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  1. #46
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    I would have less of a problem with Walker if he was applying these cuts to include all state workers equally, including himself. This just smells too much like a politcal stunt aimed at those who didn't support him.

    If he's such a real fiscal conservative, let him apply cuts equally and to himself as well (he should take a cut in pay as a gesture of solidarity), then I'll beleive him and have no problem with it.
    Fox News watchers are less informed - The Proof

    I hope we shall... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
    - Thomas Jefferson

  2. #47
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Jessee found a camera... had to get in before Al Sharpton showed up...





    Madison protests joined by…Jesse Jackson?

    Is Scott Walker going to have to “apologize”?

    The Rev. Jesse Jackson arrived around noon Friday, speaking to the near-capacity crowd for about five minutes. From the second level of the Capitol rotunda, he led the crowd in chants including “Save the teachers. Save the children.” Protesters swayed as Jackson led them in a rendition of the song, “We Shall Overcome.”

    “If we can find the money to bail out wealthy businessmen, we can bail out Madison, Wisconsin!” Jackson yelled, to thunderous applause from the crowd, many of them clad in Badger red.
    Wait…wouldn’t a bailout of Madison mean more along the lines of, you know, saving them from bankruptcy? Like…Walker’s plan? Of course, the problem is that nobody at the protest needs to be “bailed out”. What they face is minor contributions from their paycheck towards their benefits, which most working people are used to. But then, Jesse Jackson has always been one to jump to the side of whoever feels entitled to something from the government, or, more specifically, the taxpayers.

    Isn’t this guy’s career over yet? Maybe he can rip Walker’s nuts off.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  3. #48
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by liteman View Post
    This just smells too much like a politcal stunt aimed at those who didn't support him.
    So when Democrats raise taxes on the rich and corporations, it's just a political stunt aimed at those who didn't support them?

  4. #49
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    So when Democrats raise taxes on the rich and corporations, it's just a political stunt aimed at those who didn't support them?
    ^^^ We'll have none of that applying logic here fella! Just add it to the long list of things that only cut one way when classic tax-n-spend libberals are involved and keep moving... nuthin' to see here.

    Good sign that the unions are sensing they over played their hand and wanna end this ASAP.

    Unions concede on money issues; governor says bargaining must go

    Niceee... I'm sure those folks who had to work and arrange child care so the teachers union could stage their tantrum will love this...

    Your Tax Dollars at Work… Busing Truant Union Members to Wisconsin Capitol to Protest

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  5. #50
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    So when Democrats raise taxes on the rich and corporations, it's just a political stunt aimed at those who didn't support them?
    They can afford it, just because they have the lowest tax rates in 60 years & record profits doesn't mean they get to be welfare queens for life. And where's those jobs , you know the ones repubs said would be created if not fot the fear of a tax increase ?

    I see you righties ignored responding to this part :
    I would have less of a problem with Walker if he was applying these cuts to include all state workers equally, including himself.

    If he's such a real fiscal conservative, let him apply cuts equally and to himself as well (he should take a cut in pay as a gesture of solidarity), then I'll beleive him and have no problem with it.
    The reason it doesn't apply to all public unions is clear as day. Because if you go against the firefighters and police, you turn the public against you. This is all about politics and has nothing to do with fiscal sanity, that is just the lipstick on the pig.
    Last edited by liteman; 02-20-2011 at 01:15 PM.
    Fox News watchers are less informed - The Proof

    I hope we shall... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
    - Thomas Jefferson

  6. #51
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by liteman View Post
    They can afford it, just because they have the lowest tax rates in 60 years & record profits doesn't mean they get to be welfare queens for life. And where's those jobs , you know the ones repubs said would be created if not fot the fear of a tax increase ?
    So it is a political stunt to support redistribution of wealth plain and simple...because they can afford it. Well at least you are honest to some degree. As far as the tax increases... think you've confused your talking points.

    Quote Originally Posted by liteman View Post
    I see you righties ignored responding to this part :
    I did not respond because it's a hypothetical. Tell ya what.. you get the unions to agree to drop collective bargaining and the necessary cuts if the gubbenor takes a pay cut and we'll talk then. MMkay?

    Quote Originally Posted by liteman View Post
    The reason it doesn't apply to all public unions is clear as day. Because if you go against the firefighters and police, you turn the public against you. This is all about politics and has nothing to do with fiscal sanity, that is just the lipstick on the pig.
    Really? Interesting theory about the firefighters and police. You and that dude Maddow keep that up. WI does not have a budget issue the gubbenor needs to resolve by law. It's all just some plot cuz he hates unions. And the unions.. they must be striking cuz they hate taxpayers.
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  7. #52
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    So it is a political stunt to support redistribution of wealth plain and simple...because they can afford it. Well at least you are honest to some degree. As far as the tax increases... think you've confused your talking points.



    I did not respond because it's a hypothetical. Tell ya what.. you get the unions to agree to drop collective bargaining and the necessary cuts if the gubbenor takes a pay cut and we'll talk then. MMkay?



    Really? Interesting theory about the firefighters and police. You and that dude Maddow keep that up. WI does not have a budget issue the gubbenor needs to resolve by law. It's all just some plot cuz he hates unions. And the unions.. they must be striking cuz they hate taxpayers.
    If rich people cannot make it on their salaries, they need to move to a cheaper area or cut their spending, just like regular people have to.


    So, you don't think it should apply to all public jobs and unions and your'e agreeing there must not be too big of a budget crisis or Walker would've proposed doing more...Thanks
    Fox News watchers are less informed - The Proof

    I hope we shall... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
    - Thomas Jefferson

  8. #53
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by liteman View Post
    If rich people cannot make it on their salaries, they need to move to a cheaper area or cut their spending, just like regular people have to.
    When you say "regular people" you mean everyone except unions. Because when unions are presented with cuts to bring them more in line with what every other taxpayer is experiencing (known in the private sector as reality), the only solution they offer is... more taxes.



    AND.. the rich are moving. They are moving their investment money and jobs overseas. Be sure to thank your unions for making labor here intolerable and sending many states into fiscal crisis.

    Quote Originally Posted by liteman View Post
    So, you don't think it should apply to all public jobs and unions and your'e agreeing there must not be too big of a budget crisis or Walker would've proposed doing more...Thanks
    That's some lead pipe lock you have on logic there.

    If I ask you to get the unions onboard with the hypothetical you suggest first... it's not an agreement or affirmation of your position.

    When I point out that the crisis does exists despite what the usual leftbots in the MSM would have you believe... it's not an agreement or affirmation of your position.

    And finally when I point out that the gubbenor must balance the budget by law and this is not a situation of his manufacture... it's not an agreement or affirmation of your position.

    Hope that clears up any confusion on your part.

    On a related note. Union thugs doing what union thugs do when opposition tries to exercise it's right to freely assemble and speak.



    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  9. #54
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by AMDScooter View Post
    When you say "regular people" you mean everyone except unions. Because when unions are presented with cuts to bring them more in line with what every other taxpayer is experiencing (known in the private sector as reality), the only solution they offer is... more taxes.



    AND.. the rich are moving. They are moving their investment money and jobs overseas. Be sure to thank your unions for making labor here intolerable and sending many states into fiscal crisis.



    That's some lead pipe lock you have on logic there.

    If I ask you to get the unions onboard with the hypothetical you suggest first... it's not an agreement or affirmation of your position.

    When I point out that the crisis does exists despite what the usual leftbots in the MSM would have you believe... it's not an agreement or affirmation of your position.

    And finally when I point out that the gubbenor must balance the budget by law and this is not a situation of his manufacture... it's not an agreement or affirmation of your position.

    Hope that clears up any confusion on your part.

    On a related note. Union thugs doing what union thugs do when opposition tries to exercise it's right to freely assemble and speak.



    Since he must do it by law, should'nt he have made cuts to ALL public employees, himself & legislators included? After all, that was in his campaign platform. Do you agree with this logic?



    30 million from the proposed cuts to teachers now will do basically nothing to the projected 3.6 billion deficit.
    Fox News watchers are less informed - The Proof

    I hope we shall... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
    - Thomas Jefferson

  10. #55
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Unions don't have to be considered bad nor jobs off-shored, Look no farther than Germany:

    Is it necessary to move jobs abroad, just because more and more of the customers are abroad? A look at Germany suggests otherwise. Despite the global downturn, the German economy has been booming, exporting so many goods to the expanding markets of the developing world as well as to the rest of Europe that its net trade surplus -- the net value of its exports over its imports -- comes to 7 percent of its GDP, the highest of any major nation. Germany is anything but a low-wage country: The average hourly compensation -- wages plus benefits -- of German manufacturing workers is $48, well above the $32 hourly average for their American counterparts. Yet Germany is an export giant while the U.S. is the colossus of imports.

    German multinationals have their own affiliates overseas, but they have also maintained robust, high-quality production at home. Siemens, which is more or less the German equivalent of General Electric, has hundreds of thousands of employees who work abroad, but it recently announced a deal with its major union, IG Metall, that included a pledge not to make any unilateral reductions in its 128,000-employee German workforce. BMW, ThyssenKrupp, and Daimler have gone even further, signing deals with IG Metall to maintain a fixed number of employees in Germany.

    These domestic employee-retention pacts are an outgrowth of Germany's more consensual, stakeholder version of capitalism. German workers' organizations have a far greater say than American workers do in the conduct of their employers. By law, employees in large companies get the same number of seats on corporate boards that management does. Unions and management collaborate to ensure that German manufacturing retains and expands its high-quality products and markets. IG Metall has been working with automakers, for instance, to train workers to mass-produce electric cars. "Our goal is to really retain high-value-added manufacturing in Germany," Martin Allspach, the union's policy director, told me when I visited IG Metall headquarters in Frankfurt in November.

    The German experience also shows that the structure of finance can have a profound effect on the retention of manufacturing. An entire stratum of German banking, municipally owned savings banks, provides the funds that enable the nation's prosperous, largely family-owned midsized manufacturers, the Mittelstand, to upgrade themselves into export dynamos. About two-thirds of Germany's small and midsized businesses get their loans from these banks, which shun capital markets and are restricted to doing business in their own towns. "Over the past decade, banking largely became a self-fulfilling activity," says Patrick Steinpass, the chief economist of the national organization of savings banks. "But our banks are restricted to doing business in their regions; they have to concentrate on the real economy."

    The Mittelstand is thus able to remain largely immune from many of the pressures that financial markets, with their pressure for ever rising profits and share prices, inflict on American businesses. Klaas Hubner, a former member of Germany's Parliament and the owner of a Mittelstand company that sells axle-box housings to Chinese and other nations' high-speed railroads, believes that this freedom from American-style markets is the key to Germany's success. "We don't have short-term strategies, only long-term strategies," he told me. By preserving a vibrant sector of small-scale manufacturing, Germany also has a local capitalism. "I live where my company is located," Hubner said. "I want a good reputation in the town I live in."

    No such localism can be found among American business leaders, whose brand of capitalism is keyed solely to their shareholders and top executives. "For a lot of American companies, their actual and psychic energy is focused abroad," says Matthew J. Slaughter, associate dean at Dartmouth's Tuck School of Business and a member of George W. Bush's Council of Economic Advisers from 2005 through 2007. The American way of business is aptly summarized in the McKinsey Global Institute's 2010 report on U.S. Multinational Corporations: "U.S. multinationals must pursue new growth opportunities and continually improve operations to remain globally competitive," it says. "They go where the markets are expanding, where the talent lives, and where they can earn superior returns."
    link
    Fox News watchers are less informed - The Proof

    I hope we shall... crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our government in a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
    - Thomas Jefferson

  11. #56
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    ^^^ Where to start...

    1) This ain't Germany.
    2) Germany instituted austerity measures, bamma and the looney moonbats running congress at the time of his election shot a cool trillion $$ down the $hitter instead. I'd have to say that has more to do with the difference between how our economies are doing than anything.

    President Barack Obama, for one, understands the problem. "What is a danger is that we stay stuck in a new normal where unemployment rates stay high,"
    ^^ Fuggin genius.. give the community organizer another Nobel.

    "Buy America" stipulations for government procurement
    Give a smoochey to the unions once again and start a trade war. Double genius.

    Another alternative to economic stagnation is a massive dose of investment in America's increasingly decrepit infrastructure
    Moar stimulus!! Moar "shovel ready jobs" that do not exist. Triple genius!

    Ack.. I feel less smart for having read that...
    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  12. #57
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    25,346

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    "The most dangerous myth is the demagoguery that business can be made to pay a larger share, thus relieving the individual. Politicians preaching this are either deliberately dishonest, or economically illiterate, and either one should scare us...
    Only people pay taxes, and people pay as consumers every tax that is assessed against a business."


    -The Gipper


  13. #58
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    6,027

    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by liteman View Post
    Since he must do it by law, should'nt he have made cuts to ALL public employees, himself & legislators included? After all, that was in his campaign platform. Do you agree with this logic?



    30 million from the proposed cuts to teachers now will do basically nothing to the projected 3.6 billion deficit.
    You sure are getting a lot of facts wrong about this story. It's $300 million over the next two years.

    And by taking away the union's right to collectively bargain (which again - was awarded to the public unions by the Wisconsin State Legislature and can be taken away), Wisconsin can control spending in the future.

    And I'd remind you that some states, like Virginia and North Carolina, don't even allow public unions to collectively bargain. Federal employees are not allowed to collectively bargain, either.
    Last edited by Keven; 02-20-2011 at 09:38 PM.

  14. #59
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by liteman View Post
    Unions don't have to be considered bad nor jobs off-shored, Look no farther than Germany:



    link
    Really? You linked to The American Prospect? The self-proclaimed journal of liberal intelligence?

  15. #60
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    Re: Unions Federal, State & whats left of the private sector...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    You got a problem with me, dude?
    Oh, I don't know. Why don't you go back to your's and scooter's first posts on Economic News/Discussion and tell me how that turned out.....

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