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  1. #121
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    NRO = Andrew Breitbart = selective editing to make something look completely different than it really is.

    The NRO piece:

    Rauf is no moderate. He presents himself as a peacemaking Islamic Gandhi, but he is in fact an apologist for the terrorist outfit Hamas, which he refuses even to identify as a terrorist organization. Nor is Rauf exactly full-throated in his rejection of terrorism, offering only this: “The issue of terrorism is a very complex question.” While he cannot quite bring himself to blame the terrorists for being terrorists, he finds it easy to blame the United States for being a victim of terrorism: “I wouldn’t say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.”
    He must be a terrorist apologist, right? Cuz the NRO said so.

    Gee, lets see what he really said. Again, context being the ultimate beeeeyotch here:

    http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/a...f_to_terrorism

    Conservatives point to this exchange between Ed Bradley and Rauf on 60 Minutes shortly after the 9/11 attacks to suggest Rauf sympathizes with terrorists:

    Bradley: And throughout the Muslim world, there is also strong opposition to America's foreign policy, particularly in the Middle East because of its support of Israel and economic sanctions against Iraq.

    Faisal: it is a reaction against the US government politically, where we espouse principles of democracy and human rights, and where we ally ourselves with oppressive regimes in many of these countries.

    Bradley: Are you in any way suggesting that we in the United States deserved what happened?

    Faisal: I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but united states policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.

    Bradley: You say that we're an accessory? How?

    Faisal: Because we have been accessory to a lot of innocent lives dying in the world. In fact, in the most direct sense, Osama bin Laden is made in the USA.

    Whether you agree with this statement or not, criticism of American foreign policy doesn't amount to "support" for terrorism, or Ron Paul would be under investigation for expressing similar views. Rauf's detractors also tend to ignore this statement Rauf made in the exact same interview:

    Bradley: What would you say to people in this country who, looking at what happened in the Middle East, would associate Islam with fanaticism, with terrorism?

    Faisal: Fanaticism and terrorism have no place in Islam. That's just as absurd as associating Hitler with Christianity, or David Koresh with Christianity. There are always people who will do peculiar things, and think that they are doing things in the name of their religion. But the Koran is ... God says in the Koran that they think that they are doing right, but they are doing wrong.

    Likewise the "failure to denounce Hamas" exchange has been overblown into "support" for Hamas. This is what the New York Post reported he said months ago:

    "I am a peace builder. I will not allow anybody to put me in a position where I am seen by any party in the world as an adversary or as an enemy," Rauf said, insisting that he wants to see peace in Israel between Jews and Arabs.
    And yet we have an entire thread devoted to the eeeeebil MSM. MAybe I'll start one dedicated to the NRO.

  2. #122
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Have at it with the NRO thread. It should be a real eye-popper.

    But I'm seeing something that seems odd here:
    ...insisting that he wants to see peace in Israel between Jews and Arabs.
    In Israel? Big whoop-dee-doo. Why in Israel? Is there a big problem in Israel? If so, we don't hear much about it. Its the crap outside of Israel that seems to be the real problem Israel has to deal with.

    I don't know. I don't know who this guy is, but when I hear qualified remarks like that, my somethin's funny in Denmark radar goes up.

    This little bitty doesn't sound like a "peace builder:
    Faisal: I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but united states policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.

    Bradley: You say that we're an accessory? How?

    Faisal: Because we have been accessory to a lot of innocent lives dying in the world. In fact, in the most direct sense, Osama bin Laden is made in the USA.
    Isn't an accessory one who aids and abets? Any legal scholars here that could address that?
    Last edited by Dutchcedar; 08-04-2010 at 05:36 PM.

  3. #123
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    Have at it with the NRO thread. It should be a real eye-popper.

    But I'm seeing something that seems odd here:In Israel? Big whoop-dee-doo. Why in Israel? Is there a big problem in Israel? If so, we don't hear much about it. Its the crap outside of Israel that seems to be the real problem Israel has to deal with.

    I don't know. I don't know who this guy is, but when I hear qualified remarks like that, my somethin's funny in Denmark radar goes up.

    This little bitty doesn't sound like a "peace builder:Isn't an accessory one who aids and abets? Any legal scholars here that could address that?
    Not a legal scholar here but its probably not worth debating as you most likely disagree with his statements on merit while I find them completely true. As the author points out, if this is the definition of a terrorist sympathizer then we might as well round up Ron Paul and throw him in Gitmo.

  4. #124
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    As the author points out, if this is the definition of a terrorist sympathizer then we might as well round up Ron Paul and throw him in Gitmo.
    Are you making what you tag as an NRO stretch? Is anyone calling for the guy to be put in Gitmo? Can I stretch too? Would you celebrate a $100,000,000 Center for Ron Paul studies at your alma mater?

    I think its about his wanting to build a mosque near the twin towers site and people want to know where the money's coming from and question this guy's preachings. From what I gather, there are lots of unanswered questions. I dunno about NRO, but do doubt you'll find his real teachings and motives in a 60 Minutes interview.

    I think NYC has so buggered up the entire rebuilding of the twin towers site that its little surprise a mosque built by an Imam that wants to bring sharia law to the United States could be finished near ground zero before the "freedom towers" will be.

    In a word, weird.

  5. #125
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    Are you making what you tag as an NRO stretch? Is anyone calling for the guy to be put in Gitmo? Can I stretch too? Would you celebrate a $100,000,000 Center for Ron Paul studies at your alma mater?
    Sorry...I can see why there is confusion as I posted two pieces. The piece I was referring to was the American Prospect piece, where the author says:

    Whether you agree with this statement or not, criticism of American foreign policy doesn't amount to "support" for terrorism, or Ron Paul would be under investigation for expressing similar views.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    I think its about his wanting to build a mosque near the twin towers site and people want to know where the money's coming from and question this guy's preachings. From what I gather, there are lots of unanswered questions. I dunno about NRO, but do doubt you'll find his real teachings and motives in a 60 Minutes interview.
    My guess is that you could probably dig up on dirt on anybody who believes so strongly in his religious convictions, whether they be Muslim, Jew, Christian, etc. People that far to the right religiously usually have baggage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    I think NYC has so buggered up the entire rebuilding of the twin towers site that its little surprise a mosque built by an Imam that wants to bring sharia law to the United States could be finished near ground zero before the "freedom towers" will be.

    In a word, weird.
    Can't disagree with you there.

  6. #126
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Just a small reminder if for no one else than myself...


  7. #127
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    The Asshole in chief gives his opinion on the mosque near the trade center site. Can anyone guess what his view is...the view of a closet muslim acting as commander in chief of a mostly christian nation? I won't bore you with the easy answer any longer.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...r-ground-zero/

    "Our capacity to show not merely tolerance, but respect to those who are different from us -- a way of life that stands in stark contrast to the nihilism of those who attacked us on that September morning, and who continue to plot against us today," he said.

    I'm so sick of this POS president. I really am. Here's a spineless wuss that in one sentence will pretend to back women's rights but in the next will back a religion that is working worldwide to treat women lower than dogs. Newsflash BO, Islam CAN NOT work in the US. We are a country built on individual freedoms. This is poison to Islam.

    I have to thank you though for finally at least giving us a tiny glimpse into that mind of yours. It's refreshing to actually hear you tell the truth about something.

  8. #128
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Ridicule really is the bestus tool here. The absolute absurdity of building a huge mosque in a building so close to ground 0 that a piece of landing gear fell through it's roof is simply "acting stupidly" even if The Won supports it.

    Ground Zero Mosque to Gutfeld: Your Gay Bar Won’t Build Dialog Because it Doesn’t Consider Our Sensibilities…



    You know, because Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf totally considered our sensibilities when he decided to build a giant mosque next to Ground Zero. Actually, he probably did and that’s exactly why the mosque is being built there…
    Checkmate.

    I'm sure the left would be as enthusiastic and supportive if the KKK planned to build a new $100 Million dollar 12-story glass-and-steel headquarters right next door to the The Lorraine Motel right? The place where MLK was assassinated and the site of the National Civil Rights Museum is the perfect place if the KKK claimed it was all be in the name of putting the KKK at the front and center to start the healing. -OR- How'd the SF liberals feel about erecting a $100 Million dollar 12-story glass-and-steel shrine to Dan White (who murdered San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and first openly gay Supervisor Harvey Milk) right next to City Hall where the murders took place? All in the name of honoring police officers and firefighters because White served as both prior to the murders. You mosque supporters would be totally cool with those ideas right? Ya.. like a turd in a punchbowl. Yet we're to believe a mosque at ground 0 is not at all insensitive to those impacted by 9/11 -AND- it's a celebration of our tolerance?? IMHO, the building of this mosque at that location to supposedly "build a dialog" is about absurd a claim as if the members from that wacked out Westboro Church claimed they protested at our soldiers funerals for the very same reasons.

    Really wanna "put the Muslim community at the front and center to start the healing." Mr. & Mrs Feisal Abdul Rauf? Take that $100 Mil and create a trust fund founded by the American Society for Muslim Advancement to support the victims, survivors and families of 9/11.

    Ya.. I see that happening.

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  9. #129
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    The mosque will get built. You think they'll fly planes into a building that can hurt a mosque? Nope. Why didn't they have a Mosque near the WTC? Then we wouldn't have been in the mess we are now. heheheheheh

  10. #130
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Let 'em build it.

    Just set fire to it before they can move in. I'm sure the FDNY will be suitably tardy.

  11. #131
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    My take on this..

    For me it's rather simple. If they want to build a mosque, sure why not. Build it next to ground zero and pi$$ off half the US population while advocating tolerance and understanding, well, that's not ok in my book. One can't have both like that at the same time. But it's a free country so if they can get every paper and approval from official sources to build it there no one should really stop them. Imho...
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  12. #132
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    How'd the SF liberals feel about erecting a $100 Million dollar 12-story glass-and-steel shrine to Dan White (who murdered San Francisco Mayor George Moscone and first openly gay Supervisor Harvey Milk) right next to City Hall where the murders took place? All in the name of honoring police officers and firefighters because White served as both prior to the murders.
    Using your 'logic' shouldn't you oppose any plans to erect statues and memorials honoring police officers and fire fighters due to the actions of Dan White? After all he served as both prior to the murders.

  13. #133
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip View Post
    the view of a closet muslim



    Congratulations: you just lost any credibility you might have with one phrase.



    M

  14. #134
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    Congratulations: you just lost any credibility you might have with one phrase.



    M
    yeah, why is it that people seem to want to enact the very things they criticize others for enacting in an attempt to prevent them?
    Max Plank: "A new scientific truth does not
    triumph by convincing its opponents and making them
    see the light,
    but rather because its opponents eventually die"
    Arthur Shopenhauer: "Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized.
    First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is opposed. Third, it is regarded as self evident."
    Martin Niemöller:
    "When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;I was not a communist.
    When they locked up the social democrats,I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.When they came for the trade unionists,I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;I wasn't a Jew.When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out."

  15. #135
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    Re: NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

    I wonder if non-muslims will even be allowed to enter the building.

    I wonder if the building will turn into a homegrown terrorist breeding ground.

    They have the right to build the mosque/community center but is it the right thing to do? That’s kind of a no brainer if you ask me.

    What it amounts to is in your face infidel… I’m sure Islamic terrorists will laugh their butts off at how stupid those Americans really are. It sure will make a good recruiting tool that’s for sure.

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