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  1. #31
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    Twain Harte, CA
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Those union stooges making 80K make up a tremendous amount of America's workforce. So you are just cool with their jobs getting shipped overseas because you think they make too much?
    Not so much of a tremendous amount of America's workforce anymore.

    Imagine, if a homeowners association put it in their by-laws that only licensed, certified, union landscapers making $80K a year were allowed to cut each home owner's yard, that each lawn must be serviced weekly, even if there's snow on the ground, and each homeowner was required to put up 20% of the cost for the landscaper's retirement, 15% for healthcare and 2% for union dues...

    I'd wager those homeowners would be kinda up for a fight.

    No?

  2. #32
    Joined
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    1,761

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    that each lawn must be serviced weekly, even if there's snow on the ground

    I don't think I have ever seen that

    Are you always in this state of hysteria?

    Does anyone ever take you serious???
    Last edited by falcon_view; 02-19-2011 at 12:48 AM. Reason: Added More

  3. #33
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by falcon_view View Post
    I don't think I have ever seen that

    Are you always in this state of hysteria?

    Does anyone ever take you serious???
    You got a problem with me, dude?

    I wasn't even talkin' to you... rarely do, for a reason.


    WTF

  4. #34
    Joined
    Dec 2003
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    Obamaland
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    35
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    9,534

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    ^ridiculous statements get ridiculous answers.
    Telling homeowners they have to hire certified landscapers at $80k/year is a bit different than people who want fair treatment and a decent living wage.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  5. #35
    Joined
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    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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    6,027

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by falcon_view View Post
    I don't think I have ever seen that

    Are you always in this state of hysteria?

    Does anyone ever take you serious???
    Quote Originally Posted by JustinC939 View Post
    ^ridiculous statements get ridiculous answers.
    Telling homeowners they have to hire certified landscapers at $80k/year is a bit different than people who want fair treatment and a decent living wage.
    I don't think the landscapers example is that extreme. After all, teachers don't work in the summer.

  6. #36
    Joined
    Sep 2008
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    Crazy AZ USA
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    3,516

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    I used to be in a Union.

    A corrupt bunch of mofos AFAIC. They pigeon-hole you and strangle the initiative of new and eager workers. I remember a few took me aside because I was doing too much and explained it to me.

    Fortunately they were polite- or we would have been done that day.

    Don't tell me about how righteous unions are. Especially the leaders involved in the politics. I left and found better opportunities elsewhere.

    The AFL-CIO can bite me. .!..
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

  7. #37
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    I don't think the landscapers example is that extreme. After all, teachers don't work in the summer.
    It just happened to be a "snow day" yesterday. That's when there's snow on the ground, the school closes for the day, and the teachers, administrators, etc., stay home and get paid.

  8. #38
    Joined
    Jun 2004
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    In a house
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    5,755

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    I used to be in a Union.

    A corrupt bunch of mofos AFAIC.
    I agree

  9. #39
    Joined
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    Location
    Oregon
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    6,499

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Guys, Dutch was trying to make a point specifically to me with the HOA thing because I was bitching about my HOA in another thread. I get the point he was making.

  10. #40
    Joined
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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    6,027

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by AeroSim View Post
    I used to be in a Union.

    A corrupt bunch of mofos AFAIC. They pigeon-hole you and strangle the initiative of new and eager workers. I remember a few took me aside because I was doing too much and explained it to me.

    Fortunately they were polite- or we would have been done that day.

    Don't tell me about how righteous unions are. Especially the leaders involved in the politics. I left and found better opportunities elsewhere.

    The AFL-CIO can bite me. .!..
    Yeah, I had to join a union in high school when I worked at a grocery store. I had to join the almighty UFCW. Long story short, it was awful and most of the 30-60 year olds who were career union grocery workers at the store were pretty apathetic and lazy. They threatened to go to the union every time management whispered a negative syllable in their direction. And I was 16-17 years old and I could tell that unions had become compliment, greedy and corrupt.

    Wisconsin isn't a right to work state. I could of opted out of the union, but I still would of had to pay union dues because I was covered under their CBA. So I decided to stay in the union - if I was paying them, they were going to hear my voice if they did something I didn't like.

    They still send me their newsletter once a quarter and send me a letter telling me who to vote for every election. They didn't endorse Scott Walker in the last election.

  11. #41
    Joined
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    Twain Harte, CA
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    I'm glad you get my drift, BD... whether we agree or not.

    One of these days I'll have to share the story of the homeowners revolt against the white rail fence requirement. There's not much more entertaining than a bunch of people in million dollar homes being told what kind of fence to put up and watching their reactions.

    In brief, one of the residents (one of my clients) was told he would be fined $100. a month for not putting up the white rail fences. His response... "Fine. Here's a check for two years." The members of the little fifedom didn't like that. They were eventually voted out.

    The personal benefit of the battle is that every home without a white rail fence was designed by yours truly. The other residents... "Hey, why didn't our arkeytech think of that?"

  12. #42
    Joined
    Mar 2002
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    California
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    25,335

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Pretty much sums up the mindset of the left in a nutshell nowadays...



    “We Can Fix the Deficit… Tax, Tax, Tax the Rich”
    Of course by "rich" they mean any taxpayer with two nickels left to rub together.

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  13. #43
    Joined
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    California
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    25,335

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by liteman View Post
    Wisconsin's budget was balanced until last month, when Walker and his GOP cronies rammed through a $117M corporate tax break. This bill eliminates all collective baragaining except for wages (and limits wage increases to inflation), eliminates union dues withholding, mandates annual union recertification votes and mandatory decertification of unions if they ever get less than 50% of the vote. (As an aside, what sane person would be belong to a union that must operate under those rules?)

    This bill is everything about union busting. The so-called fiscal crisis is a manufactured pretense-manufactured by last month's GOP approved tax slash.

    Good old GOP, new face, same old deficit creating tax breaks and union busting.
    Well.. politifact finally looked at a libberal talking point.. how refreshing..

    Rachel Maddow says Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year

    . . .
    Our conclusion: Maddow and the others are wrong.
    . . .
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  14. #44
    Joined
    Mar 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    25,335

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...



    ^^^ Tru...



    ^^ From opensecrets.

    These folks here probably have hotlines in their offices from trial lawyers(see: ambulance chasers) to boot. Wonder how may "workers comp." claims these street corner docs are responsible for making determinations on?

    Video: Doctors handing out fake medical excuses at WI union protest

    Via Drudge, one of the more hypocritical moments of the union protests in Madison gets committed to videotape by MacIver Institute. Why hypocritical? Well, imagine what these same teachers would say if their students got doctors to sign notes en masse at the mall to teenagers that play hooky from their classes. Great lesson these teachers are giving their students, especially the ones they brought in tow to Wisconsin’s capital:



    “I asked this doctor what he was doing and he told me they were handing out excuses to people who were feeling sick due to emotional, mental or financial distress,” said Christian Hartsock. “They never performed an exam–he asked me how I was feeling today and I said I’m from California and I’m not used to the cold, so he handed me a note.”

    Another woman, who wished to remain anonymous, said they were handing out excuses like they were leaflets.

    “I asked if they were handing out doctors’ excuses and a guy said yes and asked me if I needed one,” she said. “When I told them I needed one for February 16 and 17th, he wondered if I wanted to come back here for the protests next week.”

    What happened next?

    “I said, ‘sure,’ and I received a doctor’s note for the 16th through the 25th of February, without a medical exam.”
    Don’t miss the doctor who scolded the cameraman because he doesn’t hang out at the capital every day for a year before asking questions about aiding and abetting fraud. Perhaps the state might want to look into these cases of inadequate examination and potential misdiagnosis by the “doctors” who issued those notes, too.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  15. #45
    Joined
    Oct 2001
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    Indian-uhhh
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    36
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    5,804

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinC939 View Post
    Well good for him. But if he had received that retirement package in the form of a wage that he could use to invest in his own retirement fund in lieu of his retirement package; would you consider it paying someone to be retired when he really earned that retirement?
    It really puzzles me how every conservative will gripe about a middle class guy earning a decent living, but has no problem with the top 2% paying less in taxes than the rest of us.

    I worked in a non-union workplace for almost 9 years. And in that time span, I watched our benefits and perks go out the window as company as profits actually went up. The management basically looted that place until it closed. One of the GMs actually went to jail for taking kickbacks from steel suppliers.
    I'm not saying that a union would flat out prevent corporate corruption, but it would prevent corporations from looting their employees to some degree.
    And even aside from wages and benefits, unions are there to ensure fair treatment, fair pay, equal opportunity, and a safe workplace for all employees along because you simply cannot count on an employer to do any of these things voluntarily.
    I'm only part of a small union, and I understand that the big unions are also corrupt. Working in the auto industry for as long as I have. I've had the opportunity to visit some GM and Chrysler plants, and those guys have it made. They are both overstaffed and over paid. The UAW would turn a one man operation would turn into a 10 man operation, and pay them all $80,000 a year. That is unreasonable. You can't expect to make vehicles affordable to people making $40,000/year when your employees make $80,000/year.
    Anybody who has had a taste of factory work would understand and appreciate the fact that we have things like Unions, OSHA, workers compensation. And I think it's entirely unfair to call out the unions as being the job killers in this country when corporate fat cats do just the same. And it's really funny how people conveniently forget all about NAFTA.
    It's good to hear that not all unions have gone off the deep end, which is what I've figured. The more I thought about it, the more I started to think that there certainly are bad unions that are out of touch with reality, just like there are companies that are out of touch with reality.

    The problem is that you have the extremes on either side of the bargin being put up as the example of why that side is oh-so-evil. Obviously, looking back in history, there were businesses that did take advantage of its workers, thus leading to formation of unions. At the same time, that doesn't universally apply to every business. Apply that to unions.

    Oh, yeah, thanks for bringing up NAFTA. That has been a giant sucking sound.

    I guess the question comes down to what's available as options. From my understanding, up in Wisconsin, the governor is legally required to balance the budget and he wants to adjust how much the employees pay so he doesn't have to have anybody lose their job. I think it's extreme for someone who's trying not to fire anybody to end up being compared to Hitler (which degrades what atrocities happened in WWII).

    Of course, no matter which way it goes, I'm sure he'd be blamed for the outcome no matter what. All because he's following the law in his state.

    Especially from the Union workers or pro-Union guys, I really want to hear those takes on this situation.

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