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  1. #91
    Joined
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by ai5000 View Post
    You cannot shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre for example.
    Of course you can? Just better not be lying when you do it.

  2. #92
    Joined
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    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Age
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Again religion is not a problem, its a medicine, war is a side effect.
    Isn't a side effect a problem? Ill agree that its a medicine. Good analogy there. Some people need it some dont. I am all about freedom of religion even if I think it is a problem and loathe it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip View Post
    Strange isn't it? Liberals are a strange lot in general though. They will back a "religion" that is pretty much against every one of their own beliefs, yet attack a far more popular religion that is much more apt to bend it's own beliefs in an attempt to appease the liberals.
    Well I'm not a liberal and I don't back any religon, but I do back the FREEDOM of religion. I dont care what you want to believe as long as it isn't being pushed on others its fine with me.

    You and many others here seem to confuse Religion with government. Which is easy to do as it has been so integrated into many goverments. However we have the absolute luxury of it being against our constitution to do so here. It doesn't matter what the religion believes in it has no power in government here. Stop comparing muslim countries to ours because it isn't the same thing. They don't have the freedom of choice we have, they dont have a government seperate of religion.

    I've never understood why people cant keep religion to themselves. Why must everyone be converted to your idea of religion. If it isnt for power/control/war what the hell is it that compells you to meddle in other people's beliefs?

  3. #93
    Joined
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    7,743

    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearded Frog View Post
    I've never understood why people cant keep religion to themselves. Why must everyone be converted to your idea of religion. If it isnt for power/control/war what the hell is it that compells you to meddle in other people's beliefs?
    There'd be a good thread.

    Religion is used a lot as a social tool, while I'm of the persuasion that it's a personal thing. So yeah, a lot of the time it's used for "power/control/war" but if you look around you'll also see churches/mosques/etc doing some pretty good things.
    Tyan S5397 2x X5450 16GB - SuperMicro H8DCI 2x 275 8GB - Iwill DK8X 2x Opteron 250 2GB


    Take a Kid FISHING!

  4. #94
    Joined
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,736

    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearded Frog View Post
    Stop comparing muslim countries to ours because it isn't the same thing. They don't have the freedom of choice we have, they dont have a government seperate of religion.
    That is a key point in this whole conversation that has been overlooked by pretty much the lot of us / (yall for us country bumpkins)
    Sorta makes me think of a post previously made in this thread about the mosque being like a flag.............



    Quote Originally Posted by Bearded Frog View Post
    I've never understood why people cant keep religion to themselves. Why must everyone be converted to your idea of religion. If it isnt for power/control/war what the hell is it that compells you to meddle in other people's beliefs?
    good thinking you have at times. Personally I do not care what others do. period... unless it is messing with me and mine, then I have issues. Sorta like the one at hand here.......they are messing with MY Country

  5. #95
    Joined
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    Colorafornia, USSA
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearded Frog View Post


    Well I'm not a liberal and I don't back any religon, but I do back the FREEDOM of religion. I dont care what you want to believe as long as it isn't being pushed on others its fine with me.

    You and many others here seem to confuse Religion with government.
    Wrong. I'm not the one confusing religion with government. For a great and shining example of what happens when the two are mixed see any ME dominantly Muslim country. One also only needs to look to Europe today to see how it is being changed as more and more Muslims immigrate there. Islam is known for pushing it's beliefs on others. They also tend to deal rather harshly with anyone who disagrees with them too.

  6. #96
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    Kern River Valley, CA
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    I still fail to see how denying a building permit is interfering with freedom of religion. A commission can deny building permits for a vast number of reasons. I’d like to see a synagogue and a catholic church built right next door to the mosque. Do you think the commission would approve of that?

    The answer is hell no…

    That’s a pretty high rent area I’d still like to see where the funding is coming from.
    Last edited by tucker; 06-08-2010 at 09:07 PM.

  7. #97
    Joined
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    644

    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    I still fail to see how denying a building permit is interfering with freedom of religion. A commission can deny building permits for a vast number of reasons. I’d like to see a synagogue and a catholic church built right next door to the mosque. Do you think the commission would approve of that?

    The answer is hell no…

    That’s a pretty high rent area I’d still like to see where the funding is coming from.
    Denying a building permit is not interfering with freedom of religion. Firing someone is not interfering with freedom of religion. Firing someone because you hate their religion is interfering with freedom of religion.

  8. #98
    Joined
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Age
    32
    Posts
    6,438

    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip View Post
    Wrong. I'm not the one confusing religion with government. For a great and shining example of what happens when the two are mixed see any ME dominantly Muslim country. One also only needs to look to Europe today to see how it is being changed as more and more Muslims immigrate there. Islam is known for pushing it's beliefs on others. They also tend to deal rather harshly with anyone who disagrees with them too.
    As long as our gov't decides to actually read/follow the consitition no religion will be able to integrate with the gov't here. Muslim or otherwise.

    Again all religions are violent, all religons cause war, all religions can become a part of gov't, ALL religions are prone to what muslims are. Christianity pretty much started off that way. I'm not saying that religion in itself isnt good for some people and cant have positive effects. However they can all have those negative effects. It isn't limited to the muslims.

  9. #99
    Joined
    May 2002
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    Twain Harte, CA
    Posts
    20,453

    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearded Frog View Post
    As long as our gov't decides to actually read/follow the constitution...
    Houston... we've got a problem.

  10. #100
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Age
    40
    Posts
    6,498

    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Maybe, just maybe, the crazies can read this story and they will finally understand the concept of irony. But I doubt it. Stay classy.

    http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w...ate/index.html

    "Ground Zero Mosque" protest ends up, predictably, with racially-motivated hatred"

    There was a protest yesterday, attended by various wingnuts, racists, riled-up nativists, and terrified fools, of the supposed "Ground Zero mosque." (It will not be at Ground Zero, and it will actually be a community center that will include a mosque. But still.)

    While national conservatives have picked up the ball, what local opposition there is to the proposed community center has been ginned up by Rupert Murdoch's New York Post -- mainly via perpetually outraged columnist Andrea Peyser, whose anti-mosque columns are regularly teased on the front page.

    The entire anti-mosque campaign isn't about anything other than pure, paranoid Islamophobia. A Peyser column a few weeks ago was entirely about people in Sheepshead Bay -- some miles from Ground Zero -- protesting a proposed mosque solely because they're scared of Muslims.

    Anyway, they had their protest yesterday. Mike Kelly of the Bergen (New Jersey) Record reported this heartwarming incident:

    At one point, a portion of the crowd menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men who were speaking Arabic and were thought to be Muslims.

    "Go home," several shouted from the crowd.

    "Get out," others shouted.

    In fact, the two men – Joseph Nassralla and Karam El Masry — were not Muslims at all. They turned out to be Egyptian Coptic Christians who work for a California-based Christian satellite TV station called "The Way." Both said they had come to protest the mosque.

    "I'm a Christian," Nassralla shouted to the crowd, his eyes bulging and beads of sweat rolling down his face.

    But it was no use. The protesters had become so angry at what they thought were Muslims that New York City police officers had to rush in and pull Nassralla and El Masry to safety.

    "I flew nine hours in an airplane to come here," a frustrated Nassralla said afterward.

    But don't you dare call these people bigots!

  11. #101
    Joined
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    Colorafornia, USSA
    Age
    46
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    13,823

    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearded Frog View Post
    As long as our gov't decides to actually read/follow the consitition no religion will be able to integrate with the gov't here. Muslim or otherwise.

    Again all religions are violent, all religons cause war, all religions can become a part of gov't, ALL religions are prone to what muslims are. Christianity pretty much started off that way. I'm not saying that religion in itself isnt good for some people and cant have positive effects. However they can all have those negative effects. It isn't limited to the muslims.
    I'm well aware of all the damage a lot of religions have done over the centuries. I know the Christians had their crusades. However the Christians are not the ones I'm currently worried about. Last I checked they didn't have members going off on Jihads, blowing up buildings with airplanes, blowing up subways, etc. Like you say as long as our government follows the constitution religion can be kept out. The only problem is our government treats the constitution like toilet paper now.

  12. #102
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    5,171

    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Maybe, just maybe, the crazies can read this story and they will finally understand the concept of irony. But I doubt it. Stay classy.

    http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w...ate/index.html
    it's funny that the writer says "these people" are bigots when when he is stereotyping them all.
    Max Plank: "A new scientific truth does not
    triumph by convincing its opponents and making them
    see the light,
    but rather because its opponents eventually die"
    Arthur Shopenhauer: "Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized.
    First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is opposed. Third, it is regarded as self evident."
    Martin Niemöller:
    "When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;I was not a communist.
    When they locked up the social democrats,I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;I wasn't a Jew.When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out."

  13. #103
    Joined
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Kern River Valley, CA
    Age
    71
    Posts
    21,594

    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Maybe, just maybe, the crazies can read this story and they will finally understand the concept of irony. But I doubt it. Stay classy.

    http://www.salon.com/news/politics/w...ate/index.html

    Like I said before this is not really about religion it’s all about out of control political correctness and in your face politics. There are many places they could have built that mosque it’s no accident they chose the place they did.

    Yep the organizers who planned this mosque are getting the exact hate reaction they hoped for. I think it’s kind of ironic Muslims should be complaining about hate.

    btw… Salon really isn’t what I would call a reliable nonpartisan (fair & balanced) publication.

  14. #104
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    5,171

    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    I still fail to see how denying a building permit is interfering with freedom of religion. A commission can deny building permits for a vast number of reasons. I’d like to see a synagogue and a catholic church built right next door to the mosque. Do you think the commission would approve of that?

    The answer is hell no…

    That’s a pretty high rent area I’d still like to see where the funding is coming from.
    because in this case they'd obviously be denying on the grounds of their religion! as that would be the only reason to deny it!

    stop being so prideful.
    Max Plank: "A new scientific truth does not
    triumph by convincing its opponents and making them
    see the light,
    but rather because its opponents eventually die"
    Arthur Shopenhauer: "Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized.
    First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is opposed. Third, it is regarded as self evident."
    Martin Niemöller:
    "When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;I was not a communist.
    When they locked up the social democrats,I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;I wasn't a Jew.When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out."

  15. #105
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    5,171

    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    Like I said before this is not really about religion it’s all about out of control political correctness and in your face politics. There are many places they could have built that mosque it’s no accident they chose the place they did.

    Yep the organizers who planned this mosque are getting the exact hate reaction they hoped for. I think it’s kind of ironic Muslims should be complaining about hate.

    and on this part you are right.
    Max Plank: "A new scientific truth does not
    triumph by convincing its opponents and making them
    see the light,
    but rather because its opponents eventually die"
    Arthur Shopenhauer: "Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized.
    First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is opposed. Third, it is regarded as self evident."
    Martin Niemöller:
    "When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;I was not a communist.
    When they locked up the social democrats,I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;I wasn't a Jew.When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out."

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