F1 2010

[Formula One]

I got this game last week when it was on sale. I have never really cared for Codemaster games, being lacking much of the things I have grown used to with from other developers. F1 2010 is no exception.
While the game is fun, in many ways, it is lacking vital things that really bring it down and hard.
The main omission would have to be the engineer audio. There is very little useful information from the engineer to the driver while in a race. The game pretty much forces players to turn on the HUD junk (killing immersion entirely).
The engineer will give a few minor updates while in a race, but never tells you the lap, rarely tells you the gap to another driver, never tells the condition of the tires, etc. The important stuff is not there at all.

You can not drive in the pits, that is entirely automatic. Selecting different tires is a shot in the dark as to whether you will actually get the tires you chose (and yes, I fully understand the two tire type rule, I am not talking about that). No live camera feed on the monitor (that I could find). Useless Instnt Replay (as it is only about 5 seconds long and no way to increase it).


The menu is clucky and has NO support for mouse use. TrackIR doesn't work well in the game. Worst I have ever experienced with any game I used it in. And I am one of the first to lobby for TIR in race sims years ago.
The game has a very low budget feel to it. No brake bias nor F-duct control while driving. Poor FFB effects (more of a rumble pad feeling through the wheel).

There is no podeum, no post race anything, really. No grid walkthrough. No track information (well a teeny tiny bit).

The game does have some good points. The AI is quite aware of the player and will give way if the player is on the correct line. The GFX are nice and the weather is pretty good. Game is stable and runs well.

I haven't bought an F1 game since F1 Challenge 99-02. I was fully expecting F1 2010 to be far and away more advanced and detailed. I was way off on my thinking. It has much less features, is lacking in nearly every respect (other than GFX) and has a totally arcade feel to it, even with every aid turned off.

I was disappointed, but for only $26.00 it wasn't a total loss. I will probably play it some, but just so put off at what is happening with games these days.
Why is it that games are less advanced nowadays than they were 5+ years ago? Why are so many losing features we had for years upon years?
I mean a game that represents the worlds most technical and expensive sport there is, feels cheap and lacking...
I am getting to point I want to hunt a new hobby. PC gaming is just going more stale every year it seems.
Who do you blame, the devs or the players? The devs for being so lazy, or the players for just accepting it?

[Activate: AMD]

Good review. I was definitely considering picking this game up since I just got a G27 wheel, but now I will think twice. While i'm not usually a "hardcore" type sim gamer, the fact that it lacks some of those advanced options is disappointing just in case I wanted to really try it. IMO the things about your review that bother me the most are the lack of engineer/pit-crew support. It really wouldn't have been that hard to implement from a technical standpoint, but it would have taken time. The fact that they didn't spend the time or effort to include it indicates that they didn't take the care I'd like to see. I enjoyed GRID, but only as a time sink. It just wasn't all that immersive, and it kind of left me feeling cold about the achievement of winning a race. Unfortunately it sounds like the exact same game as grid but with different cars. I'll probably get it, but only when its on some kind of steam fire-sale

[Formula One]

Yeah the pit engineer was the real let down for me.
You get some info, but not what is most valuable during a race.
You will hear when someone is pitting and what tires they selected (like when the track is drying you will hear such and such just put on Option tires).
You will once in a while get the gap to a driver ahead or behind, but only a couple times during a race (currently I am running 50% distance). You will be told if your engine is getting hot and also when it is in optimal temperature. Encouragement once in a while when you come up to a car. You will be told if you come up on a backmarker that he will move to let you by. You will also be told to be careful racing your team mate and to not take each other out.
It isn't terrible by no means, but with such few updates on the gap and NO update on what lap you are on (not even the last lap is told) it lacks the things I really consider important.
Now, if you don't mind having the HUD stuff on, it won't be a problem though. As you will have that info displayed. For anyone like myself that would rather have that off, well you are on your own for the most part.

If you get it on sale, it is okay. Full price is something I am glad I did not pay.
It has gotten high ratings from most players.

It is a console port, plain and simple and I doubt there is any difference at all in the pc and console version. So we pc players do not get pc feature we are used to.

The game is moddable, so someone may be able to do a better pit radio. I don't know, I am going on what all we saw for F1C back in the day. A 3rd party made a really nice pit radio for it and rFactor has the fantastic Spotter plugin that even has voice activated pit box commands, if a user so chooses to use voice rather than keys to select tires, etc.

One thing I should clear up. I believe I had been trying to select tires the wrong way. Being used to F1C and rF, I figured you highlight the tires you want and that is what you will get. I now believe you have to do this when in the pit lane for it to stick, not while on the track. So that was my mistake. I don't like the way it works though, as you have to hit different arrow keys really quickly to select them, because the onscreen popup will fade off in a couple seconds. Once one gets used to which arrow to hit for each selection, it probably works okay. But there are quite a few options to 'remember' with tires and wing adjustments. Would be better if the popup window stayed on until you confirm your choice with the Enter key or something like that. But since pit lane is automatic, you really have nothing else to be doing while the car goes to the box. That helps you to concentrate on selecting the changes you want, but still isn't ideal, imo.

I wouldn't want to turn anyone away from buying it, but if they few annoying things would bother you as they do me, it is one to get at a discount.
It is still a lot of fun to play, if you can over look the little things. In fact, I don't think they matter to most players, as I seem to be one of the only ones to mention it. But then again, I have a strong simulation background and I'm used to having things this game doesn't have.

[AMDTurbo]

Feel quite opposite here.

I've been playing F1 2010 for few weeks now and I think it's great.

1st off, let's be thankful to even have an F1 game on PC period. Let's face it, this is the first F1 game in what, 10 years?

MUCH respect to codemasters for that.

As a "more of a sim guy" that usually plays GTR 1/GTR2 and GTR Evo......I think this game is a GREAT middle ground between arcade and simulator.

All of the cons you presented are not cons to me. While I'm racing I really don't want to be adjusting ANYTHING and engineer talking to me would be annoying. All of the info I need is on the display and I think it's great. I think all of your cons are somewhat anal. Also keep in mind that right stick (I really haven't even looked into it).

I LOVE Autopit, I'm sorry but NOTHING more frustrating than having a great race and making a small mistake in the pits (ala GTR).

Don't get me wrong, I love Simulator and "realistic" but the truth is TOO realistic is not a good thing either. IMO GTR 1 was WAy too realistic, GTR2 took away from that a bit, but still maintained it....and GTR Evo was a great middle ground IMO (just like this game is).

Game has all the options I care for, and none I care less about.

I have been mostly playing with 360 controller as my Logitech Momo clamp is broke so I can't comment on that end.

I believe the latest Patch upgraded it to DX11 as well and there is also an option to do it yourself (from what I've seen). I don't have DX11 card anyways....but nice to see.

i think the game is great. I paid $40 for it and I think it's well worth it.

PS. I think mutilplayer is good as well. Game also enables you to set up y our own server (which is nice).

360 controller integration and Microsoft Live thingy is GREAT. Not really into MS stuff usually but I thought they did a great job.

CONS
- lack of split screen, but that's something I haven't needed yet.
- lack of spectate mode in Multiplayer mode (or text chat)

Thumbs up for me. I give it 5 out of 5 and I'm thankful Codemasters supported PC gamers on this one. After 10 years of 0 F1 games this is certainly welcome in my book.

[Formula One]

1st off, let's be thankful to even have an F1 game on PC period. Let's face it, this is the first F1 game in what, 10 years?
All of the cons you presented are not cons to me. While I'm racing I really don't want to be adjusting ANYTHING and engineer talking to me would be annoying. All of the info I need is on the display and I think it's great.

I think all of your cons are somewhat anal. Also keep in mind that right stick (I really haven't even looked into it).

June 2003 was the last official release on PC, prior. From the sound of it you are the classic arcader, not a simmer. HUD dispaly, don't want realistic type updates from the engineer, that is arcader, no doubt.

And just because our taste are different doesn't make my desire for a more immersive 'simulation' experience anal. F1C and the earlier ones were sims, but you could dumb them down and plaster the screen full of crap, if you wanted to. Players that were into realism had that and those that wanted arcade had that. F1 2010 doesn't have that flexibility. The lack of these features shows little thought went into the planning stage of the game. Have you ever watched a F1 race? Seen how often they change brake bias, per lap? Listened to the Pit Radio broadcast they air? What is anal about wanting that type of realism in the game? It was in F1c 7.4 years ago, why not today?
One because Codemaster has always skimped on features. That is fact.
Hopefully ISI will once again get the contract sometime in the future. Then we all can have a proper F1 sim that anyone can play in whatever fashion they wish. Simmers can enjoy it in a realistic manner and arcaders can enjoy it in their style.

no idea about what you mean "keep in mind that right stick"?

I mean heack, you are talking slip screen. It don't get more arcade than that.
So while you can enjoy your game in all it arcade glory. I can't enjoy the experience to its fullest since it is an arcade console port lacking feature to make it more sim like.

[AMDTurbo]

If you were "hard core simmer" as you make it out to be you would be playing GTR Evo and be happy (better yet GTR 1 since its the "most hard core of them all).

Before you spend your money do little research, I did and it was very clear that F1 2010 is not a sim, I knew that buying into it. But it's NOT a full arcade either. Like I said it's a GOOD median, which I happen to like.

As far as "did you ever watch F1 race", I'll be honest.....unless you are talking 80s/90s or Senna Current state of F1 is a joke (to me). I haven't watched 1 race for over 10 years+ and have absolutely 0 desire to do so.

It is simply a race of MONEY and does not involve as much skill as it used to. Once you put in a 3rd pedal into current F1 cars and get rid of all the computer garbage and limit budgets....MAYBE.

So what I'm saying is if you were "Hard core simmer" you probably wouldn't be watching F1 to begin with...cause there isn't much racing in F1 racing where it stands today. Bunch of computers doing the work and money thrown at teams....and a guy that turns the wheel.

Most car enthusiasts know this and consider F1 sport in general as "Arcadish"

[Activate: AMD]

No need to go attacking each now! I think Formula One is just expressing his disappointment at the omission of some more serious sim features, and I tend to agree with him. I mean, make the default mode more arcade-like with driver assists and HUD's, but why not have a more serious mode to try to emulate real F1 driving more closely? I think we've got every right to be disappointed that the first F1 game in a long time doesn't have these features, even as an option. Its a GOOD median FOR YOU, but with so many Need For Speed games out there, it wouldn't hurt to have something a little more sim and a little less Arcade

[AMDTurbo]

First off I'm not attacking.

I'm sorry but no "Engineer sound" or "auto pit stop" does not make the game "Arcade like".

You can turn off just about every option you want within the game (Traction control, brake assist, ABS etc) and make it as much of a sim as you would like.

Things he is talking about are minor game design flaws....NOTHING to do with actual driving characteristics or dynamics (which are pretty darn good IMO).



I dare you to turn all of those off and even complete a lap. Game play ITSELF is as much simulation as you would like it to be. Choice is in your hands/within options.

[Formula One]

Most car enthusiasts know this and consider F1 sport in general as "Arcadish"

Flaw.
If that was true, it wouldn't be the worlds most popular form of auto racing.

Anyway, we all know the game is arcade, I knew that, but that doesn't mean it can't have features that most pc race games have, especially since it is representing the worlds pinnacle of motorsports. The games prior had it.
Codemaster games have always been like this though, so it wasn't a total surprise. I did figure with the F1 contract they would pull out all the stops. Sadly, it is much the same as all their other titles.
And there is no denying that leaving out vital information via audio (forcing players to use HUD) was an oversight. Poor planning, or just not thought about. Either way it was a let down.

I did beta testing for GTR (glad you think it was good ).
I worked with CTDP testing tires and engine curves.
I helped with and tested TIR in F1C.
I worked with Eric Bailey getting TrackIR in LFS.
I worked with Gjon Camaj of ISI getting TrackIR into rFactor.
I was involved with testing of ACTC.
There are others I can add to the list.

You are trying to con somebody with far more experience in this field than you know.

[AMDTurbo]

Flaw.
If that was true, it wouldn't be the worlds most popular form of auto racing.

With your theory, Toyota Camry makes the best car...cause it sells the most.

Come on now.

Popular or sales numbers DO NOT dictate if something is great or not. Simple as that. IF ANYTHING, in most cases....quite the reverse (from my own experiance).

Anyway, we all know the game is arcade,

I dont agree. The points you brought up do NOT make it arcade.

IMO it's not an arcade, but not a sim either. Its something in between.

Please tell me what makes it "arcade"

I knew that, but that doesn't mean it can't have features that most pc race games have, especially since it is representing the worlds pinnacle of motorsports. The games prior had it.
Codemaster games have always been like this though, so it wasn't a total surprise. I did figure with the F1 contract they would pull out all the stops. Sadly, it is much the same as all their other titles.
And there is no denying that leaving out vital information via audio (forcing players to use HUD) was an oversight. Poor planning, or just not thought about. Either way it was a let down.

I still think its an extremely small thing that I havent even thought about/noticed until you brought it up.

I did beta testing for GTR (glad you think it was good ).
I worked with CTDP testing tires and engine curves.
I helped with and tested TIR in F1C.
I worked with Eric Bailey getting TrackIR in LFS.
I worked with Gjon Camaj of ISI getting TrackIR into rFactor.
I was involved with testing of ACTC.
There are others I can add to the list.

You are trying to con somebody with far more experience in this field than you know.

Your experiance doesn't go hand in hand with the fact that you are labeling a game "arcade" because of lack of pit crew communication. Give me a GOOD reason and I will agree....

con?

Not trying to con you, I just don't feel that one can label a game "arcade" based on your minor dislikes/claims. I'm sorry.

Sim/Arcade is determined by driving dynamics and physics in the game....not pit crew communication.

And let's face it, even the best of the best sims out there have similar "unrealistic" arcadish flaws.

NO GAME IS PERFECT, F1 2010 is no exception but its closer to perfection then ANY OTHER F1 PC game.

I know quite few people that play this game and they all like it.

[Keven]

I like F1 2010 and think it's fun.

[Formula One]

I am not calling it arcade because it doesn't have good pit comms. I never once said that. I said that is a feature that is lacking proper information and near useless as it is.

It is arcade because it doesn't fit into what would make it a simulation.
AI takes control of your car = arcade
Car setup options do not match those of the real cars = arcade
Missing controls = arcade
Too easy to reach realistic lap times = arcade
People can drive it quickly with a hand held gamepad = arcade

There have only been a few people say it isn't arcade, but likely because they are trying to boost their ego. This game is arcade. It doesn't compare with simulators.

IRL, we see how difficult a real F1 car is to drive everytime a professional driver gets in one that has never driven an F1 car before. They often spin the car, are well off pace when they do happen to get in a clean lap and all come back saying how shocked they were with how easy it was for the car to get away from them. That is fact, that is real life and this game doesn't mimick that,,, thus it is arcade, not simulation.

There is no learning curve with the game. Just jump in a go fast. That is arcade. Compare it to sims and the steep learning curve they have.
The phsyics in F1 2010 is dumbed down for the causal gamer, even with every aid turned off. That is arcade.

That doesn't mean the game isn't fun, in fact most people would not think it so fun if it was a sim. They would find it frustrating, just like many did with the old F1 series with aids off. 1000's upon 1000's talking about how difficult it was to drive it, even with TC on (the real cars had TC during from during those years, except for 1999). You couldn't just jump in a go fast. In F1 2010 you can and that is exactly what arcade is. Instant quick laps due to unrealistic physics.

There really is no in between. A game either has simulator physics or it doesn't. If it doesn't, it is arcade. F1 2010 falls into the arcade racer genre because it doesn't have simulator physics.
You can put a body kit on a Fiero, but that doesn't make it a Ferrari.

EDIT:

NO GAME IS PERFECT, F1 2010 is no exception but its closer to perfection then ANY OTHER F1 PC game.

That statement is totally false. rFactor is a ture simulator. F1 series by ISI were simulators. Real race teams use a build of rFactor for data and practice. rFactor works with MoTec (real world telemetry software). With more advanced code and pc power we will see ever more fidelity with rFactor 2, but rF1 is indeed a simulator and the earlier F1 series were simulators too. But F1 2010 just doesn't have the physics to be in that genre. And we probably will not see a new F1 Simulator until a 'sim' developer gets the contract, or a good mod team makes a mod for rF2.

[AMDTurbo]

I am not calling it arcade because it doesn't have good pit comms. I never once said that. I said that is a feature that is lacking proper information and near useless as it is.

It is arcade because it doesn't fit into what would make it a simulation.
AI takes control of your car = arcade

In pits ONLY, no big deal. I believe even GTR had an option to enable/disable that.

Car setup options do not match those of the real cars = arcade

There is TONS of options to set BEFORE you go qualifying/racing.

Missing controls = arcade

WHat controls?

Too easy to reach realistic lap times = arcade

NO VIDEO GAME has realistic lap times. Game is a game.

People can drive it quickly with a hand held gamepad = arcade

Controller or wheel it doesn't matter. I played GTR with controller and was quick as well.

There have only been a few people say it isn't arcade, but likely because they are trying to boost their ego. This game is arcade. It doesn't compare with simulators.

IRL, we see how difficult a real F1 car is to drive everytime a professional driver gets in one that has never driven an F1 car before. They often spin the car, are well off pace when they do happen to get in a clean lap and all come back saying how shocked they were with how easy it was for the car to get away from them. That is fact, that is real life and this game doesn't mimick that,,, thus it is arcade, not simulation.

No "Simulator" GAME mimicks ANYTHING realistic. At the end of the day its still a game and has absolutely NOTHING to do with reality.

There is no learning curve with the game. Just jump in a go fast. That is arcade. Compare it to sims and the steep learning curve they have..

Not true, I've jumped into MANY "Sims" and did well off the bat. Don't agree with you there.There is no science to pressing gas and turning.

[QUOTE=Formula One;4475080The phsyics in F1 2010 is dumbed down for the causal gamer, even with every aid turned off. That is arcade. [/QUOTE]

I didn't think so. Turn off the Aids and the game gets pretty darn hard QUICKLY.

That doesn't mean the game isn't fun, in fact most people would not think it so fun if it was a sim. They would find it frustrating, just like many did with the old F1 series with aids off. 1000's upon 1000's talking about how difficult it was to drive it, even with TC on (the real cars had TC during from during those years, except for 1999). You couldn't just jump in a go fast. In F1 2010 you can and that is exactly what arcade is. Instant quick laps due to unrealistic physics.

Go play some Multiplayer and tell me how you do. I've played for 5+ hours and have not even come close to winning ANY races.

Have you even tried multiplayer?

Also with no aids I cannot even finish the race......its HARD

There really is no in between. A game either has simulator physics or it doesn't. If it doesn't, it is arcade. F1 2010 falls into the arcade racer genre because it doesn't have simulator physics.
You can put a body kit on a Fiero, but that doesn't make it a Ferrari.

Yeah, but you can put an LS1 into Fiero and be faster than Ferrari : D

EDIT:
That statement is totally false. rFactor is a ture simulator. F1 series by ISI were simulators. Real race teams use a build of rFactor for data and practice. rFactor works with MoTec (real world telemetry software). With more advanced code and pc power we will see ever more fidelity with rFactor 2, but rF1 is indeed a simulator and the earlier F1 series were simulators too. But F1 2010 just doesn't have the physics to be in that genre. And we probably will not see a new F1 Simulator until a 'sim' developer gets the contract, or a good mod team makes a mod for rF2.

Can't say I disagree there, HOWEVER Simulator and "too realistic" also takes away from FUN. And Gaming is about FUN not about "as close to real life as possible".....if you want real life, get yourself a race car and go out there and race. NO game or sim will EVER even come REMOTELY close to that.

[Activate: AMD]

Can't say I disagree there, HOWEVER Simulator and "too realistic" also takes away from FUN. And Gaming is about FUN not about "as close to real life as possible".....if you want real life, get yourself a race car and go out there and race. NO game or sim will EVER even come REMOTELY close to that.

This is your OPINION and you're entitled to it. The fact that its not a sim was a disappointment to him, and hes entitled to that opinion. whats FUN for YOU isn't whats FUN for everyone and there are lots of people out there who have sim hobbies. Whats wrong with that? its a FACT that this game makes concessions that don't exist in many more hardcore games. Codemasters did it to increase the appeal to people like you. If thats how he want to define "arcade" then fine. Your definition of an "arcade" game might be more like NFS. Its all semantics! Why are you arguing over the fact that features are missing? they ARE missing. Do you care? NO, do others? YES.

My feeling is, why set a ceiling at all? Why NOT have the options to make it as hardcore as you want? Are most people going to use them? of course not, but a subset of very dedicated fans will be really really happy and keep your game alive for years down the road. Have the middle ground settings in the game, and also have the stuff that makes it nearly impossible to actually play all in the same game!

[Formula One]

My feeling is, why set a ceiling at all? Why NOT have the options to make it as hardcore as you want?

Yes, exactly (well your entire post was spot on).
The PC F1 series used to be exactly like you described. Even reconnaissance and formation laps could be used. Full manual pitting. No need for hud stuff, radio would tell you what you needed to know (was improved further with a mod, but stilll offered the info one needed in the default game).

Being the official software rep of the most technologically advanced form of motor racing, I was really hoping for more, not less than what we had 7 years ago.

But hey, I am playing it and I am having fun. I just can't enjoy it the way I would prefer. And yes, I know I am amoung the minority that would like to have seen it more like the old games of the series were. You might be surprised at how many people did enjoy full realistic (as possible) race weekends with the old F1 series. Many leagues used full settings with the recon/formation, 100% everything. Many still do with rFactor and the various F1 mods. Weather is missing though, but most everything else can be used.

Missing controls, I already mentioned them. No live brake bias (and yes, I adjust my bias while driving in EA's F1 and in rF) and the F-duct.
F1 2010 has neither.
It has very simplified setup options in the garage as well.

I knew what F1 2010 was before I bought it, but I did not know some things just are not what they should have been for a pc game.
Most all (actually I believe it IS all) racing games that are ports are ego boosters. Even in their hardest level, it is too easy to reach or even go beyond realistic times. The games are designed to make the player feel good and think they are the master of the art. Only PC exclusive simulators will humble a player anymore. Games designed for all platforms rarely offer this.
I was hurt to find F1 2010 was a direct port without many of the features the old sims had. Truthfully, I was kind of feeling it might not live up to my expectations, because I have played other games by Codemasters. But I honestly didn't expect it to be quite so far under what I thought it would be.

But like I have said, I can have fun with it, I just don't take it as seriously as I would have like to. And for that reason I am glad I didn't pay full price for it.
Now if it had of been exactly what I was hoping for, I would have gladly paid $100.00+ for it.
And I figure most people that are like me would probably not want to buy the game at full price either. If I am not mistaken, the console version cost $10.00 more than the PC version(?) I would have rather paid the extra $10.00 to have a real pc game than to pay $10.00 less and just get a direct port. Others probably don't see it that way, but given the choice, I bet many would.

I won't reply to every one of your statements Turbo. I will say, with authority, you clearly don't know the difference between a simulators code and that of an arcade game. They are vastly different. Race teams would not invest in them (simulators) if they were not accurate. Simulators were around long before the public had access to them, like we do nowadays. The PC brought them into our homes, but simualtion code was being developed years before we got to play them.
I mean think about it. Something must be working right, or MoTec couldn't make any sense of it