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  1. #76
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip View Post
    Strange isn't it? Liberals are a strange lot in general though. They will back a "religion" that is pretty much against every one of their own beliefs, yet attack a far more popular religion that is much more apt to bend it's own beliefs in an attempt to appease the liberals.

    Confounding isnít it.

  2. #77
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Confounding isn’t it.
    Again: Except that I'm Roman Catholic. Try again.

  3. #78
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Phopojijo View Post
    Again: Except that I'm Roman Catholic. Try again.


    That really wasnít directed at you unless you have one set of rules for Christianity (Christians) and a different set for Islam and Muslims.

  4. #79
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    To me, our values are what we hold true in our battle against a subset of fascist idiots that like to bring religion into law and hold most people prey to ignorance and poverty. That means I have no trouble with anything getting passed by the NY planning board, be it church, mosque, or strip joint.

    Interesting article here...
    Near Ground Zero, the Sacred and the Profane

    By CLYDE HABERMAN

    Published: May 27, 2010

    Since long before the Islamist terrorist attack of Sept. 11, 2001, a storefront mosque has been sitting on West Broadway in TriBeCa, a dozen blocks from the World Trade Center. No one seems to have ever minded its being there.

    Now, assuming he can raise the money and clear some remaining bureaucratic hurdles, the spiritual guide of that mosque intends to build a multistory Islamic community center, including a space for prayer, on Park Place, two blocks from what is routinely called ground zero.
    Cries of protest have been loud and insistent from certain quarters. They include people who lost relatives on Sept. 11 and who describe the trade center site with words like “hallowed” and “sacred.” To put an Islamic center so close, they say, would amount to a defilement.
    At least now, in terms of geography, we know where outrage begins. That point is somewhere between 12 blocks and 2. The exact spot remains a mystery, though. Would it be O.K. if the Islamic center, called Cordoba House, were to be put four blocks from ground zero? Or is that still too close? How about eight blocks away?
    The intention here is not to be flippant. But the question of what constitutes proper respect for the dead of 9/11 has never been simple. For some, it seems to turn solely on religion, and that puts everyone on slippery constitutional terrain.
    No one is known to have protested the fact that three blocks from ground zero, on Murray Street off West Broadway, there is a strip joint. It prefers to call itself a gentlemen’s club. A man stood on the street corner the other day handing out free passes to willing gentlemen.
    On Church Street, around the corner from where Cordoba House would rise, there is a store that sells pornographic videos and an assortment of sex toys. A few doors east of the planned Islamic center, there is an Off-Track Betting office. Spilling onto the sidewalk in front of it the other day were men who would have been described in my old Bronx neighborhood as degenerate gamblers.
    A strip joint, a porno store and a government-run bookie operation. No one has organized demonstrations to denounce those activities as defiling the memory of the men and women who died a few hundred yards away.
    But an Islamic center strikes a nerve for some. At a bruising hearing that Manhattan Community Board 1 held Tuesday night before giving Cordoba House its blessing, one protester held a sign that said, “Where is sensitivity to 9/11 families?”
    A corollary to that question, however, might be: Which families? They are hardly a monolith.
    Some 9/11 relatives see anything Islamic near ground zero as a slap in the face. Others couldn’t care less. Still others share the opinion of Donna Marsh O’Connor, who is on the steering committee of a group called September 11 Families for Peaceful Tomorrows. She said it was “the American way” to have a cultural center that its founder, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, asserts is dedicated to interfaith tolerance.
    New York officialdom, while sensitive to the displeased families, has long made it clear that it is not about to hand them veto power over how the city builds and rebuilds. Officials from the mayor on down have endorsed Cordoba House, in large measure because of Imam Feisal, a Sufi who has cultivated relations with other religions and who has spoken out against the violence of Islamist fanatics. He has given no one a reason to doubt his sincerity.
    OUTRAGE over the project seems at times to increase in direct proportion to distance from the site. A columnist for the tabloid Washington Examiner recently called it “the second attack on the World Trade Center.” Columnists and editorialists for New York’s tabloids who are rarely given to kumbaya moments have described such denunciations as “hysteria.”
    One 9/11 relative observed ruefully this week that the Islamic center would attract noisy protests to a scarred area of the city that should be, he said, a zone of tranquillity. If that proves to be the case, it is up to the demonstrators to decide how loud they want to be in the shadow of the trade center.
    But they have a right to protest. It is guaranteed in the First Amendment, the same one that ensures freedom of religion, with no asterisk that says “*except for Islam.” It is the same amendment that allows a strip joint and a porno shop to exist a couple of blocks from hallowed ground.
    E-mail: haberman@nytimes.com

  5. #80
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra_nVidia View Post
    "Muslims" are people who chose to be part of something, not an ethnicity, no matter how much you might want them to be.
    seems to me a lot of people convert to Muslim.......do you know the main reason? Most likely the reason is........TAX
    wake up

  6. #81
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    An atheist's perspective, pay attention (and maybe watch some of his other videos as well.)


  7. #82
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Personally if I had my way I wouldnít approve a new mosque, church or any other religious facility anywhere near where the towers once stood. The simple reason is quite apparent in this very thread. It leads to calls of racism, hate and other assorted public discontent. This isnít about religion or the mosque itís about a deliberate attempt to cause trouble and one up the ante in a cultural war created by politicians, special interests and other assorted cork suckers. To me itís like building a whore house next door to a grade school just to fufill some idiotic agenda.

  8. #83
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    I think it is to be a visible symbol of a Muslim victory. Islam imposing it's will on a weak and frightened United States.
    FRH
    If more sane people were armed the crazy ones would get off fewer shots.

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  9. #84
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Personally if I had my way I wouldnít approve a new mosque, church or any other religious facility anywhere near where the towers once stood. The simple reason is quite apparent in this very thread. It leads to calls of racism, hate and other assorted public discontent. This isnít about religion or the mosque itís about a deliberate attempt to cause trouble and one up the ante in a cultural war created by politicians, special interests and other assorted cork suckers. To me itís like building a whore house next door to a grade school just to fufill some idiotic agenda.
    the constitution says that no law shall be made in regards to religion.
    Max Plank: "A new scientific truth does not
    triumph by convincing its opponents and making them
    see the light,
    but rather because its opponents eventually die"
    Arthur Shopenhauer: "Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized.
    First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is opposed. Third, it is regarded as self evident."
    Martin NiemŲller:
    "When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;I was not a communist.
    When they locked up the social democrats,I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;I wasn't a Jew.When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out."

  10. #85
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by old82 View Post
    the constitution says that no law shall be made in regards to religion.

    Itís not making a law itís approving or disapproving a building permit. I believe the constitution also indicates we have freedom from religion. No decision should be based on religious belief(s).

  11. #86
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by old82 View Post
    the constitution says that no law shall be made in regards to religion.
    close...
    First Amendment:
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    These rights are not absolute. You cannot shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre for example.

    Second Amendment:
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    Once again, obviously not absolute.

  12. #87
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank1946 View Post
    I think it is to be a visible symbol of a Muslim victory. Islam imposing it's will on a weak and frightened United States.
    yup........
    I say Screw em and feed em pork.......

  13. #88
    Joined
    Oct 2001
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    771

    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    people "Tuesday to support a plan to build a mosque and cultural center near ground zero." near and at two different things... what everyone needs to do take a Valium and stop the religious persecution in this country... this is a nonissue that is becoming an issue why the right is playing on emotions...

    personally i don't care it is these people right in this country to practice their religion... so what now they have a their own church and its 2 blocks from ground zero woopie
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  14. #89
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by ai5000 View Post
    close...
    First Amendment:

    These rights are not absolute. You cannot shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre for example.

    Second Amendment:

    Once again, obviously not absolute.
    whether or not they are absolute depends on your opinion.

    there is one thing i want to note, and you played right into my hands on this one. oh, i wish there were an evil smiley.


    if you start restricting speech, as with the fire yell, then you open up the possibility of limiting other speech, just as has been shown with the press and everything else noted here.

    and from there it just snowballs.

    thank you for making that so evident.


    the same goes for every other freedom.
    Max Plank: "A new scientific truth does not
    triumph by convincing its opponents and making them
    see the light,
    but rather because its opponents eventually die"
    Arthur Shopenhauer: "Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized.
    First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is opposed. Third, it is regarded as self evident."
    Martin NiemŲller:
    "When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;I was not a communist.
    When they locked up the social democrats,I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;I wasn't a Jew.When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out."

  15. #90
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Yeah its a slippery slope. There are already well established restrictions on speech, religion, and gun ownership in this country.

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