I'm never 100% sure it's really working. With a better heatsink, I'm sure things be more under control.

    Couldn't hurt either, I had a SLK-800 I used for years and kept every CPU cool, so I figure need another one that I can just use CPU after CPU.

    Also, I should note, that I found an interesting website going into huge analysis of the Hyper Transport Link and its effects on the PC. I can't find it, or I'd post it, but it was a very interesting read.

    Basically, their results show that half the motherboards out there automatically default to the wrong HT speed, yet the motherboard works best when it is "in sync" with the memory.

    For, instance, I tested my system with 1800, my ddr 2 @ 800 mhz, ganged mode, yields about 6.5ish in sandra. Drop it to 800mhz ht, and scores shoot up to 8.3. They go on to say that just because a system or processor can run something, doesn't mean it's best in every situation.

    Unganged seems a lot less stable, but gives better synthetic benchs. With that enabled, I get 8.5ish in sandra, @ 800mhz ram and 1800 htl. @ 800mhz htl, I get 9.8ish in sandra. Too me, that was very interesting, lol.
    Last edited by ozzy983; 12-10-2009 at 12:58 AM.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  8. #68
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Well, I figured out the root of all my problems.

    The power supply just isn't good enough to power this system. I jerry rigged another contraption to power my GFX off another PSU, and bam, system works fine, 3dmark passes until the cows come home (looped for 2 hours).

    So, I need me a new one and was considering one from Corsair, they seemed to get very good reviews, expensive, but say they well worth the price.

    I think 750 watts should be enough, lol, but 530 (my current one) is not.

    Guess it makes sense in a way, only really freezes during heavy operation, and mainly only in 3d applications. I figure the gfx is atleast 100w draw at load, and processor with the overvolts is probably pushing another 80 or so.

    Not that 530 isn't enough, but I think it's efficiency is greatly reduced and that's causing the problem.

    Anyway, will get another one soon, hoping the egg will have a good deal.

    Any other psus you guys can recommend, possibly a bit cheaper than the 110 the corsair costs, but that are still good.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  9. #69
    Joined
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    10,610

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    I prefer SeaSonics,
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151084
    But Corsairs are excellent (many made by SeaSonic)

    I don't think you really need a 750 psu, a quality 650 will do you fine. That 530 is probably failing if it ever could do its rated output.


    "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."
    - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

  10. #70
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    26,285

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Good thread guys. I have not had an AMD in my desktop for some time(last one was my FX-55 ) but my wife is sporting an X2 250 in the SFF rig I used to build her desktop which is begging for some "tweaking"... when she is not around of course... A few things of note from reading the thread.

    A lot of you are using Prime95 for benchmarking and stability testing. Great tool, I use it myself. And I see a lot of you using speedfan and a few other proggies to measure temps. A couple of other tools I would suggest are

    HWinfo
    http://www.hwinfo.com/

    Hwinfo is great because for several reasons... but the sensor tab is what I find to be especially useful to verify voltages (see if your power supply is causing you issues with low rail V's real time) and it also tracks the Min. Max. temp recorded. Useful when you are Prime95 stress testing overnight to see how warm your rig got.

    and

    Realtemp
    http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp/

    Then you can use realtemp (which has a nice calibration for accuracy test that uses Prime95) to figure out exactly where you are at heat wise. When you see a particular core dropping out and realtemp is showing that core running 15~20c hotter than the others.. it's much easier to troubleshoot. It also tracks your CPU/GPU temps min & max.

    As far as heatsinks go. I'm still sold on downdraft models. My "outdated" Thermalright SI-128 still does as good a job as (if not better) than a lot of the new mongo tower coolers. Keeps my Q9550/3.6Ghz at about 30c and mid 50c under 100% load. And it keeps the air around the socket moving to boot. If your MOBO already has passive cooling on the MOFSET's and such(and even if not), a good downdraft is still your best option IMHO.

    Gl and keep up the good w3rk.
    -scoot
    Last edited by AMDScooter; 12-12-2009 at 06:11 PM.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  11. #71
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Central Virginia, USA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    5,302

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    .............
    As far as heatsinks go. I'm still sold on downdraft models. My "outdated" Thermalright SI-128 still does as good a job as (if not better) than a lot of the new mongo tower coolers. Keeps my Q0550/3.6Ghz at about 30c and mid 50c under 100% load. And it keeps the air around the socket moving to boot. If your MOBO already has passive cooling on the MOFSET's and such(and even if not), a good downdraft is still your best option IMHO.

    Gl and keep up the good w3rk.
    -scoot


    Because of the mATX builds all of mine are the "downdraft" variaty, all Zalmans.

    On the PSU front I agree with GM that a 650W would do you well. Part of your PSU problem could very well be the "half-truths" that wattages values can give. Example, in an earlier build I bought a 500W PSU primarily for bling, installed it and it was struggling big time. Turns it's +12v rail only equaled 14A, whereas the 400 I was going to replace it with has 2 x 20A rails!

    A 650W Corsair with free shipping and a $20.00 MIR equals $80.00 after all is said and done. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005

    For a real inexpense try after MIR would be this OCZ 700W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341019 and I've had good luck with their MIRs.

    Why F@H?? Click me!
    As of 07/28/11
    Oz1a v2.0 >> XFX MDA72P7509 750a, PI X2 8870BE, 2 x XFX GTS250, WD 250GB, F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK, Tt TR2 600W, XP Pro SP3

  12. #72
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    The PSU I have is rated 40A on the 12v rail, but the voltage is read through bios as 12.48v, which I think is actually too high, but drops off a bit during Occt PSU test (12.28v), 3.3v is also high, around 3.41.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  13. #73
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    26,285

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy983 View Post
    The PSU I have is rated 40A on the 12v rail, but the voltage is read through bios as 12.48v, which I think is actually too high, but drops off a bit during Occt PSU test (12.28v), 3.3v is also high, around 3.41.
    A minor over volt is preferable to undervolting any day of the week, especially when overclocking. I'd say your PS does not look like a suspect if it keeps to those numbers under load. I learned my lessons with cheap power supplies years ago and simply fork out the $$ for the good stuff on my and my wifes desktop rigs. Usually PCP&C or Antec have been my preferred choice for the last few years. Although I understand there are many other fine quality brands out now.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  14. #74
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    A minor over volt is preferable to undervolting any day of the week, especially when overclocking. I'd say your PS does not look like a suspect if it keeps to those numbers under load. I learned my lessons with cheap power supplies years ago and simply fork out the $$ for the good stuff on my and my wifes desktop rigs. Usually PCP&C or Antec have been my preferred choice for the last few years. Although I understand there are many other fine quality brands out now.
    Yeah, I agree, everything looks ok, considering I bought a rosewill keyboard recently and it works like crap. Shift key is poorly made and only has 1 spring to push it down, and I kinda type funny, pretty much all caps I make with the left hand, and sometimes I'm pressing it down, and nothing happens.

    I only use it for the BIOS anyway, since I use my wireless for normal operation.

    I have done a bit more investigative work since my post this morning, and noticed a few interesting things.

    First one is if I run @3.1 and set the affinity to 1 core it will pass all day long. As soon as I try and run 2 cores, it crashes on T4 (Deep freeze). My initial theory was power at that point, since running Prime, occt or linx, all of them run fine.

    Then I starting thinking that it's possible the gfx is having trouble keeping up with the overclock, but really 100mhz shouldn't be all that big.

    In the end, I think there is 1 possibility that sticks in my head and it was based around my Hyperpi test. While I understand that both cores probably don't run at exactly the same speed, the results were slightly different. Probably well within normal range.



    You'll notice from the image that one core is slightly slower than the other; happens to be core 0 and that could very well be because the os is "running" off that core. But, it lead me down the path that they are having problems keeping time, and it's this desync that is causing the system to crash.

    So, I figured it's possible that increasing the bandwidth to the PCI E bus could potentially help the problem. I'm not sure I'm 100% off with this either.

    I tried 105, 110, 115, 120 and nada, same issue just freezes on, oh the irony, the deep freeze test. As a last ditch effort, I tried 130mhz, and bam, it passes 3dmark. First time, with these settings that it worked.

    I do some research on increasing the PCI E bus, and get very vague replies, most of which sound illogical. Most complain that you can burn the GFX out, but I don't see how it's any different than increasing the HTT; only risk of damage comes with an increase in the voltage, which I have yet to do.

    My best guess is the motherboard is the real problem, and an upgrade would solve the issue completely, and rather than spend un-needed money on another PSU, when this one appears fine, might be best to invest in the 790/750 combo, at best, I get the added benefits of ACC.

    Will keep you guys posted on the latest developments.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  15. #75
    Joined
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    26

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Oz,

    First, like to say "hi", been following this thread for awhile now, after I stumbled across it on google. I'd recommend you check this website out:

    http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/45...0-oc-club.html

    In that post, it lists their forums overclock results with the 7750. As you'll see from it, the 770 chipsets are few and far between, and their results were less than stellar.

    However, there are a couple of things I'd recommend you do first, and then take it from there.

    First, I believe you vcore is way too low, most seen to be in the 1.45 range when running it @ 3.1. That voltage seems about right. Your symptoms with running prime/occt, and then the freezing in game, are usually corrected with a vcore increase. Try 1.45 - 1.475. Might fix the issue. Keep in the mind, this processor can handle up to 1.65 (not a typo, bios probably limits to 1.55, use overdrive to set it higher). Doesn't mean you should run it at that, but it can handle it. 24/7, air operation is ill advised at that voltage, unless you were running something like the Thermalright 120 and had great incase air flow.

    This processor is also heavily temp sensitive, burning above 50c will probably cause some BSODs and other oddities.

    Next thing you'll want to do is experiment with the NB/HT frequencies; most recommend to keep it close to stock (1800), but in some applications, a higher NB/HT can help stabilize the system. It prevents the processor from throttling. (good sign of this is errata errors in prime -- i.e. miscalculations). experiment with up to say 2200ish, and see if it is better, worse or indifferent (will rule it out as an issue).

    Also keep in mind you other system voltages and make sure you're not just increasing the memory voltage when you get errors in memtest, half the time that doesn't fix the real issue. Look at both the NB core and the CPU NB, especially if the HTT or NB has been increased. Speaking from experience, a small increase on either or both can save you a heap on memory voltage. Raise the memory last. For instance, running at 2000 probably needs no increase, but 2200 probably needs .025v on both nb & cpu nb.

    PCI E bus something does need to be increased, but never as high as you have it. 103, 105 or even maybe 107 can help throttling issues on some PC with cheaper motherboards. Most common symptom is nasty framerate reduction after the overclock.

    Personally, I'd be really, really surprised if you couldn't do 3.2ghz+ on that processor. Doing 3.0 on stock voltage (which is higher on the BE @ 1.325), stock for the non-be's was 1.275, shows that you have a good processor.

    Motherboard may hold you back later, but at this early stage, your biggest issue is voltage.

    Can't hurt to give it a try; assuming that any bus increases and all are stable prior, I really believe voltage is your limiting factor.

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