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  1. #1
    sttubs is offline Always learning something
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    Web censorship - we all need to be very concerned about this!


  2. #2
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    Re: Web censorship - we all need to be very concerned about this!

    "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  3. #3
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    Re: Web censorship - we all need to be very concerned about this!

    Woah! That's a very bad idea to pass this bill. They don't have to actually prove there's a problem, just suspect it. Yeah, nothing bad could ever come of this one.

    NPR or Fox mentions something so and so doesn't like -BAM!- website shut down. I can't see any good coming from a bill like this.

  4. #4
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    Re: Web censorship - we all need to be very concerned about this!

    This is another step to censor the web/control information. You bet it flew through the senate, this is what the government wants, control. There are laws in place to get the offenders of piracy and that is where it should stay. How hard is it to make a CD/DVD then sell it give it away?

    You don't want this bill passed or any like it.

    Combating Online Infringement and Counterfeits Act (COICA, S.3804)

    Contact your congressman
    Last edited by falcon_view; 11-20-2010 at 11:49 AM.

  5. #5
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    Re: Web censorship - we all need to be very concerned about this!

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."
    Or you can just read it.

    http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...3804rs.txt.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by Big B-man View Post
    Woah! That's a very bad idea to pass this bill. They don't have to actually prove there's a problem, just suspect it. Yeah, nothing bad could ever come of this one.

    NPR or Fox mentions something so and so doesn't like -BAM!- website shut down. I can't see any good coming from a bill like this.
    1) AG must provide evidence to the court before any action is taken
    2) There is nothing about censorship, this is only about sites that illegally distribute or facilitate distribution of stolen intellectual property.

    Quote Originally Posted by falcon_view View Post
    This is another step to censor the web/control information. You bet it flew through the senate, this is what the government wants, control. There are laws in place to get the offenders of piracy and that is where it should stay. How hard is it to make a CD/DVD then sell it give it away?

    You don't want this bill passed or any like it.

    Combating Online Infringement and Counterfeits Act (COICA, S.3804)

    Contact your congressman
    I disagree with your assessment that this is an attempt to censor information. But you can bet that's what those against this bill will claim.

    As far as I can see, this bill requires the AG to provide evidence to the court, provides a mechanism for dispute of such judgements, and is all about theft of intellectual property definitely not about censorship.

    Really, I'm surprised they haven't done this earlier. Most of the laws regarding theft of intellectual property have no teeth when the source of the stolen property is outside the US. Killing their DNS makes sense.

    Anyway, while I'm not sure of the ability to enforce this act, I do support getting control of the stolen intellectual property problem. But I haven't heard a valid argument againstthis act, all I've heard is overblown, misinformed hype.

    For those against this bill, how do you propose we get control of the piracy problem?
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  6. #6
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    Re: Web censorship - we all need to be very concerned about this!

    Calm down smoke. Like I said, this is an inroad to controlling the web and Washington wants all the control it can get. It will fly like a helium balloon. Besides, there is money behind this bill, the rest of us only have hot air.
    Last edited by falcon_view; 11-20-2010 at 06:58 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: Web censorship - we all need to be very concerned about this!

    lol I'm calm, and not making outrageous claims as EFF and Wired are prone to doing.

    So what do you propose we do about piracy? Really, I'm curious. Because continuing to let these sites operate is like giving the 7 time DUI offender another driver's license.

    The big thing is the sites that set up shop outside the US but we all know that means nothing on the internet. We have no control, no laws that we can enforce, against these sites when set up outside the US.
    Tyan S5397 2x X5450 16GB - SuperMicro H8DCI 2x 275 8GB - Iwill DK8X 2x Opteron 250 2GB


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  8. #8
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    Re: Web censorship - we all need to be very concerned about this!

    Smoke, about the only think you could do about piracy is nuke em. Take a look around and see all the knock offs coming out of china. Here is an idea, if an american company does any advertising on those sites, fine the h*ll out of the them. If the rest of the free world would do the same it would slow them up. If there are any american companies placing ads on those sites, you can bet they know what is going on.

  9. #9
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    Re: Web censorship - we all need to be very concerned about this!

    Piracy cannot be stopped unless every aspect of the internet and it's users are controlled and monitored So must we sacrifice our freedoms to keep some fat cat's wallet full?
    The losses due to piracy that these companies report are greatly exaggerated becuase they make the leap that every illegal download would have been a purchase if the facilities for piracy did not exist. But yet millions of dollars get dumped toward circumventing piracy that never work and further inconveniences the paying customer.
    I've personally made an effort to use legal software/media, but yet I still continue to utilize hacks because their easier to deal with than the legit route.
    So I for one have no sympathy for these clowns and their loss of intellectual profit property anymore. The lengths they will go through to get every last piece of pie never ceases to amaze. Whether it's taking some kid's youtube channel offline becuase he posted a grainy 5 second clip of some crappy movie, suing because somebody's song sounds too alike to the "Kookabura Song", and just outright bypassing the "fair use" act.
    Every anti piracy measure has and will always fail unless everything you and I do is monitored. So when this bill passes and they find out that it's just not enough, they'll be ready for the next step; whatever that may be. This is why we should ask ourselves whether it is acceptable to lose our freedom over it?
    Last edited by JustinC939; 11-21-2010 at 02:36 AM.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  10. #10
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    Re: Web censorship - we all need to be very concerned about this!

    Think about it like this:

    Knives can kill people, but you don't take them away from everyone just
    because one criminal uses it for a crime.

    Vehicles are used to escape the police, but you don't take them away from
    everyone just to make their job easier.

    And so on. Can the Internet be used for illegal activity? Sure it can. But that
    doesn't give the Govt. the right to treat it, or us, like that's all we use it for.


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  11. #11
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    Re: Web censorship - we all need to be very concerned about this!

    Quote Originally Posted by smoked trout View Post
    Or you can just read it.

    http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...3804rs.txt.pdf

    1) AG must provide evidence to the court before any action is taken
    2) There is nothing about censorship, this is only about sites that illegally distribute or facilitate distribution of stolen intellectual property.



    I disagree with your assessment that this is an attempt to censor information. But you can bet that's what those against this bill will claim.

    As far as I can see, this bill requires the AG to provide evidence to the court, provides a mechanism for dispute of such judgements, and is all about theft of intellectual property definitely not about censorship.

    Really, I'm surprised they haven't done this earlier. Most of the laws regarding theft of intellectual property have no teeth when the source of the stolen property is outside the US. Killing their DNS makes sense.

    Anyway, while I'm not sure of the ability to enforce this act, I do support getting control of the stolen intellectual property problem. But I haven't heard a valid argument againstthis act, all I've heard is overblown, misinformed hype.

    For those against this bill, how do you propose we get control of the piracy problem?
    I think that you will find that there are plenty of laws regarding protecting intellectual property already- and those laws aren't concerned about the medium the property stolen with. I work for a Fortune 500 aerospace company where we have courses on this.

    We don't need any more legislation than what's on the books. Sort of like we have a constitution that no one in government cares to read- let alone enforce. There are tons of laws protecting businesses- but the businesses continually give it away themselves with outsourcing and deliberately poor and careless control of information anyhow.

    No, these bills are trojan horses like healthcare, stimulus- you name it. What this is about is the control of information. They want to SELL information you can find freely on the web today and they want to go after anyone who does not pay to use it. For example, THIS PCPer site will likely have to pay for information it does not already have permission to use concerning PC components, games or whatever. THIS TLR forum could become targeted for posting copies of articles found at Fox or Bloomberg. They may have to pay a fee or face a lawsuit and shutdown.

    This is about a multi-billion dollar media complex that can no longer sell content by paper, theater or cable TV because people can get it for free on the internet. I don't buy the Wall Street Journal paper because I can get it for free on the net without having to dump the trash daily. This part of a push will zip up all the important information servers that you will soon have to pay a monthly subscriber's fee to use- and if you use it anywhere else, you can be prosecuted and fined.

    Once that is done, the content of that information can be regulated as it is on licensed media channels right now. Not only will you have to pay for your ISP, but for anywhere you want to go on the web.

    There is some upside- but what you will lose will be forums and sites like this. The endgame I see- unless they become licensed pay-go sites, they will be delegated to the fringe or shut down altogether.

    Now why would the government want it so bad? Simple- so they can TAX it to help pay the interest on their debt.
    Last edited by AeroSim; 11-21-2010 at 10:11 AM.
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  12. #12
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    Re: Web censorship - we all need to be very concerned about this!

    Quote Originally Posted by smoked trout View Post
    I just did. It's not that big of a read and it is exactly for the purpose I just mentioned.

    What you have here is not to protect the people. What you have here is the beginning of the end of the public domain.

    This law is really so pointless in protecting our technical information. Our companies are bringing Chinese and Indian engineers over by the droves to "train" (mostly OJT), allowing them to access our computer systems, and then not checking them for USB thumb drives when they leave.

    What you need to key on are what constitutes infringement and intellectual property and ask yourself how it can be taxed and dutied.

    Ref:

    http://openjurist.org/title-18/us-co...nd-restitution
    http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html#506
    http://openjurist.org/18/usc/2318
    http://openjurist.org/18/usc/2319
    etc.

    Just follow the links. You will soon see that the internet is being made into just another media organ with all the profits, taxation and content regulation soon to apply.
    Last edited by AeroSim; 11-21-2010 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Added references
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

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