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  1. #16
    Joined
    Oct 2009
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    14

    Re: Scary temperatures on i7 920

    Quote Originally Posted by JSLEnterprises View Post
    75 is too high for the Lynnfield. Im pretty sure its throttling down or going into C1E halt state and bsod'ing on you.
    since its thermal properties is a max of 72.7 degrees C!

    Its stable up to about 68-69, If its going above that and hitting its max drop the multiplier by 1x
    I suppose that would be true if it wasn't disabled in the bios. As for stability and BSODing this machine has been rock solid since I zeroed in on how far I could push the CPU.

  2. #17
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    Re: Scary temperatures on i7 920

    Quote Originally Posted by JSLEnterprises View Post
    75 is too high for the Lynnfield. Im pretty sure its throttling down or going into C1E halt state and bsod'ing on you.
    since its thermal properties is a max of 72.7 degrees C!

    Its stable up to about 68-69, If its going above that and hitting its max drop the multiplier by 1x
    75 is not too high for Lynnfield. The thermal specification set by intel that you linked is measured at the center topside of the IHS. This is going to be cooler than the Core Temp read by the popular programs.

    The T-Junction max of 100c is where the CPU begins to throttle. At ~125c it will completely halt to prevent damage.

    Information on this can be found here:
    Thermal Specification: http://processorfinder.intel.com/Glossary.aspx

    Thermal Trip: The processor protects itself from catastrophic overheating by use of an internal thermal sensor. This sensor is set well above the normal operating temperature to ensure that there are no false trips. The processor will stop all execution when the junction temperature exceeds approximately 125 C. This is signaled to the system by the THERMTRIP# pin.
    http://download.intel.com/design/pro...hts/322164.pdf


    You really want to give yourself 15-20 degrees headroom from the TJ max when overclocking the i7 cpu's. Anything below 80c is golden.


  3. #18
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    827

    Re: Scary temperatures on i7 920

    Quote Originally Posted by StillFunkyB View Post
    75 is not too high for Lynnfield. The thermal specification set by intel that you linked is measured at the center topside of the IHS. This is going to be cooler than the Core Temp read by the popular programs.

    The T-Junction max of 100c is where the CPU begins to throttle. At ~125c it will completely halt to prevent damage.

    Information on this can be found here:
    Thermal Specification: http://processorfinder.intel.com/Glossary.aspx

    Thermal Trip: The processor protects itself from catastrophic overheating by use of an internal thermal sensor. This sensor is set well above the normal operating temperature to ensure that there are no false trips. The processor will stop all execution when the junction temperature exceeds approximately 125 C. This is signaled to the system by the THERMTRIP# pin.
    http://download.intel.com/design/pro...hts/322164.pdf

    You really want to give yourself 15-20 degrees headroom from the TJ max when overclocking the i7 cpu's. Anything below 80c is golden.
    The Tcase (which is what i linked to originally) is very viable, its a mean of all core temps.
    the T-Junction max of the lynnfields is ~78 deg C.
    The specified overtemp is still 95/100 respecively, its for a single core not all cores to maintain that overtemp. The survival rate of the processor trying to maintain the overtemp across all cores or even a single core is about the same as if a person is exposed to 4-6 Sv of radiation (which is a fatality within 72 hours). The overtemp is only set to adjust for spikes in workload which respectively cause spikes in temperature on the respective core and as you said not to cause a 'false trip', but again, the only reason its set so high is for there not to be the false trip.
    I would say that anything below 75 deg C (T-Junction)/70 deg C (Tcase) is golden, rather than your 80 deg C. However in the case of your bloomfield, i'll agree with you

    For people that are reading and feel like the discussion has gone above their heads....
    Quote Originally Posted by CompuTronix @ Tom's Hardware, as he said it best
    From the Core i7 and Core 2 Temperature Guide found at Tom's Hardware...

    "Section 1: Introduction

    Core i and Core 2 processors have 2 different types of temperature sensors; a CPU case (not computer case) Thermal Diode centered under the Cores, and Digital Thermal Sensors located on each Core. The case Thermal Diode measures Tcase (Temperature case), which is CPU temperature, and the Digital Thermal Sensors measure Tjunction (Temperature junction), which is Core temperature. Since these sensors measure 2 distinct thermal levels, there is a 5c temperature difference between them, which is Tcase to Tjunction Gradient. Core i7’s / i5’s and Core 2 Quad’s have 1 Tcase and 4 Tjunction sensors, while Core 2 Duo's have 1 Tcase and 2 Tjunction sensors ...

    ... The monitoring utilities provided by motherboard manufacturers monitor CPU temperature, while some popular freeware utilities monitor Core temperatures ... Real Temp ... is recommended for users interested in monitoring Core temperatures only ... SpeedFan monitors Tcase (CPU temperature) and Tjunction (Core temperature) ... "


    The Thermal Specification shown in Intel's Processor Spec Finder is Tcase Max (CPU) not Tjunction (Core), which is a very common misconception among most enthusiasts. Since there's a 5c gradient between the CPU sensor and the Core sensors, (shown in the following Intel document) - http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0709/0709.1861.pdf - just add 5c to the value shown in the Spec Finder to determine the corresponding Core temperature, which is 78c for all Core i7 8xx variants.

    Intel's second and frequently misunderstood Thermal Specification, Tjunction Max, (100c for all Core i7 8xx variants) applies to overtemp protection such as Throttle and Shutdown, so you don't toast your transistors. As such, any i7 8xx Core temperatures which exceed 78c should be considered "overtemp". Further, when specifications are exceeded, then processor degradation becomes a concern, which is explained in the following AnandTech article - http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/i [...] i=3251&p=6

    Prime95 Small FFT's is the Standard for processor thermal testing, because it's a steady-state 100% workload which yields steady-state temperatures, whereas Blend is a memory cyclic workload which yields fluctuating processor temperatures. Small FFT's will reach 97% thermal saturation within 7 to 8 minutes, so a 10 minute test is adequate. Thermal testing should be conducted as close as possible to 22c (72f) Standard ambient, with case covers removed, the computer clear of any desk enclosures, and all fans at 100% RPM to eliminate cooling variables, and to produce consistent and repeatable results for comparisons. If the Gradient between CPU temperature and "mean" (average) Core temperature is not ~ 5c, then BIOS is incorrectly coded. CPU temperature and Core temperatures can be individually calibrated in SpeedFan by following the Calibrations Section in the Temperature Guide.

    OCCT and Burn Test (reminiscent of TAT) use LinPack, which shows thermal signatures that resemble the ups and downs of a bad day on the stock market, and cycle between light workloads, through test segments which spray all processor registers with all one's, (100% thermal load is equal to 115% workload), and can push an overclocked i7 8xx with HT enabled at Vcore Max 1.400, right on past Tcase Max to ring the Tjunction Max bell like a fire alarm!

    Since there are very few applications or games that will spike, let alone sustain processor workloads beyond 70% to 85%, utilities which load all registers with all one's are not representative of real-world computing. While these utilities are certainly very useful for stability testing, they are inappropriate for thermal testing. The 3DMark benches are excellent for stability testing, as are applications for ripping and encoding.

    To make sense of CPU temperature and Core temperature, compare them to a 4 cylinder car with 5 temperature guages; 4 of the guages are cyclinder head temperatures (closest to the heat source), and the 5th guage is the overall engine temperature, which is 5c lower than the other guages, and is the temperature guage with which we're all familiar. We know the red zone (hot) for the i7 8xx starts at 73c (Tcase Max) on the engine temp guage and 78c (Tjunction) on the cylinder head temp guages, but if we push the engine too hard and peg all the guages, (95c Tcase overtemp / 100c Tjunction Max) then the engine will shut down.
    Last edited by JSLEnterprises; 05-20-2010 at 03:20 PM.
    ..::J.S.L::..


    Email: jsl@jslenterprises.net

  4. #19
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    Re: Scary temperatures on i7 920

    Where do you see ~78c for throttle?

    The 72.7 is the Tcase max, which is the CPU temp. taken from the center topside of the IHS.

    Everything that I seem to be looking at and reading is saying a Tjunction (core) max of 100c where the CPU will throttle, and complete shutdown occurs @ ~125c which is the THERMALTRIP#

    Tcase & Tjunction are not one in the same.


  5. #20
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    Re: Scary temperatures on i7 920

    Quote Originally Posted by StillFunkyB View Post
    Where do you see ~78c for throttle?

    The 72.7 is the Tcase max, which is the CPU temp. taken from the center topside of the IHS.

    Everything that I seem to be looking at and reading is saying a Tjunction (core) max of 100c where the CPU will throttle, and complete shutdown occurs @ ~125c which is the THERMALTRIP#

    Tcase & Tjunction are not one in the same.
    Please do a prime 95 test on an 860 with real temp running and look at the temps on the core that errors first (which will be a clear indication of the cpu begining to throttle though no settings remain at auto) while running oc'ed to actually reach the respective temps aforementioned. The complete shutdown occurs at ~100 (even though on paper its posted as 100), not ~125. It is not Tjunction max, the max is when self preservation begins and throtling occurs if all setings are automatically controled.

    I just tempted to destroy my 860 to see what the temps were. Set the fan attached to the H-50's Radiator running at 35% (1050rpm) so as to reach thermal maxes faster. Set voltages manually, 1.375, 1.35, 1.325 for the different tested speeds, ram manually set to jedec specs for 1333MHz, 9-9-9-24 v1.5, IMC v1.15 (there's more manual settings, but im not going to continue to post them as they are not changing on all 3 run tests, and are the same oc settings used by everyone and their mother that oc's the 750, 860, and 870)

    4.2GHz, highest temp hit 96 deg c on core 2 (just before it completely shut off without an error screen or even a lockup, just an instant off), 5 of the 8 threads errored out, 2 threads that were running on core 1, two on core 3, one on core 2, and one on core 4, the errors occured at 79,82, 86 and 85 degrees C respectively.

    re-ran testing at 4.01(my default), and 3.8GHz (200x20, 200x19)
    at 4.01, one error thread 2 for core 1, highest temp 78 deg C on core 1. temps over all cores ranged between 72 & 78
    at 3.8, no errors, highest temp on core 2 recorded at 74 deg C, max temps of all cores between 68 & 74.

    Final control test as stock speeds, all settings set to auto, and ram was set at auto (1333), EVERYTHING auto. Rad fan powered down to 0%.
    Throttling occured at around ~79 (varied between 76 and 79), errors occured at 82 to 85 degrees, and shutdown occured when core 3 hit 98 degrees.


    Tcase is not the same as Tjunction. Nowhere once did I say they were.

    I've seen bloomfields run strong into the lower 90's, have yet to see one lynnfield do the same. A close friend and coworker of mine also did the same testing as i did with the same settings, and his results were very similar to mine. (I made him a deal that i'd buy him a new processor if it 'broke')
    Last edited by JSLEnterprises; 05-21-2010 at 12:14 AM.
    ..::J.S.L::..


    Email: jsl@jslenterprises.net

  6. #21
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    Re: Scary temperatures on i7 920

    Quote Originally Posted by JSLEnterprises View Post
    And also No $hit that Tcase is not the same as Tjunction. Nowhere once did I say they were.
    No need to get chippy. I wasn't arguing with you, but more trying to understand where you were getting your information. What I was reading didn't show that.

    Had you posted the link/quote to the Tom's article originally, instead of editing it in later, I would have seen that.


  7. #22
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    Re: Scary temperatures on i7 920

    Quote Originally Posted by StillFunkyB View Post
    No need to get chippy. I wasn't arguing with you, but more trying to understand where you were getting your information. What I was reading didn't show that.

    Had you posted the link/quote to the Tom's article originally, instead of editing it in later, I would have seen that.
    http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/267871-28-load

    sorry about getting chippy, I took it the wrong way, thats why I edited it, but the way you worded it can be taken as an indirect "you're dumb" if you read it to yourself as a 3rd person. Its about 27 degree's here and I dont have my ac up yet, came home from work to a very warm house so my fuse is short today.
    Last edited by JSLEnterprises; 05-21-2010 at 12:17 AM.
    ..::J.S.L::..


    Email: jsl@jslenterprises.net

  8. #23
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    Re: Scary temperatures on i7 920

    Yeah, I just thought maybe you were thinking that Tcase and Tjunction were the same thing.

    Until I noticed the Tom's article, I couldn't find a clear cut answer on the TJ max, but tons of forums posts where people were saying it's 100 like a lot of Intel's chips.

    That's good to know now though.

    So what exactly shuts down the CPU if the THERMALTRIP command doesn't execute until around 125c?


  9. #24
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    Re: Scary temperatures on i7 920

    Quote Originally Posted by StillFunkyB View Post
    Yeah, I just thought maybe you were thinking that Tcase and Tjunction were the same thing.

    Until I noticed the Tom's article, I couldn't find a clear cut answer on the TJ max, but tons of forums posts where people were saying it's 100 like a lot of Intel's chips.

    That's good to know now though.

    So what exactly shuts down the CPU if the THERMALTRIP command doesn't execute until around 125c?
    I honestly couldnt tell you, since intel likes to keep detailed specs like that all hush hush and its not in any of the white papers. I know that thermaltrip is 125 on the last iterations of the core 2 duo's, and the bloomfields, but with the pcix controller being on die for the lynnfields may have something to do with it. Maybe it causes a critical fault which forces it to shut off, or the termaltrip command was set at 100 for the lynnfields because of that fact. But thats just my speculation as a possible reason.
    ..::J.S.L::..


    Email: jsl@jslenterprises.net

  10. #25
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    Re: Scary temperatures on i7 920

    Well, I am getting a high load temp of 74c on my i7 920. 20x200 with vcore and qpi @ 1.23

    That's after 8 hours of Prime95 small fft's. I also did 10 runs of IBT on max with a high temp of 76c. All stable.

    Going to try a run @ 1.2 tonight. Apparently there are quite a few i7's out there that will do 20x200 @ or below 1.2v

    Nice! Best CPU I have ever owned.


  11. #26
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    Re: Scary temperatures on i7 920

    To the OP, sorry for the sidetrack in your thread.

    Have you figured out your temp issue? My thoughts are that your airflow might really just be that bad. What kind of cold air intake do you have? I know the Sonata's have that HDD cage in the front, so I am not sure how it gets cold air into the case. You can see my temps above, and that's with a CM690 with 3 intake fans, 3 exhaust fans, and another fan on the H50 for push/pull.


  12. #27
    Joined
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    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
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    1,779

    Re: Scary temperatures on i7 920

    fxscreamer.

    Here is how I have my P6T set up. I have a couple of different variations of the P6T and it works on all of them.

    The only thing you might have different is the RAM settings.

    ASUS P6T DELUXE V2 Template 920 4GHz DDR3 1600 7-7-7-20



    JumperFree Configuration Settings
    AI Overclock tuner: MANUAL
    CPU Ratio Setting: 20x
    Intel (R) SpeedStep (TM) Tech: DISABLED
    Intel (R) Turbo Mode Tech: DISABLED
    BLCK Frequency: 200
    PCIE Frequency: 100
    DRAM Frequency: 1600
    UCLK Frequency: (AUTO SHOULD WORK) **
    QPI Link Data Rate: (AUTO SHOULD WORK) **

    ** If improper NB in CPUz (3200), set the following:

    UCLK Frequency: 3200Mhz
    QPI Link Data Rate: NOTE: AUTO usually works fine however higher is faster but it may also be unstable.. find stable highest setting or leave on AUTO


    DRAM Timing Control:


    ==============================
    NOTE: CHART FOR MEMORY SETTINGS in CPUz to BIOS:

    CPUz VALUE - BIOS LIST = VALUE

    CAS# Latency (CL) - DRAM CAS# LATENCY = 7
    RAS# to CAS# Delay (tRCD) - DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay = 7
    RAS# Precharge (tRP) - DRAM RAS# PRE TIME = 7
    Cycle Time (tRAS) - DRAM RAS# ACT TIME=24
    ===========================


    1st Information :

    CAS# Latency: 7
    DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay: 7
    DRAM RAS# PRE Time: 7
    DRAM RAS# ACT Time: 20
    DRAM RAS# to RAS# Delay: AUTO
    DRAM REF Cycle Time: AUTO
    DRAM Write Recovery Time: AUTO
    DRAM Read to Precharge Time: AUTO
    DRAM FOUR ACT WIN Time: AUTO
    DRAM Back-To-Back CAS# Delay: AUTO

    2nd Information :

    DRAM Timing Mode: 1N (same as CMD 1T in CPUz)
    DRAM Round Trip Latency on CHA: AUTO
    DRAM Round Trip Latency on CHB: AUTO
    DRAM Round Trip Latency on CHC: AUTO

    3rd Information :

    DRAM WRITE To READ Delay (DD): AUTO
    DRAM WRITE To READ Delay (DR): AUTO
    DRAM WRITE To READ Delay (SR): AUTO
    DRAM READ To WRITE Delay (DD): AUTO
    DRAM READ To WRITE Delay (DR): AUTO
    DRAM READ To WRITE Delay (SR): AUTO
    DRAM READ To READ Delay (DD): AUTO
    DRAM READ To READ Delay (DR): AUTO
    DRAM READ To READ Delay (SR): AUTO
    DRAM WRITE To WRITE Delay (DD): AUTO
    DRAM WRITE To WRITE Delay (DR): AUTO
    DRAM WRITE To WRITE Delay (SR): AUTO

    CPU Voltage: FIND LOWEST STABLE VALUE - 4GHz typically 1.35-1.42v
    CPU PLL Voltage: AUTO (there are stability settings for high clocks)
    QPI/DRAM Core Voltage: 1.35-1.40
    IOH Voltage: AUTO
    IOH PCIE Voltage: AUTO
    ICH Voltage: AUTO
    ICH PCIE Voltage: AUTO
    DRAM Bus Voltage: 1.65 to 1.70 MAX - Typically 1.66
    DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA: AUTO
    DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHA: AUTO
    DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB: AUTO
    DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHB: AUTO
    DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHC: AUTO
    DRAM DATA REF Voltage on CHC: AUTO


    Load Line Calibration: ENABLED
    CPU Differential Amplitude: AUTO (note: .800mv may stabilize higher clock)
    CPU Clock Skew: AUTO (100ps if used to stablize clock)
    CPU Spread Spectrum: DISABLED
    IOH Clock Skew : AUTO (100ps if used to stablize clock)
    PCIE Spread Spectrum: DISABLED


    Advance CPU Settings
    CPU Ratio Setting: 20x
    C1E Suppport: DISABLED
    Hardware Prefetcher: ENABLED
    Adjacent Cache Line Prefetch: ENABLED
    Intel® Virtualization Tech: DISABLED
    CPU TM Function: (ENABLED = PROTECTED - DISABLED = ALLOW FULL FUNCTION WITHOUT PROTECTION) Typically DISABLED
    Execute Disable Bit: DISABLED
    Intel (R) HT Techology: DISABLED (ENABLED FOR APPLICATIONS THAT USE HYPERTHREAD -WILL HEAT PROC)
    Active Processor Cores: ALL
    A20M: DISABLE
    Intel (R) SpeedStep (TM) Tech: DISABLED
    Intel (R) Turbo Mode Tech: DISABLED
    Intel (R) C-STATE Tech: DISABLED
    Asus M8Z77-V Deluxe
    Intel 3770K
    G-Skill 1600 16G
    Corsair H100
    EVGA 670 GTX
    2 Corsair Force 3 120G (Raid 0)
    2 x Seagate 1T 6G
    2 Samsung SyncMaster T260HD Monitors
    Thermaltake Level 10 UGK
    Silverstone Olympia OP1000 1000W
    Windows 8

    Never argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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