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  1. #211
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Actually my problem is not associating the cross with Christianity. When I see a cross I don’t automatically think about it being a symbol of Christianity I see it as a symbol of death and a grave marker. Crosses are also commonly used in memorials.

    I guess I’m not hypersensitive about Christianity.


    Also what’s wrong with having a memorial for a public servant on public land?
    The court apparently felt it was skewed towards one belief. Around here we have signs with the fallen officer's name at a location to memorialize their memory and contribution to the public good. Of course crosses are used in memorials. For Christians. The Star of David is used to memorialize someone who is a Jew. Someone who does not practice uses neither.

    I don't see the relevance of your example in regards to this topic simply for the public vs private land.

  2. #212
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    The NYC project sounds just peachy. Which floor is the synagogue on?

    BTW, I'm not sure I like their other mosque plans either:


  3. #213
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Enmore View Post
    The NYC project sounds just peachy. Which floor is the synagogue on?

    BTW, I'm not sure I like their other mosque plans either:


    Which floor is the sharia law court room on?

    I wonder if they’re going to have a public “Throw a Stone Day” where everybody can participate. I’m also into to public whippings.
    Last edited by tucker; 08-19-2010 at 06:25 PM.

  4. #214
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    The court apparently felt it was skewed towards one belief. Around here we have signs with the fallen officer's name at a location to memorialize their memory and contribution to the public good. Of course crosses are used in memorials. For Christians. The Star of David is used to memorialize someone who is a Jew. Someone who does not practice uses neither.

    I don't see the relevance of your example in regards to this topic simply for the public vs private land.

    Heh, I wonder how many non-christians are buried under crosses as a matter of fact I wonder how many people that had no religion at all are buried under crosses.

    When I’m driving down the highway and I see a roadside cross in an isolated area my reaction is:

    That’s a grave marker.

    Somebody died here in a car accident.

    That’s a lousy way to die, poor soul.

    I think I’ll kick it down from 85 to 75 mph for a while.



    What I don’t think:

    There’s a cross it’s a symbol of Christianity and it’s on public land.

    I’m offended.

    That’s a church and state violation.

    I’m going to sue.



    That’s just the way I am and that’s one of the differences between me and you. If you don’t like the way I think sue me…
    Last edited by tucker; 08-19-2010 at 06:12 PM.

  5. #215
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    It is pretty weird to get offended by the shape of a grave marker.

    Personally, I don't think anyone does.

  6. #216
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Facilities


    Park51 will grow into a world-class community center, planned to include the following facilities:
    •outstanding recreation spaces and fitness facilities (swimming pool, gym, basketball court)
    •a 500-seat auditorium
    •a restaurant and culinary school
    •cultural amenities including exhibitions
    •education programs
    •a library, reading room and art studios
    •childcare services
    •a mosque, intended to be run separately from Park51 but open to and accessible to all members, visitors and our New York community
    •a September 11th memorial and quiet contemplation space, open to all
    Why Now?


    With a history going back centuries, almost to the City’s founding, New York’s diverse Muslim communities have worshiped, served and enriched our city in countless ways. We want to continue giving back, by realizing an institution like no other, a community center for our City, a model to the world of dialogue and discussion and a dedicated commitment to developing individuals, families and communities.

    In the spirit of tolerance and service, the Muslim community of New York envisions a world-class facility and an unprecedented community center as a gesture of our dedication to our city. At a time of economic hardship, Park51 will constitute an investment of over $100 million of infrastructure in lower Manhattan, creating over 150 full-time jobs and over 500 part-time jobs, and providing much needed space, open to all, for community activities, health and wellness, arts and culture and personal and professional development.

    We're just getting started on the road ahead. We invite you to contact us with your questions and comments, and hope you check in again as we move forward.

    Where is Park51?

    At 51 Park Place, in Lower Manhattan, just west of Church Street. A complete renovation of the existing building is in the works, as we determine how best to serve our community in a responsible, accessible (and green) way. Long-term plans for the space are under discussion.

    Who's leading Park51?

    Park51 is an independent project led by Muslim Americans. This project is separate from The Cordoba Initiative and ASMA. The next step in developing Park51 is forming a non-profit and applying for tax-exempt status. Imam Feisal Abdul-Rauf and Sharif El-Gamal are serving as the project managers until that time.

    This non-profit will be run by an Executive Director, yet to be selected, support staff, and a 23-member Board of Directors. We will choose a diverse Board of Directors, based on leadership, experience and perspective. The Board will not be limited by religion or region.

    The mosque, yet to be named, will be run by a separate non-profit whose Board of Directors will reflect a broad range of experience. While the mosque will be located in the planned final structure of Park51, it will be a distinct non-profit.

    What's Cordoba House and What's Its Relationship to Park51?

    Cordoba House, under the direction of Imam Feisal Abdul-Rauf, will represent a multifaith programming cluster within Park51.

    Who owns the property that will become Park51?

    The 51 Park Place building and lot is owned by Soho Properties, a private real estate developer here in Manhattan.

    Who’s financing the development of Park51?

    We’ll be establishing a non-profit entity and applying for 501 c(3) federal tax-exempt status, and we’ll pursue future development with a mix of equity, financing and contributions.

    We have not yet launched our fundraising campaign. Park51 will incorporate as a non-profit and seek federal tax-exempt status. We are pledging to pursue this fundraising campaign in accordance with all applicable laws and regulations. We have hired legal counsel and top-notch auditors to oversee this process from start to finish.

    We will hire security consultants to assist us in the process of reviewing potential financiers and philanthropists as we begin to establish our fundraising strategy. We will refuse assistance, financial or otherwise, from any persons or institutions who are flagged by our security consultants or any government agencies.

    When will Park51 open?

    Daily Muslim prayer services have been held at 51 Park Place since late 2009. We hope to expand services and facilities in the coming months, although a firm date has not yet been set for the opening of Park51. For more information about worship services, see our Ramadan page.

    How can I become part of Park51?

    From community leaders and artists to businesspeople, teachers and residents old and new, Park51 will have something for everyone -- just like New York. We need your help to realize this vision: Please contact us with any questions or concerns, consider making a donation and check back often for further updates.

    For more information on Park51, we suggest you read Altmuslim's exciting interview. Please also see our August 3, 2010, Op-Ed published by New York Daily News.


  7. #217
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    It is pretty weird to get offended by the shape of a grave marker.

    Personally, I don't think anyone does.


    That would be silly for sure.

  8. #218
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Not that this whole state bought crosses on state land isn't totally off-topic, but a cross is the very symbol of Christianity. Naturally, if you are of a Christian background you can describe it as just 'the shape of a grave marker'. Using that logic a pedophile is just someone who loves children. Chew on that.

  9. #219
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    AP Orders Staff: ‘Stop Using the Phrase “Ground Zero Mosque”’

    By Alana Goodman

    Thu, 08/19/2010 - 16:10 ET

    In an unusual move, the Associated Press has publicly released an advisory memo to its reporters on how to cover of the Ground Zero mosque story - and the first rule is that journalists must immediately stop calling it the "Ground Zero mosque" story.

    "We should continue to avoid the phrase ‘Ground zero mosque' or ‘mosque at ground zero' on all platforms," reads the advisory, which was issued by the AP's Standards Center.

    Instead of the "Ground Zero mosque," AP recommends that reporters use the terms "mosque 2 blocks from WTC site," "Muslim (or Islamic) center near WTC site," "mosque near ground zero," or "mosque near WTC site."
    How about calling it "The mosque that's so near to tower one it had a Boeing 767 undercarriage smash through its roof".


    Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/alana-g...#ixzz0x9Y3CSp6
    Last edited by Enmore; 08-20-2010 at 09:49 AM.

  10. #220
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Pehu View Post
    Not that this whole state bought crosses on state land isn't totally off-topic, but a cross is the very symbol of Christianity. Naturally, if you are of a Christian background you can describe it as just 'the shape of a grave marker'. Using that logic a pedophile is just someone who loves children. Chew on that.
    I'm not following that logic, 'cause its more like a jump from the sky, but Catholic priests do usually have a cross on their graves.

  11. #221
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    For Enmore, from directorblue:

    Because the AP ordered its reporters to stop referring to the Ground Zero Mosque as, well, the Ground Zero Mosque, helpful commenters at Michelle Malkin's site suggested some alternatives.

    Pro journalists: take note. The top 15?

    15. Landing Gear Mosque
    14. Project Bloomberg
    13. 9/11 Victory Mosque
    12. Daily Kosque
    11. Caliphate-on-Hudson
    10. The Gorelick & Clarke Building
    9. Mosque formerly known as the Ground Zero Mosque
    8. Hamosque
    7. Crater’s Edge
    6. Bullseye
    5. The Mohammed Atta Memorial
    4. Hormel House
    3. The Debris Field Mosque
    2. Burlington Terrorist Factory
    1. New York Fire Training Academy

    Won't you please help the AP?

  12. #222
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Pehu View Post
    Not that this whole state bought crosses on state land isn't totally off-topic, but a cross is the very symbol of Christianity. Naturally, if you are of a Christian background you can describe it as just 'the shape of a grave marker'. Using that logic a pedophile is just someone who loves children. Chew on that.


    I’m not Christian or any other religion so for me the cross is nothing more than a grave marker. In other words the cross has no religious connotations for me.

    It seems to me Utah is a Mormon state and if I’m correct Mormons don’t wear the cross or display it in or on their churches. So I don’t necessarily see a link to Christianity there. From my perspective I see nitpicking and an overreaction.

  13. #223
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by otoc View Post
    He's with my mom now, or will be, after we travel to Arlington National.


    I’m sorry to hear about your father’s passing. Burial at Arlington is quite an honor and he’ll rest with the finest people this country had to offer. With the military being a big part of my life I’m always interested in hearing the stories behind our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines and their sacrifices. For burial at Arlington there are some stringent requirements that go beyond those for burial at any other military or VA cemetery. Obviously your father made some significant contributions and if you don’t mind sharing I sure would like to hear some of his story in a general sort of way.

  14. #224
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Saw this in another forum... I think it illustrates a few pretty relevant points.



    Listed, but not arrowed -- St. Peter's Roman Catholic Church and St. Paul's Chapel to 2 o'clock and 3 o'clock of Ground Zero, closer than the proposed mosque.
    Last edited by Phopojijo; 08-20-2010 at 04:27 PM.

  15. #225
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Phopojijo View Post
    Saw this in another forum... I think it illustrates a few pretty relevant points.



    Listed, but not arrowed -- St. Peter's Roman Catholic Church and St. Paul's Chapel to 2 o'clock and 3 o'clock of Ground Zero, closer than the proposed mosque.
    And your point(s)? I especially want to hear why you think the Catholic and Christian churches matter. I can't seem to remember any Catholic/Christian extremists on board those doomed airplanes on 9/11.

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