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  1. #76
    Joined
    Apr 2001
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    New Jersey
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    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Thanks for the reply, I gave what you said a try, and here is where things stand so far.



    As you can see, it works, but the voltage required is through the roof; 1.52v to me is high. I haven't tried lowering the multi back to 15.5x 200 to see if that helps this issue.

    Though, to date, this may be one of my best 3dmark scores.

    Update: Dude, I think you solved it, or atleast made it better, was able to just run a 2-pass loop with 3dmark which is something I've never been able to do over 3050 or so, thinking it def might be related to the voltage. Though, I always thought vcore issues resulted in bsods and hard resets.
    Last edited by ozzy983; 12-13-2009 at 09:19 AM.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  2. #77
    Joined
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    26

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy983 View Post
    Thanks for the reply, I gave what you said a try, and here is where things stand so far.



    As you can see, it works, but the voltage required is through the roof; 1.52v to me is high. I haven't tried lowering the multi back to 15.5x 200 to see if that helps this issue.

    Though, to date, this may be one of my best 3dmark scores.

    Update: Dude, I think you solved it, or atleast made it better, was able to just run a 2-pass loop with 3dmark which is something I've never been able to do over 3050 or so, thinking it def might be related to the voltage. Though, I always thought vcore issues resulted in bsods and hard resets.
    Geez, didn't expect you to blow the NB/HT out of the water, but glad it worked. I would suggest dropping it back to spec, and trying it @ 200 x 15.5. Might save you a bit of vcore. However, 1.52 is well within operating spec. Temps seem fine, but that is probably your idle, full load probably peak around 50 or so. Now, give prime/occt a shot, and see if temps factor in.

  3. #78
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    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratatat View Post
    Geez, didn't expect you to blow the NB/HT out of the water, but glad it worked. I would suggest dropping it back to spec, and trying it @ 200 x 15.5. Might save you a bit of vcore. However, 1.52 is well within operating spec. Temps seem fine, but that is probably your idle, full load probably peak around 50 or so. Now, give prime/occt a shot, and see if temps factor in.
    Yeah, I did try it with 200 x 15.5 @ 1.52v and it works the same -- in terms that it works now. Only thing is, system is noticeably faster with the NB/HT overclocked. Also, decreasing it seems to make no difference on the overclock. I am a bit concerned about the voltage though, but more or less, concerned with the temps.

    How hot should it be running, and when do you say, enough is enough?
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  4. #79
    Joined
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    26

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy983 View Post
    Yeah, I did try it with 200 x 15.5 @ 1.52v and it works the same -- in terms that it works now. Only thing is, system is noticeably faster with the NB/HT overclocked. Also, decreasing it seems to make no difference on the overclock. I am a bit concerned about the voltage though, but more or less, concerned with the temps.

    How hot should it be running, and when do you say, enough is enough?
    Was just reading though some of the backlog of posts and noticed you responded.

    Ok, so you know, on that motherboard, the processor requires 1.52v to run 3.1. That's a tad high, but considering the AMD 770/700 chipset combo isn't known for it's overclocking; I'd say it's a good start. Take also into consideration, that the phenom 1 processors were not good overclockers. This was AMDs sole purpose behind ACC, and all the features, whatever they are, of ACC have been integrated into the Phenom 2 processors.

    The voltage isn't everything, but even with watercooling, too much can burn the processor out because the circuitry is not designed to withstand so much force. 1.65 is the absolute max. Temps play a bigger part in stability up to that point. I noticed you have some contraption rigged for the heatsink's fan, which is good. However, the stock heatsink that comes with the 7750 is garbage. They made better ones for the Athlon XP, then they did for this one.

    Lowering your temps may free up some juice to be applied elsewhere, and keep in mind, the more voltage and the higher you run the processor, the lower the temps will need to be. So, the processor at stock voltage might run fine at 60C, but @ 3.1 it will not. You can try getting a better heatsink, will benefit you either way -- but i'd say @ 1.5v, 50c is the max, after that, processor is going to slow down and freeze/hang due to overheating.

    Also, the mosfets on the mainboard probably will need cooling, either a heatsink or direct active cooling will be required to shell 1.55v steady into the processor.

    Lastly, I think it's important to realize that YMMV with each processor and motherboard. 3.4 is attainable on most of the 790/750 chipset combos with the right voltage, but it may or may not be 100% stable. Just because there is a screenshot does not make it stable. As you've also noticed, increasing the NB/HT gives more overall performance increase, then the extra 100 mhz would on it's own. It's important to also get the maximum benefit from the entire system, not just the processor.
    Last edited by Ratatat; 12-13-2009 at 11:25 AM.

  5. #80
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    26,273

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    That's one adjustment where I hesitate (ya.. I've become a big OC'ing woos )any more... vcore and vdimm increases. I'm more wary of the vcore side as most good memory comes with a lifetime warranty no matter what V's you are tossing at it. And MOBO's manufacturers cannot tell how much voltage you were tossing at the chipset once the cmos is cleared. (ya... remove the battery for a few minutes before you pack it up and ship it back). So if you have some backup memory and motherboard laying around and can afford to wait for the RMA process to eventually make a replacement appear on your doorstep go ahead and beat your components up. Myself I always make sure to have an entire spare PC capable of running my favorite game of late with all my apps loaded and sync'd just in case anyway. Heck... most of the "faster" RAM is simply overclocked, binned, and factory overvolted slower stuff anyway. Any DDR2 running "stock" at 2.1v is already overclocked. Peel the heatspreader off and have a looksey for yourselves. Google the memory module specs. Most CPU's are in the "if ya burn it up... ya own a nice key chain trinket" category. I admittedly have a few of those laying about.

    In regard to Voltage increases. Of late, most of my OC adventures are with the V's set to auto. With the stock voltage OC's I'm getting I figure I'm just getting at some of the "free" overhead from improved manufacturing processes. And so far I've been very successful. 3.6 from a Q9550 and 3.75 from a E6300.

    I still vividly remember OC'ing 486DX-4's, Celly 300's and even Xeon processors if you were willing to risk possibly tossing that much $$ out the window. Fun times. Back in the day when I used to solder pots to MOBO's to get more voltage increases than even the BIOS offered, I was hooked on that magical Mhz where you could (if you were lucky)boot, get a cpuid screenie and perhaps make it through a few SANDRA benchmarks and get screenie there also if it was really your LUCKY day. Last time I was that adventurous was with the classic Athy's. Anyone else remember cracking open the Slot-A cases, installing the "golden finger" device, prehaps an "Artic cooler" heatsink directly do the CPU die, some ramsinks to the L2 and going to town on a MOBO equipped with the only northbridge available for AMD cpu's... which happened to also be made by AMD?? People used to think I was crazy when I'd get my hands on a brand new CPU (from a vendor whom was guaranteeing shipping particular steppings of course) and using a screwdriver to crack the cases open. Heck I was the first person I knew to own a Ghz processor:



    And the things I did to that poor Classic Athy to get that screenie were not nice... or the kind of thing that promotes long life outta them. Lowering the MHZ and raising the vcore to the ceiling, running it overnight at 100% load to "burn it in" prior to "really" overclocking the poor thing in front of a 3400BTU air conditioning unit. I still have ^^ that CPU and MOBO on a shelf in the garage BTW. Waterblocks on everything... pelts and phase change... those were the days.

    Anyway... now that I've had my nice Sunday morning.. too much coffee induced rant and trip down memory lane all about me. Let's get back to your adventures.

    I'd usually recommend keeping the Vcore within .10 of the stated max. And definitely as Ratatat recommends, only if the temps stay within reason. The extra few CPU Mhz are usually not worth the risk especially when NB/HT adjustments offer more performance benefits than a few extra CPU Mhz.

    If you are simply pushing for the max CPU Mhz have fun with the V's (within reason!) and watch those temps!

    GL..
    -scoot
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  6. #81
    Joined
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    26

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Yeah, Oz, I just want to clarify that I was in no way implying you should try 1.55 or 1.65. It was just to show that there is some room to play with. Personally, you should be OK with 1.45, but my guess is your chipset is limiting that. You also might have a temp wall and the added resistance from the increased voltage (through your increased temps) is requiring you to push more through to overcome that hurdle.

    Your best bet is to step back to a safe setting, where your under 50 C for a prolonged load, and wait until you have a better, more solid cooling solution in hand.

    Increasing the Vcore through the roof is one sure way to send your processor to an early grave, and I, nor anyone else here, wants to see that.

    Slow down, and during the downtime work on tweaking your other components. Ram & GFX come to mind, and again, they can offer more performance than a few extra mhz.

  7. #82
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
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    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Yup, this overclocking endeavor is on hold until I get better cooling. So far, at 3.1ghz, even, I can do 1.52V, it's stable, runs prime, linx and 3dmark.

    I can get it to about 3.150 but I need to jack the vcore to 1.55v, and I'm not too happy with that. I'd rather wait to experiment further until I get my new cooler. It's possible that having cooler temps might allow for less voltage.

    Gonna work now on tweaking the system even further through ram timings and the gfx card. Right now, running the HT/NB @ 2300 mhz with minimal voltage (.050v to NB and CPU-NB).

    Happy with that atm, sandra shows memory bandwidth to be running about 9.6, which is higher than the stock 8.1 with my memory running @ 4-4-4-12. Running it now at 5-5-5-18.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  8. #83
    Joined
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    26

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy983 View Post
    Yup, this overclocking endeavor is on hold until I get better cooling. So far, at 3.1ghz, even, I can do 1.52V, it's stable, runs prime, linx and 3dmark.

    I can get it to about 3.150 but I need to jack the vcore to 1.55v, and I'm not too happy with that. I'd rather wait to experiment further until I get my new cooler. It's possible that having cooler temps might allow for less voltage.

    Gonna work now on tweaking the system even further through ram timings and the gfx card. Right now, running the HT/NB @ 2300 mhz with minimal voltage (.050v to NB and CPU-NB).

    Happy with that atm, sandra shows memory bandwidth to be running about 9.6, which is higher than the stock 8.1 with my memory running @ 4-4-4-12. Running it now at 5-5-5-18.
    Oz, change your ram timings from 5-5-5-18 to 5-5-5-15-20. This puts them in-sync and will yield better performance and stability. Test it out with memtest or linx, both should show problems sooner with 18-24, rather than with 15-20.

    Other than that, you could also try pushing your HTT a bit higher. Your ram seems to have very high tension, which is good, and will allow for better overclocks.

    Have you tried running 2400 or 2600 for the HT/NB. Based off research at overclockers, it shows that NB @ 2600 gives the best overall throughput.

    http://www.overclockers.com/the-impo...the-phenom-ii/

    You might need to overclock the FSB to hit 2400 though, because the 800mhz ram may slow you down and/or cause some bottlenecking.

    Hope it works out and keep us posted.

  9. #84
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Yeah, I can get the HT/NB up to 2300 mhz without a problem. Anymore than that, and I need a lot of voltage on both the ram and the CPUNB to stabilize. Realistically, I'd rather not push the CPUNB until I get my better cooler.

    However,


    So far, that is the highest I can get too without risking it -- but, I'm not going to run it at that, because that is insane. Especially with temps idling at 40C.
    Patience.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  10. #85
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    26,273

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy983 View Post
    Yup, this overclocking endeavor is on hold until I get better cooling. So far, at 3.1ghz, even, I can do 1.52V, it's stable, runs prime, linx and 3dmark.

    I can get it to about 3.150 but I need to jack the vcore to 1.55v, and I'm not too happy with that. I'd rather wait to experiment further until I get my new cooler. It's possible that having cooler temps might allow for less voltage.

    Gonna work now on tweaking the system even further through ram timings and the gfx card. Right now, running the HT/NB @ 2300 mhz with minimal voltage (.050v to NB and CPU-NB).

    Happy with that atm, sandra shows memory bandwidth to be running about 9.6, which is higher than the stock 8.1 with my memory running @ 4-4-4-12. Running it now at 5-5-5-18.
    I'm not sure about the new Athy chips... but some of the older ones simply "topped out" despite extreme cooling at any Vcore. My FX-55 topped out at 3.1Ghz or so no matter what I bumped the V's to. And it was running in the vicinity of -23c or so in my phase change setup with waterblocks on the MOBO NB/GPU and heatsinks on all the other power delivery components with good case airflow.

    3.1Ghz is a good OC speed for your chip IMHO with that memory bandwidth. If I were you I'd be perfectly happy with those stats even if you got no further at all.

    My2c.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  11. #86
    Joined
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    26

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    I'm not sure about the new Athy chips... but some of the older ones simply "topped out" despite extreme cooling at any Vcore. My FX-55 topped out at 3.1Ghz or so no matter what I bumped the V's to. And it was running in the vicinity of -23c or so in my phase change setup with waterblocks on the MOBO NB/GPU and heatsinks on all the other power delivery components with good case airflow.

    3.1Ghz is a good OC speed for your chip IMHO with that memory bandwidth. If I were you I'd be perfectly happy with those stats even if you got no further at all.

    My2c.
    True enough, and I'm pretty sure he's pushing the limits to his processor on that motherboard. If he has ACC function, at best, he'd be able to push 150 or so more out of it. On the 770, he'd really be lucky to hit 3.2 and stabilize it. He'll probably need to push close to 1.6v to get it stable, and that is over what AMD says is safe.

    Kuma was what when you bought it Oz, $60? I'd say, for that price, you got your money out of it. 3 GHZ on stock is impressive, and personally, that's where I'd run it. Yes, you can eek a bit more of it, but at what cost?

    At this point, I'd stay, stick to 3 GHZ, run the NB/HT up, o/c the graphics a bit, tighten the ram, and be done with it. Obviously, we can't stop you, and you can give it a shot. I suppose getting a new HS to keep it cooler wouldn't be a bad idea, but...I think your at the limits for the board and the processor, unless you do something radical.

  12. #87
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Central Virginia, USA
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    71
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    5,302

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    I'm very much in agreement with Ratatat! You've done a great job with the stock cooler and think 3.0MHz would be a nice 24/7 run setting (especially after you get the new cooler).

    For the S & Gs department when you get the aftermarket cooler you could try some suicide runs for "bragging rights" as I did with mine, but in the end I backed it down to something like 2.95 and lower vcore.

    Why F@H?? Click me!
    As of 07/28/11
    Oz1a v2.0 >> XFX MDA72P7509 750a, PI X2 8870BE, 2 x XFX GTS250, WD 250GB, F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK, Tt TR2 600W, XP Pro SP3

  13. #88
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    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
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    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by jedihobbit View Post
    I'm very much in agreement with Ratatat! You've done a great job with the stock cooler and think 3.0MHz would be a nice 24/7 run setting (especially after you get the new cooler).

    For the S & Gs department when you get the aftermarket cooler you could try some suicide runs for "bragging rights" as I did with mine, but in the end I backed it down to something like 2.95 and lower vcore.
    Yup. Beyond 3.0ghz is where the voltage goes through the roof. I can run 3.0 ghz stable @ 1.275 and the CPU NB tuned down to 1.1V.

    CPU then idles at 28C, and the NB temps drop to about 35C when the CPUNB is set so low. Haven't figured out why it's so high by default, but that is what it supposed to be. The NB core is set at 1.1v.



    That is my 24/7 config atm until I get a better cooler. Either way, I'll be glad to get rid of this loud tornado, but really do like the processor running cool.

    Tried 2400 HT/NB, actually 2310 is a problem, but it just gives all sorts of errors, regardless of voltage or timings.

    I could decrease the HTT a bit, and get a slightly faster processor, maybe up to 3030 or so without it being a pain, but think the system runs faster with the increases to the ram.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

  14. #89
    Joined
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    26

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ozzy983 View Post
    Yup. Beyond 3.0ghz is where the voltage goes through the roof. I can run 3.0 ghz stable @ 1.275 and the CPU NB tuned down to 1.1V.

    CPU then idles at 28C, and the NB temps drop to about 35C when the CPUNB is set so low. Haven't figured out why it's so high by default, but that is what it supposed to be. The NB core is set at 1.1v.



    That is my 24/7 config atm until I get a better cooler. Either way, I'll be glad to get rid of this loud tornado, but really do like the processor running cool.

    Tried 2400 HT/NB, actually 2310 is a problem, but it just gives all sorts of errors, regardless of voltage or timings.

    I could decrease the HTT a bit, and get a slightly faster processor, maybe up to 3030 or so without it being a pain, but think the system runs faster with the increases to the ram.
    See...nice and balanced system. In regards to the HTL/NBF, it's probably at the limit. Remember, the Kuma is only 1800, so you have it near 500mhz over stock! That's good. I suggested trying 2400 or 2600 because they are the sweet spots, and some motherboards can handle them. Apparently, the 770 or the SB700 are not two chipsets that can.

    60 more mhz on the cpu? Bah, the increase provided by the HTT in this case is better. If my math is right, next multi puts you at your previous 3091. 1.52v for that. Not worth it man, but try it with the new cooler. I have had situations where system freezes are resolved by cooling the chip more. As I said before, it can happen. The chip needs about 1.42-1.475 in most MBs to get to 3.1, but it's possible your chip runs too hot, and as such, is creating a larger than normal amount of resistance. That resistance is what causes heat, and will require more voltage to get the proper amount.

    This is why liquid cooling works at higher voltages, but even still, running more than 1.55 for 24/7 use would probably not be advised unless you can keep load under 40C.

    Anyway, maybe, as you said much earlier in the post, santa will drop off a new motherboard. Some nice deals on the 790/750 combo right now, and one of those might give you a whole 'nother overclocking adventure.

  15. #90
    Joined
    Apr 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    7,606

    Re: I overclocked, now what? :)

    Well, against my better judgement, I decided to upgrade my motherboard. It's ok though, because my brother is looking to build a new system, and figured he could use this one.

    Ended up with the Gigabyte MA-GA790X, based off the 790/750 chipset combo.

    Also purchased the Xigamatek (sp) "dark knight" heatsink with 120mm fan, and a tube of as5.

    When I get new motherboard, gonna start a new thread with the overclocking results.
    Rig:

    Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma @ 3360 Ghz @ 1.475V (14.5x223)
    (NB: 2240, HT: 2015)
    Gigabyte MA-790X-UD4P
    Sparkle GeForce 9800 GTX+ (755core, 1350 mem)
    Onboard sound (yuck)
    4GBs Mushkin DDR800 (6/6/6/18/24 @ 928mhz)
    2x74GBs RAID 0
    2xWD 1TB HD RAID 1
    Plexter DVD Burner
    Rosewill 530W

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