Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16
  1. #1
    Joined
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,926

    Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    I watch the latest topics thing on the front page for threads to post in and lately I've seen a lot of griping about a lack of new recruits coming from our froggies. This is likely a resurrection of old stuff, but I want to call attention to something, just before any more of you gripe about it.

    Look at your average age. Most of you big producers are really, really old. The smaller dudes have stable employment and are often in their late 20s and up.

    Most of the new members on this forum, and a lot of the 'older' members like me, are college students. Some might even know how to make coffee pot ramen. Even younger members still live at home ( I still do, free room+board+food while I go to college = good deal to me ) and can't justify a 30 dollar ( I guestimated my cost of folding all of my systems including air conditioner cooling coefficients, then dropped it by 10 bucks ) a month increase in their bills.

    What I suggest the frogs bemoaning their frogginess do is hop to getting electric companies to donate power to people who are running programs like this, or start up a fund that helps to pay power bills. I'd be happy to toss in my systems if we were only talking 5 dollars a month. For 30, I'm getting really close to being able to lease a nice 37 inch Insigna LCD TV from Best Buy. ( http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Insignia...2037&cp=1&lp=1 )

    Plus, if I get the TV, I cut down on my power usage, don't deal with frog drama ( frogma? ), and finally get to get off of an old 19 inch CRT as my television.

    So, seriously, you guys are asking people to spend monthly what it would cost to lease a new television for a non-profit 'for honor' cause. It needs to look like a party. You need to be having hardware drawings for active participants, or at the very least software drawings. ( How about 'Get X number of points, get a ( chance to win a ) free copy of game Y'? )
    My heatware

    All students need to check out www.dreamspark.com

    Proudly NOT a console or subscription/micropayment gamer.

  2. #2
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Central Virginia, USA
    Age
    70
    Posts
    5,302

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    Interesting ideas WR!

    Why F@H?? Click me!
    As of 07/28/11
    Oz1a v2.0 >> XFX MDA72P7509 750a, PI X2 8870BE, 2 x XFX GTS250, WD 250GB, F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK, Tt TR2 600W, XP Pro SP3

  3. #3
    Joined
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,656

    Thumbs down Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    Typical young generation answer to a problem, give me something. If you can afford it crunch, if not then no big deal.
    "mmmmmm..........beer" Homer J. Simpson
    "mmmmmm...........Hofbräu Dunkel" Tek


  4. #4
    Joined
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,926

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    Crunch? This terminology both confuses and intrigues me. *Blank stare*

    The thing is this place has felt more like a funeral home and less like a bar/party/etc. Get the lights moving, the music going, and provide some entertainment. You could even look at getting sponsorships. Bug some hole-in-the-wall tech sites. Find other places with frog logos, hell, go bug buddweiser. Send a diplomatic note.

    You'd be amazed what companies are doing to get customers these days. BFG is ramping down GPU production, maybe they have a bunch of stuff they haven't sent out yet? E-mail them!

    Speaking of music, you could bother woot.com about amazon gift cards, woot just sold out to amazon and might have contacts there.

    Heard of Beowulf, the freshly launched digital game distributor? http://www.beowulfworld.com/ Neither has anyone else, yet. Contacting them may be beneficial to both of us. They have games, we have people.

    Anyway, that's just a few random ideas for you if you want a young generation answer. Most of 'em will say no, but Beowulf is looking for advertisers and I am a member of one of their partner organizations...
    My heatware

    All students need to check out www.dreamspark.com

    Proudly NOT a console or subscription/micropayment gamer.

  5. #5
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Central Virginia, USA
    Age
    70
    Posts
    5,302

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    Quote Originally Posted by Windrunner View Post
    Crunch? This terminology both confuses and intrigues me. *Blank stare*
    "Number crunching" is the phrase, as in looking for ALFs or folding.......

    Why F@H?? Click me!
    As of 07/28/11
    Oz1a v2.0 >> XFX MDA72P7509 750a, PI X2 8870BE, 2 x XFX GTS250, WD 250GB, F2-8500CL5D-2GBPK, Tt TR2 600W, XP Pro SP3

  6. #6
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    11,092

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    You sound like a marketing major lol. I hear what you're saying about trying to attract new people by enticing them in... but frankly if you're the kind of person whos deciding between leasing a tv and giving somebody a new lease on life, then the decision is up to you (help sick people or help yourself). We can't just bribe people into folding because theres no incentive to keep doing it past that initial gift. What happens if we all donate money and some guy just comes in, claims to want to fold forever, and then walks off with the donation? Maybe I'm being a bit cynical here, but I've been folding for 6+ years here and I'm only 22. I didn't need a bribe and I'd hate to see our community cheapened like that.


    Trust me, I do science
    My Hardware, Past and Present

  7. #7
    Joined
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,926

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    Activate: AMD, is The Pond a Funeral Pond, hospital waiting room pond, or a party pond? I'm looking for a fun group, I'm going to the party.

    I also already volunteer to help people with disability in my community - some with the same disabilities folding targets. Trying to guilt me ( or other people ) is going to alienate me ( or other people ), not get me ( or other people ) to fold.

    Who cares if they only fold 5 or 6 workunits to get into a raffle? You get 20 people who do it and all of them disappear afterwords that's 100-120 work units done and possibly a person that sticks around afterwords. Check out PCper's Just Cause 2 giveaway. If all of those people folded a few workunits, what would that do for the pond?

    Heck, raffle off half of a month's power bill paid in full for folding for a month.
    My heatware

    All students need to check out www.dreamspark.com

    Proudly NOT a console or subscription/micropayment gamer.

  8. #8
    Joined
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Anywhere but here.
    Posts
    4,510

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    Why do you think the EVGA folding team has so many members? They give out EVGA bucks as a reward for folding that can be used to get EVGA merchandise among other promotions. http://www.evga.com/folding/promo.asp How many of those folders would be folding at all without the promotions is anyone's guess, but I do know that several people I know are folding for them instead of their home forum simply for the promotions. One in particular is only folding until he gets enough of the EVGA bucks to get a new video card and then intends to quit. I'm not particularly fond of that approach, but it is a reality. Unfortunately a forum like this simply does not have the resources for those types or promotions on an ongoing basis. Ryan has made motherboards and vid cards available to folders in the past and may do so in the future, but as far as I'm concerned if that's why you are folding then why bother.
    Last edited by MrNovi; 08-02-2010 at 11:32 PM.
    R.I.P Brad (BWM). You will be missed.

  9. #9
    Joined
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,926

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    Okay, long, inflammatory post pre-deleted.

    Ryan's recruited a number of new people onto the site lately, right? Not all of them have stayed.

    How many new frogs have joined from the new members Ryan's brought onto the site?

    If you asked a number of people off the street if they'd throw 360 dollars a year into double checking Stanford's research that may or may not be curing cancer, and heat their homes in the summer, with no other benefits what would their reaction be?

    ( P.S., if I had this much money to help with my service dogs and medical bills, I would have been able to get my MRI much sooner and be done with the neurosurgeon already. This would mean I was able to take more than one class this coming semester and be closer to finishing my AS to start on the road to my double major in CS/EE and graduating to go and work for a company and advance computing technology as we know it. )

    Why does it matter if people are folding for profit or not? They're still contributing.


    Let's just look at what you're asking me personally.


    I looked at eVGA's deal. it sounds great at first, but the amount they're asking for requires a ton of hardware and a ton of electricity.


    Let's do the math for me personally carefully, http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=467031 my main system draws 332 watts when folding.

    With my second system folding as well, I draw 462 watts. I have a two other systems built similarly to the second system that I use to fold, or did, 462-332 = 130 per system * 3 = 390Ws for all the athlon 64s

    My power supplies are both 80+ rated but are aged. 80% efficiency is a good guess. This means 20% of either 332 or 462 watts are dissipated as heat, not counting the system internals. My best guess is another 10% of the power burnt would be dissipated as heat, but that's a shot in the dark and also a convenient number to estimate to considering..

    The average home air conditioner has a 3 to 1 cooling coefficient without considering units of measurement, since watts and BTUs are both measurements of energy we can apply it directly to wattage for a rough guesstimate ( PF doesn't matter due to it being residential ) unless I am completely mistaken. This means that for every 3 watts cooled, I burn 1 watt to cool it. This means I need to increase my wattages by 10% to get my 'true' power cost. ( Note newer AC units can have 4 to 1 or even 5 to 1 coefficients. I learned this when looking at sub-ambient cooling. Btw, peltiers have .4 to 1 coefficients )


    My electricity costs 15 cents per kilowatt hour as of 2008.

    so 1000W is 15 cents
    1000/1000Wis 15/1000 cents = .015 cents per watt/hour

    The wattages:
    332 watts + ( 332*.10 ) = 365.2
    390 + ( 390*.10 ) = 429

    The costs:
    .015 cents per watt/hour * 24 hours * 30 days = 10.8 cents/mo to burn a single watt.

    (365.2 * 10.8 )watts * cents/month /100 cents= 39.44 dollars a month to run my main system only. So my 40 dollar/month guesstimate was right on the money ( I'm proud of that, actually ) Times 12 it's costing me 480 dollars a year to run this.

    To add the secondary systems in, ( 429*10.8)/100 = 46.33 dollars/month to run my secondary systems. This costs me 552 a year.

    In essence, to run all of my computers, it would cost me 86 dollars a month. This would put me on a much bigger TV than I first guessed.

    NOW! For what EVGA is giving me, I can generate about 2000 PPD with my current rig last time I glanced. I haven't looked in awhile. To get 3500PPD, I would need to increase my power bill by 75% without switching generations, to about 60 dollars a month. If I upgraded, moore's law has dropped power usage by about that much for that performance. This would mean a $1200 investment in a new computer for me, though. To get 8500PPD, that would be a 425% increase in my power bill for my generation of hardware, or about a 212% increase if I upgraded and spent more money.

    Now PLEASE point out a flaw in my math, because it looks like two people have came into this thread telling me I should want to give 1000 a year to be in a community telling me I'm a bad person for wanting to see something out of my money.

    And before anyone asks, I've started using more aggressive power saving settings on these systems and even have them going into standby now. They're also shut off at night.
    My heatware

    All students need to check out www.dreamspark.com

    Proudly NOT a console or subscription/micropayment gamer.

  10. #10
    Joined
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Janesville, Wi
    Posts
    6,416

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    Quote Originally Posted by Windrunner View Post

    Let's do the math for me personally carefully, http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php?t=467031 my main system draws 332 watts when folding.

    With my second system folding as well, I draw 462 watts. I have a two other systems built similarly to the second system that I use to fold, or did, 462-332 = 130 per system * 3 = 390Ws for all the athlon 64s

    My power supplies are both 80+ rated but are aged. 80% efficiency is a good guess. This means 20% of either 332 or 462 watts are dissipated as heat, not counting the system internals. My best guess is another 10% of the power burnt would be dissipated as heat, but that's a shot in the dark and also a convenient number to estimate to considering..



    My electricity costs 15 cents per kilowatt hour as of 2008.

    so 1000W is 15 cents
    1000/1000Wis 15/1000 cents = .015 cents per watt/hour

    The wattages:
    332 watts + ( 332*.10 ) = 365.2
    390 + ( 390*.10 ) = 429

    The costs:
    .015 cents per watt/hour * 24 hours * 30 days = 10.8 cents/mo to burn a single watt.

    (365.2 * 10.8 )watts * cents/month /100 cents= 39.44 dollars a month to run my main system only. So my 40 dollar/month guesstimate was right on the money ( I'm proud of that, actually ) Times 12 it's costing me 480 dollars a year to run this.

    To add the secondary systems in, ( 429*10.8)/100 = 46.33 dollars/month to run my secondary systems. This costs me 552 a year.

    In essence, to run all of my computers, it would cost me 86 dollars a month. This would put me on a much bigger TV than I first guessed.



    Now PLEASE point out a flaw in my math, because it looks like two people have came into this thread telling me I should want to give 1000 a year to be in a community telling me I'm a bad person for wanting to see something out of my money.

    And before anyone asks, I've started using more aggressive power saving settings on these systems and even have them going into standby now. They're also shut off at night.
    The way your math reads is that the ONLY thing these rigs would do is fold and nothing else.

    A much better way would be to measure the delta change between idle and 100% load for folding.

    I'm not going to do the math, but my guess would be closer to $5.00 to $10.00 per month in actual cost increase versus idle rigs
    Last edited by mmettin; 08-03-2010 at 01:21 PM.


  11. #11
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    sacramento,ca.
    Posts
    801

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    Actually I smell a troll here. The thing is, you fold or you don't. If you don't want to spend the money on it then don't. No one is going to try and sell you that when you come here attacking the existing members. I fold when I can afford it. I don't need a party or to have it sold to me. I am not that arrogant. I can get beat by a moderator now but its ok. I won't reply past this one comment. Go get your tv buddy and enjoy.
    Core I7/GA-EX58-UD4P
    6 gigs of ddr3 1600
    Raid 0 x2 WD 320AAKS
    4870 X2
    Silverstone 1000w Strider psu
    Thermochill PA 120.3 with dual pumps

  12. #12
    Joined
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,926

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    mmettin, The athlon 64s are shut down 90% of the time now, one only comes on when my main rig is off for the night, the other is falling into disuse because synergy+ is still a pain to get working and hibernates to disk frequently. Due to my back injury I tend to only work one system at once now, so it's only the primary system on and even it has been tweaked, I let it power the HDDs down now when not in use where I didn't used to do that.

    I'll stand by my 552/year number as the A64s are no longer on. It's likely that to start my primary system folding again it would be a cost approaching 250/year from being powered off at night and going into standby ( suspend to RAM ) when I'm afk, but having the HDDs and monitors off when folding. I suspect the HDDs were most of my power draw, but I haven't checked yet.

    @0156 and sorta to Activate:AMD

    Both of your posts were inflammatory. I responded to activate's post after noticing it hadn't been edited. ( We've all posted something we regret and edited it out before ) Being called a sales rep and 'the kind of person whos deciding between leasing a tv and giving somebody a new lease on life' may not have warranted my numerical bludgeoning and I'm sorry if my giving that bludgeoning gave me the smell of a troll.
    My heatware

    All students need to check out www.dreamspark.com

    Proudly NOT a console or subscription/micropayment gamer.

  13. #13
    Joined
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Anywhere but here.
    Posts
    4,510

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    You can save considerable power by going with newer hard drives and 2.5" laptop drives. You would only be drawing about 5 watts per drive if that much. In fact, the hard drives would be drawing the least amount of power of anything on a folding rig. Even an older hard drive would only draw about 10 watts or so.

    The monitors, especially CRT's are what draw and waste a lot of power when folding since once the client is running they don't need to be on at all.
    R.I.P Brad (BWM). You will be missed.

  14. #14
    Joined
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Age
    30
    Posts
    1,926

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    Yeah, but to get the amount of space I have now at the speeds I have now would cost a ton, even in 2TB drives. It's easier to just have mine shut down.

    I only get HDDs at Christmas as gifts unfortunately, they're too expensive for me otherwise ( after having one go bad and take critical data with it I buy them in pairs and RAID-1 them for a year )

    I use LCD monitors set to go off after 5 minutes on the A64. My CRTs stay unplugged unless I need them ( I.E. to work on the router system )
    My heatware

    All students need to check out www.dreamspark.com

    Proudly NOT a console or subscription/micropayment gamer.

  15. #15
    Joined
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Brisbane Australia
    Posts
    5,271

    Re: Hey! Froggies who are moaning the lack of members!

    Havn't seen a lot in this thread so far that would encourage anyone to participate in any DC projects, of which Folding and Stanford are only a small part, it's nice to hear that you help out in your community groups, and if you came knocking on my door for a few $$ for petrol etc to help you continue the good work I'd happily oblige, even if it wasn't a registered charity, so that I could claim back any donations at tax time,
    DC projects are similar in some ways, they have a goal, a project, and ask for help, if the project in question holds interest for you for any reason, you contribute, as much or as little as you can,
    I agree, it's a waste of time trying to "guilt" people into DC projects that have a medical goal, but I think you'll find the majority that do support such projects have done so for very personal reasons, and I sincerely hope you never have to join any such project or forum on that account,
    I agree that DC projects can be relatively expensive, and the high running costs of modern hardware has a lot to do with the decreasing numbers,
    not that long ago you could have an old, low power box dedicated to the project of choice, and lots did, and there was points racing, and banter, and the party attitude you mentioned, but sadly a lot of those were shut down as "not worth the electricity" compared to the bigger contributors, but for Folding at least, I stand by my sig.
    Last edited by Jester; 08-04-2010 at 10:47 AM.
    Fold with what you have,
    Every Work Unit can make a difference.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •