The 2012 Election Thread

[Keven]

Romney would have to come alloooong way to get my vote in the national election. Even though Paul as secretary of the treasury would be a beautiful thing. It wouldnt be enough to get my vote come November.

I think Romney would be a good president. No, he's not a Ron Paul, but I think he'd be a good enough "stop gap" president until we can get America to consider a reformer like a Paul Ryan or Rand Paul in 2016/2020. I would throw Marco Rubio in that list though you don't like him. America needs another 4 to 8 years to get used to the concept that we need drastic reforms to America's bloated insolvent federal government.

[Invictus]

I know how you feel about Paul, but he has never been higher than 3rd place in any polls nor had more than 25% of support of the party in national polls. It's clear to me that Paul's foreign policy views alienate him from 3/4ths of Republican voters. And, as you all know, I have grave concerns that Paul will not appeal to moderates and liberals in a general election.

It's also clear that Romney can't close to deal and win this election. He's been a front-runner for months, but can't seem to overcome the likes of Cain, Bachmann, Perry, Gingrich and now Santorum.

It looks like we're headed for a contested convention down in Tampa with nobody having enough delegates to seal the deal, and that's good for nobody except Obama (see DNC convention in Chicago, 1968 - opened the door for Nixon to win easily).

Paul throws in with Romney at the convention and takes a senior cabinet position. He then uses the next 4/8 years to promote his ideas, then uses his war chest and microphone to promote a Rand Paul run at the top job in 2016 or 2020.

Better then 3rd in any polls? What polls? He wins lots of polls. Last time we debated him winning straw polls you said that they did not matter. CNN reported last night that he is a close 2nd to Romney in the delegate race. The race is far from decided.

For me to vote for Romney he would have to agree to a full audit of the FED and start the return of our country to a debt free monetary system. A full repeal of the patriot act, Obama care and certain parts of the NDAA. As well as ending federal involvement in issues that should be decided by the states.

There are many many other things i disagree with him on, including foreign policy. But if he did these things, i could vote for him...provided it came on a Romney/Paul ticket

[Keven]

Better then 3rd in any polls? What polls? He wins lots of polls. Last time we debated him winning straw polls you said that they did not matter. CNN reported last night that he is a close 2nd to Romney in the delegate race. The race is far from decided.

How many states has Ron Paul won during this primary season?

......

He has a lot of support but I think it's clear that the good doctor cannot convince any majority of Republican voters to support him.

i could vote for him...provided it came on a Romney/Paul ticket

lol. I think Paul would be more interested in being Treasury Sec or Chairman of the Federal Reserve rather than VP. As you guys know, the VP has very little constitutional authority. Just to be the tiebreaker vote in the US Senate if it's tied 50-50. The other constitutional duty of the VP is to replace the president if he dies. The last two VPs (Cheney, Biden) have acted as senior advisers to the Pres, but there's no reason that Romney (or Gingrich/Santorum for that matter) would let VP Paul have a major role in policy decisions at the White House.

But if Paul was Treasury Sec or Chairman of the Fed, he would have a lot more direct authority over issues that are important to him.

My two cents on this.

[Invictus]

How many states has Ron Paul won during this primary season?

......

He has a lot of support but I think it's clear that the good doctor cannot convince any majority of Republican voters to support him.



lol. I think Paul would be more interested in being Treasury Sec or Chairman of the Federal Reserve rather than VP. As you guys know, the VP has very little constitutional authority. Just to be the tiebreaker vote in the US Senate if it's tied 50-50. The other constitutional duty of the VP is to replace the president if he dies. The last two VPs (Cheney, Biden) have acted as senior advisers to the Pres, but there's no reason that Romney (or Gingrich/Santorum for that matter) would let VP Paul have a major role in policy decisions at the White House.

But if Paul was Treasury Sec or Chairman of the Fed, he would have a lot more direct authority over issues that are important to him.

My two cents on this.

He has done better then 3rd during this nomination. But we have discussed how his placing in these "straw polls" really does not matter. We are not a democracy.

But i retract what i said, if Romney appoints Paul to chairman of the FED. I might could vote for him. He could effectively enact a large majority of his policies via his position at the FED. I still worry about personal liberties under a Romney presidency. Remember he supported all aspects of the NDAA. Im more concerned about our own government then i am about countries like Iran.

Though as ive said before, this race is far from over. And right now the only person within striking distance of Romney once delegates are considered is Paul.

[Keven]

He has done better then 3rd during this nomination. But we have discussed how his placing in these "straw polls" really does not matter. We are not a democracy.

But i retract what i said, if Romney appoints Paul to chairman of the FED. I might could vote for him. He could effectively enact a large majority of his policies via his position at the FED. I still worry about personal liberties under a Romney presidency. Remember he supported all aspects of the NDAA. Im more concerned about our own government then i am about countries like Iran.

Though as ive said before, this race is far from over. And right now the only person within striking distance of Romney once delegates are considered is Paul.

But, come on now. Romney would be better than Santorum, who wants to stick his nose into everybody's bedroom and make sure husband and wife are sleeping in their own twin beds on the opposite sides of the room like I Love Lucy and the same Santorum who apparently believes that the Devil is an actual physical threat to the United States. And Romney is certainly better than the fat ••••••• Gingrich who just is running for president so he can sell five more books.

I don't think a contested convention is good for anybody and I think if we head to Tampa in August with no one single candidate having enough delegates to secure this thing, that gives Obama a huge advantage.

[Invictus]

But, come on now. Romney would be better than Santorum, who wants to stick his nose into everybody's bedroom and make sure husband and wife are sleeping in their own twin beds on the opposite sides of the room like I Love Lucy and the same Santorum who apparently believes that the Devil is an actual physical threat to the United States. And Romney is certainly better than the fat ••••••• Gingrich who just is running for president so he can sell five more books.

I don't think a contested convention is good for anybody and I think if we head to Tampa in August with no one single candidate having enough delegates to secure this thing, that gives Obama a huge advantage.

The frothy one has no chance at all. Its disturbing to me that people actually vote for Santorum. Gingrich is a bloviating pos.

Romney though, is really not all that different from the other candidates or even Obama for that matter. They agree on most issues except Obama care. Romney thinks it should be done at a state level and Obama at a federal. Other then that, there are effectively the same person.

Romney has no chance against Obama on his own. And i dont think he will come far enough to get the 20-25% of republicans and the majority of independents that are currently supporting Paul. If Paul agrees to to a cabinet position under Romney with his current positions on issues, he will lose a large portion of his support.

I cant see it happening.

[Keven]

The frothy one has no chance at all. Its disturbing to me that people actually vote for Santorum.

I dunno. Santorum's on quite the roll. If he wins Michigan and then Arizona, it's all over.

[AMDScooter]

It well known their camps have been talking to each other.

But considering that you didnt watch the debate.You wouldn't understand the context of the question. Santorum was destroyed by them. With both avoiding mention of each other. It was a little more ovbious then it has been.

I was hoping some one would chime in with there opinion on the what and why of it.

My support for Ron Paul is because of his positions. If he were to run under Romney's current platform. I would not vote for him. He has said publicly this is not something he could do either.

I did not need to watch the debate as the non-aggression pact between the two camps has been known for some time now. If RP was such a stalwart defender of his positions and not just another politician.. why would he be cooperating with Romney and not attacking him equally? The question answers itself.

[Keven]

http://www.nbc.com/the-tonight-show/...121612/1374360

Ron Paul when he was on The Tonight Show last December. Leno asked him to give opinions on the other candidates. Paul was pretty rough on a few of them, but not so mean on Romney. Hmmmm.

[Invictus]

I dunno. Santorum's on quite the roll. If he wins Michigan and then Arizona, it's all over.

He was booed repeatedly last night during the debate. I expect his poll numbers to drop in the next few days. Not to mention, in reality he is last in the delegate race and the least capable of them all at beating Obama. He isnt going anywhere imo.

[Invictus]

I did not need to watch the debate as the non-aggression pact between the two camps has been known for some time now. If RP was such a stalwart defender of his positions and not just another politician.. why would he be cooperating with Romney and not attacking him equally? The question answers itself.

You needed to watch it for the context of my statement which was made regarding the debate last night.

Why are we arguing about this ?

And to address your question. His positions have not changed at all. Something you would know if you watched the debate instead of arguing about content you did not see. Oddly enough the other candidates are sounding more and more like Paul and even agreeing with him often during the debates.

[Keven]

I'm watching the debate now. I'll give my opinions, after I watch it!

[Keven]

My raw unedited notes from the debate:


- Wow, Gingrich promises $2.50/gal gasoline in the first minute of the debate. He better hope if he's elected president that it hits that mark.
- I want to punch Santorum in the mouth.
- Santorum defending earmarks and pork spending. How does anybody vote for this joker?
- Wow, what a bitch fight this is between these four goofs.
- I liked everybody's answers on the contraceptive/ObamaCare issue.
- Everybody is doing good except Santorum.
- Paul sounded weak on the issue of Iran.
- I like Ron Paul telling CNN's John King "no, I get one minute, not a moment John." LOL.
- LOL at Santorum lecturing the auidence. "Politics is a team sport, folks." Lecture the crowd, that'll get the votes, Santorum.

My scorecard of the performance

Romney: A- Defended his positions well, defended against the flip flopping allegations, and never really let Santorum go on the offensive against him.

Paul: B I like everything he's saying, mostly. Comes off weak on Iran. But, he still has an inability to explain his policy opinions in a way the Republican voters or even most Americans can digest.

Gingrich: C Another good performance debate from Gingrich. Too bad he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. I don't know how he can say he supports all this oil and nautral gas production in the United States when just a few years ago he was a green energy wind and solar guy. His promise of $2.50/gal gas under a Gingrich presidency is the kind of promise that comes back to bite politicans in the ass. "Read my lips, no new taxes", anybody?

Santorum: D- Looked like an idiot, spend the whole time defending earmarks, government pork and goverment waste. He couldn't make anything stick against Romney and Paul played him, too. How did this clown win all those states back to back?

[Invictus]

^^^
I agree with most of your observations.

I wish i could run up on stage sometimes and explain things for Paul. Its frustrating to hear him espouse the correct positions. But not be able to explain it in a way that the average voter will understand.

[Invictus]

Doug Wead addresses the Romney/Paul alliance. Says there isnt one. Short video 4 min long.