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  1. #31
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    but it should be noted that increases were also observed before the accident in the affected areas. Moreover, a general increase in mortality has been reported in recent decades in most areas of the former Soviet Union, and this must be taken into account when interpreting the results of the accident-related studies.

    Then what caused the spike in cancers prior to the Chernobyl accident?
    As Enmore said; The nuclear power industry has a long history of cover ups. And as I aksed before: I wonder how many unreported accidents occur.
    Chernobyl did not have containment vessels which is INSANE. So without containment vessels. How would you contain the radiation whenever there is a spike?


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  2. #32
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    I don't know if that needs the description of "totally screwed" but I imagine that would be a close one.

    Nuclear power can be very safe, if proper precautions are taken and followed.

    It seems to me that whatever energy option comes up, somebody has a hissy fit about said method.
    "Oh noes, we can't drill, bad for the environment."
    "Oh noes, we can't use nuclear reactors, we'll all get radiation poison and die!!!!1111"
    "Oh noes, we can't use wind power, birds will get sucked in and hacked up by the blades."

    etc.

    We're shooting ourselves in the foot.
    Repeatedly.

    To hell with electric cars if you want to carry many people. I can't consider an electric car if I happen to end up with a third kid. Where's the electric mini-van? We don't have this stuff in place, yet the current form of energy most used is having its supply thinned out. I barely drive anywhere but to and from work, so how the hell am I to cut back? A closer home would end up costing more in mortgage payments than the cost of gas itself. I'm looking at a different vehicle, but I'm not going to be able to get one until next year.

    I'm not the only one here.
    No, we shouldn't just madly rip apart the earth. However, I thought we had low-impact techniques for drilling. We're getting oil from an area of the world that, last I checked, didn't harbor the warm-fuzzies for the US.

    We're pushing away from being energy independent, and I don't feel the administration grasps this. I know President Obama wants the market to recover, and by holding back the energy industry, he's not helping himself politically or popularly.

    We should certainly look to move away from fossil fuels. If for nothing else, we're all aware they will end. But, we also need to keep in mind what's in effect now and not hamstring that.

  3. #33
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinC939 View Post

    Then what caused the spike in cancers prior to the Chernobyl accident?


    Essentially, the economy there. The economy was collapsing during the last days of communism, resulting in increasing poverty. Since poverty always results in worse health, unsurprisingly the average age of death was falling before the accident, and for a while after, across the whole (ex-)USSR. I believe it has stabilised since, and risen slightly. But the first years of capitalism were even worse.


    M
    Last edited by Meridian; 03-17-2011 at 08:27 PM.

  4. #34
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinC939 View Post
    But where do these facts come from?

    I'm sure they'll blow sunshine up everybody's ass and tell everyone about all of the great things they do so that a nuclear meltdown will NEVER EVER HAPPEN.
    And in a perfect world, I'm sure a nuclear meltdown really is impossible. I read that there were no "official" deaths caused by the Three Mile Island" event, but dependent studies have shown a spike in cancer and infant mortality rates. In today's world of bought politicians, rubber stamp organizations, and sound byte media. I'm left to wonder how many unreported nuclear accidents occur. I honestly don't think you can trust in people to do the right thing when big money, and big government is involved. Given the fact that nuclear radiation is mostly undetectable without special equipment and that it takes decades for cancer induced radiation to manifest. Alot of these plants could be off the hook for health problems that they took part in creating.
    People aren't perfect, people will take shortcuts and accidents will happen as with any industry. But the point is that the repercussions of a nuclear disaster are among the worst to be had.

    Who knows what Fukushima will become. Maybe I'm too cynical for my age, but hearing people say that this will never top Chernobyl only leads me to believe that it will.
    If only we could build a coal powered plant here in Colorado, and not have to worry about the extreme slight chance of a nuclear power plant disaster. We have a HUGE supply of cheap coal from up north in Wyoming. Honestly there's no real reason we shouldn't be building a new coal fired plant here but...those days went bye bye though once BO and Co got in. Coal plants create global warming doncha know so we have to go with the only thing that will currently produce the electricity we need and not produce greenhouse gases. That of course is nuclear. Solar panels and windmills aren't going to cut it.

    Heh, it's kind of amusing Justin. You voted for BO and I didn't, yet I agree with him on nuclear being a good, safe energy source yet you don't. Of course I voted for Bush the first time around and didn't agree with half the stuff he did so I digress.

    As a side note, I was driving down I-25 today and got stuck in traffic directly next to one of the nuclear waste transporting semis. Sitting 10 feet away from one of those gigantic containment devices, I have to admit that even with my pro-nuclear power stance, I was happy to get away from it. Knowing that those are going through town all the time doesn't exactly thrill me either, but as of now, there's just not any other choice.
    “Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

    ― George Orwell, 1984

  5. #35
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    The way I look at it there’s just too damn many “what ifs” in today’s politically correct world. The government, media, environmentalists and the pc have everybody so frigging paranoid they’re afraid of everything and anything that doesn’t have a stamp of approval from some government agency and Oprah Winfrey.

    This country is in a terminally stagnant state of affairs with little hope of reversing course.
    Last edited by tucker; 03-17-2011 at 10:38 PM.

  6. #36
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    The political chickening out process has already began:

    Nuclear power plants shut down in Germany

    Germany has temporarily shut down seven of its nuclear reactors while it reconsiders its nuclear strategy.

    Chancellor Angela Merkel said that all reactors operational before 1980 would be taken offline, and safety checks carried out on the remaining plants.

    The move comes after concerns about radiation leaks at a Japanese plant after last Friday's earthquake.

    The EU has also reached agreement on "stress tests" of all European nuclear facilities.

    "We want to look at the risk and safety issues in the light of events in Japan," the European energy commissioner Guenther Oettinger said.

    'Out of service'

    Chancellor Merkel also pointed to the safety concerns behind the German move.

    "In light of the situation, we will carry out a safety check of all nuclear plants," she said.

    "Those nuclear power plants which began operation before 1980 will be provisionally shut down for the duration of the moratorium. They will be out of service.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12745899

  7. #37
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    Is it just me or do some of you notice the strange similarities between the Japanese nuke plants and the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico? Both had private contractors running the clean-up and both seemed to be trying half-arsed things to fix it that seemed to take forever and made little progress. Both were filled with mis-information and of course, both had the same nimrods making news updates on-site that didn't know jack.

  8. #38
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    Yes, and both were/are trying something which had never been done before and is very difficult. And while it may have looked half-arsed, the people doing the work in both cases probably know far more about the job than anyone else, especially the TV and newspaper commentators who try to big the story up. The main problem in Japan is not the reactors, but the nonsense the press is talking about them.


    M

  9. #39
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    I've always said they should let the journalists run things for a while. Then we'd see what a real screw up looks like.

  10. #40
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Meridian View Post
    Yes, and both were/are trying something which had never been done before and is very difficult. And while it may have looked half-arsed, the people doing the work in both cases probably know far more about the job than anyone else, especially the TV and newspaper commentators who try to big the story up. The main problem in Japan is not the reactors, but the nonsense the press is talking about them.


    M

    Keep in mind that the gulf oil spill clean up is not really a clean up effort. They are basically spraying a flocculant on the oil so it will coagulate the oil and sink to the bottom of the gulf. Not to mention that the flocculant being used is rather hazardous in of itself.


    I think Japan really is trying their best in every way possible to contain the disaster at Fukushima. But what they are doing at this point seems like a last ditch effort of desperation to postpone the inevitable. I feel that the media is in someways downplaying the possible scenarios to avoid inciting a panic.
    Last edited by JustinC939; 03-18-2011 at 06:57 AM.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  11. #41
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip View Post

    Heh, it's kind of amusing Justin. You voted for BO and I didn't, yet I agree with him on nuclear being a good, safe energy source yet you don't. Of course I voted for Bush the first time around and didn't agree with half the stuff he did so I digress.
    I do recall Campaign Obama coming out in support of Coal Power.
    But I think that whatever Barack Obama says in 1,000% irrelevant at this point because he's just gonna follow the money like any other DC Dingbat. He has in every way possible proven himself to be incompetent by avoiding leadership at every point when it was most necessary. If we want to get a real sense of the direction this country, we should start listening to what Goldman Sachs, and Ben Bernanke say because these guys who are making the real changes not Obama. Obama is just the blind leading the blind while taking 30% of their disability checks.







    Quote Originally Posted by Big B-man View Post
    Nuclear power can be very safe, if proper precautions are taken and followed.
    This is true. But I don't think that you can count on people to do 100% of these things 100% of the time. I'm sure every disaster in history (caused by human error) could have been prevented if people would have done what they're supposed to be doing. This is why I think the repercussions of a nuclear disaster in a community should be evaluated as opposed to all of the things that these guys say they're gonna do so a disaster will "never" happen. Enmore already pointed out that the nuclear industry has a long history of cover ups. My personal belief is that if they can get away with something, they're gonna get away with it.
    Regulatory safety agencies are great, but people are too easily bought and for too often these organization becomes corrupt and concerns themselves with money rather than the safety of the people they are supposed to protect.
    At my last job we would have yearly OSHA inspections like any plant would. And OSHA really didn't do a through inspection of the workplace because if they did, we could have been shut down. Anyway, as I moved up the company ladder I got to see some old safety records and noticed the same handful of OSHA citations for the same incidents on the same equipment showing up every single year for as far back as the records would go. And I asked my boss out of curiosity why they would just keep paying the fine instead of fixing the equipment. And he said flat out that it was cheaper to pay the fines than it was to implement the required fixes in alot of cases. And he was absolutely right because in the auto industry, machines come and go every 3-5 years and nobody is going to put any money into something that may or may not be in use after the model year change.
    But it really only goes to show you that these guys are more about making money, and less about keeping us safe. There was obviously no followup on these incidents. Just another citation, and another dollar in their pocket.


    To be honest. I place no trust in people to do the right thing whenever money is involved. People are just too easily bought and corrupted.

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    The way I look at it there’s just too damn many “what ifs” in today’s politically correct world. The government, media, environmentalists and the pc have everybody so frigging paranoid they’re afraid of everything and anything that doesn’t have a stamp of approval from some government agency and Oprah Winfrey.

    This country is in a terminally stagnant state of affairs with little hope of reversing course.
    I'm not saying that we need to be afraid of our own shadow. Common sense tells us that disasters are inevitable and we have to look at the repercussions of a disaster whenever we consider allowing an industry to occupy itself in our communities.
    The BP oil spill could have been averted by people simply doing their job. But all too often we have safety regulations becoming a rubber stamp process, hazards get overlooked for bribes, and people will suffer.
    Radiation can last for millions of years and the aftermath can truly be devastating in contrast towards coal power plants.
    I'm not saying that we should tear down every nuclear power plant in the country for the sake of fear. And coal is good, but not a permanent viable solution for various reasons. I think that people should seriously start researching and developing less hazardous forms of power that will efficiently serve our needs.
    Last edited by JustinC939; 03-18-2011 at 07:39 AM.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  12. #42
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    I just read that Japan JUST NOW increased the nuclear radiation threat to a "5" putting it on par with 3 mile island.

  13. #43
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    Once in awhile it is refreshing to see one of our elected officials (a republican senator from Alaska this time....I know...shocking but true) show some maturity and genuine understanding of the situation.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/03/1...ex.html?hpt=C2

  14. #44
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Once in awhile it is refreshing to see one of our elected officials (a republican senator from Alaska this time....I know...shocking but true) show some maturity and genuine understanding of the situation.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/03/1...ex.html?hpt=C2

    Good read. But while she says it is premature to call it another Chernobyl. I happen to think that it's just as premature to say that it is not. Granted Chernobyl was a different kind of disaster with having only one reactor with no method of containment in contrast to the 4 reactors at Fukushima. While these reactors are superior in design, and did basically what they are supposed to do in this situation. The fact remains that the potential for a full nuclear meltdown is still very real as Japan tries despereatly tries to stop them from overheating.
    But I do think people here in the U.S. are over reacting to the threat of radiation and paying $600 for expired potassium iodide pills. Alaska and Hawaii might have something to worry about at this point. But I have my doubts beyond that.

    Another thing that kills me is all of these idiots who thing potassium iodide provides nuclear invincibility or something. Potassium iodide only protects the thyroid from one type of radiation. I guess it's better than nothing. But it ain't worth $600.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  15. #45
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    Re: US Domestic Energy / Energy policy

    Our leadership is so lacking in any kind national energy vision it's just pathetic.

    I've seen on the Discovery channel a few years ago salt deposits WAY the phuk underground in New Mexico. The story was about storage of nuclear waste.

    Now I know I'm just a simpleton here - but geeze, maybe we could build nuclear powered power generation plants underground?

    What a concept - they go nuts, evacuate and blow the access tunnel closed - problem solved and quickly.

    It just can't be that difficult.

    Arizona is right next door - send the busses over, pass out the visa's and hire some of their "Illegal Problem" to dig the holes. WTF - Chinese immigrants built the railroads......
    Last edited by SteveW; 04-12-2011 at 08:00 PM.
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