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  1. #181
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    BO's reasoning behind his sudden change of view on gay marriage.

    "At a certain point, I have just concluded that, for me personally, it is important for me to affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married,"

    Here's how I read it:

    "At this point in the election, I have just concluded that, for me personally, it is more important for me to affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married because I need every damn vote I can get my hands on,"

    Sheesh, what a spineless little man he is. I can hear it now. "Mr. President, the polls aren't looking too good for you in the next election. The race baiting with Travyon backfired, the dog thing was an absolute disaster, people don't seem to be buying our lies about unemployment going down....hey I know, Romney's a Mormon and is therefore against gay marriage. If you change your stance on gay marriage you can be their hero!" "You don't have a problem changing one of your beliefs for nothing other than the hope of some more votes do you?"

  2. #182
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    President Obama just went on ABC News and told Robin Roberts that he supports same-sex marriage.
    He's walkin' a tight rope on this one. During his entire political career he's been for same-sex marriage, but as an elected official has never done diddley-doo-squat about it. If he was half the man he claims to be, he'd stand behind his principles and DO something. Instead, he chooses to pander for the votes on one side of the issue while not being strong enough to lose the votes on the other side.

    What's laughable about his "coming out" party is that he didn't say anything new but its being painted as if he did.

    Someone please tell, what does a politician's stand on ANYTHING matter if he expressly claims that he won't act on it?

    Kinda like Romney's underwear. If he's not gonna make us wear funny briefs, who cares?

    Squirrel!!!

  3. #183
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    It does make one wonder just how disconnected the entire Obama camp is from America. Let's see, every state that put it to a vote yielded the same result, "Not now". The O camp obviously knows this, yet still O gets up in front of the camera and says he supports it. I don't get it. This is supposed to help him in the election?

    I dunno, but my money says this is a net negative for his vote count this fall.

    And FWIW, I'll second Dutch's
    To be clear... I think civil unions with full legal protections is the answer. For me, the idea that gays should have marriages "like everyone else" is just noise.

  4. #184
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    74,682

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Ill make a bet that Obama may well lose NC over the issue. Its been a toss up state...but man when you look at the votes here for "not Obama" he may end up losing in November. If I recall right he got 773,000 or so votes and there were something like 125,000 "no preference" votes on the Dem side. Romney got 665,000 or so but add in 100K + for santorum...100K plus for Paul etc and was actually down in popular vote by about 400K compared with Republican votes.

  5. #185
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Yeah, the gay-marriage thing has come up at a time that makes you think "Hmmm".

    On one hand, people--including politicians--should be allowed to change their views. You learn something new, you age, etc. Nothing wrong. Where it's a problem is when you change those views...and right now, it seems Obama has a convenient change of heart.

    I don't know if this move marks an intent to make gay-marriage an issue in this election, but if he does, I think that's a poor choice, given other problems at hand.

  6. #186
    Joined
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    I don't see anything "gay" about this at all. Lets all a spade a spade.
    It's a homosexual union or relationship. I couldn't care less, but it does
    freak me out to see a guy or gal laying a big fat smooch the lips of their partner
    in public. To me, that's just mighty strange and I have to look the other way.

    Far as Obama "coming out" on this, I'm surprised any ARE surprised he would
    be ok with it to the extent that it seems he's endorsing it. This guy figures he'll
    need the votes. This guy will do just about anything to get votes. In fact, I kinda
    wonder if somehow he's related to this guy...


  7. #187
    Joined
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by no2guncntrl View Post
    I don't see anything "gay" about this at all. Lets all a spade a spade.
    It's a homosexual union or relationship. I couldn't care less, but it does
    freak me out to see a guy or gal laying a big fat smooch the lips of their partner
    in public. To me, that's just mighty strange and I have to look the other way.
    So if it freaks me out that two old wrinkled people are smooching in public, we should regulate that? If I think that its gross that some dude is running in the park without a shirt on is gross we should regulate that? This is about equal rights. If you object to gay "marriage" on a religious level, then your church doesn't have to have a ceremony for them, but extend to them the same civil rights given to all the other weird heterosexual couples out there. I have a hard time giving any arguments about the "sanctity of marriage" any credence with all the dysfunctional heterosexual couples that have done a million times more to drag the sanctity of marriage through the dirt


    Trust me, I do science
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  8. #188
    Joined
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    3,785

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    So if it freaks me out that two old wrinkled people are smooching in public, we should regulate that? If I think that its gross that some dude is running in the park without a shirt on is gross we should regulate that?
    Alright, where the heck did I write anything about regulating anything ? Second,
    if seeing two old folks trading spit or seeing some guy running around without a
    shirt does bother ya, look the other way or stare or whatever, I guess.

    This is about equal rights. If you object to gay "marriage" on a religious level, then your church doesn't have to have a ceremony for them, but extend to them the same civil rights given to all the other weird heterosexual couples out there.
    Here we go again..No where did I write that I objected to homosexuals getting hitched
    or otherwise. I couldn't give a sh*t if they get together married or otherwise. I just
    totally disagree with calling this part of life "gay". I couldn't care less if anyone
    wanted to marry their turtles or almost anything or person unless it's a minor,
    then it's wood chipper time, but other than that, screw it.

    I have a hard time giving any arguments about the "sanctity of marriage" any credence with all the dysfunctional heterosexual couples that have done a million times more to drag the sanctity of marriage through the dirt
    Who's arguing ? Ya have to admit though, there's a lot more heterosexual
    couples married or otherwise and they' re bound to drop the ball or mess up
    the deal more than once or twice in their lives.

    And if anyone knows about being discriminated against or being very limited in what
    one can do, or being ostracized in the public, especially in Ca's so called
    permissive, let live society, it's being a law abiding firearms owner. So much
    for our "civil rights" here in Ca and many other so called progressive states.
    Last edited by no2guncntrl; 05-11-2012 at 03:07 AM.

  9. #189
    Joined
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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    6,027

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by myv65 View Post
    And FWIW, I'll second Dutch's

    To be clear... I think civil unions with full legal protections is the answer. For me, the idea that gays should have marriages "like everyone else" is just noise.
    I agree. I think civil unions with all the legal rights are the answer too. It seems to be the most non-controversial answer, but the gay friends and family members that I have want a "marriage". It's an equality thing to them. I say, let them have it.

  10. #190
    Joined
    Aug 2001
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    74,682

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    I agree. I think civil unions with all the legal rights are the answer too. It seems to be the most non-controversial answer, but the gay friends and family members that I have want a "marriage". It's an equality thing to them. I say, let them have it.
    LOL. Ill agrue for the other side for a change. And Im basically passive on the issue yet I am able to appreciate that argument.

    Via civil unions (and again not my argument) arent we stepping back in history to a separate but equal enviroment? Sure, the civil union answer provides all the "mechanics" but still perpetuates a relationship that is indeed different than "marriage". Lets face it...many churches will never accept any deviation from the traditional marriage definition and thats fine....so long as government doesnt force them into accepting a new definition.
    But for all secular activities...forms..financial rights...social security is it correct to raise a distinction that makes one group feel at some disadvantage when it can be avoided?

    Maybe the distinction is something similar to what we have done in some citizenip classes. Im thinking the "naturalized citizen" label. Same rights etc..but stuck with a label that seems to denote along with history..something less than the term Citizen.
    Last edited by jimzinsocal; 05-11-2012 at 07:55 AM.

  11. #191
    Joined
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    20,453

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    Sure, the civil union answer provides all the "mechanics" but still perpetuates a relationship that is indeed different than "marriage".
    There's the rub. It is a different kind of relationship, even though proponents insist it be viewed as the same. We may as well say all narcotics are the same because they all give you a buzz. Or we can say hybrids and gas powered cars are the same because they all have four wheels.
    Maybe the distinction is something similar to what we have done in some citizenip classes. Im thinking the "naturalized citizen" label. Same rights etc..but stuck with a label that seems to denote along with history..something less than the term Citizen.
    I've never felt "stuck with the label". Quite the opposite... am very proud of having gone through the process and am very proud to be an American and proud of being Dutch as well.

    I think its odd that with all this celebration of diversity, some insist we all be the "same"... and please check the appropriate box for your ethnic background.

  12. #192
    Joined
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Michigan
    Age
    32
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    6,438

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    I used to be kind of against gay marriage in a way. Considering what marriage is defined as. I dont have anything against gay people I just understood why people could be against it given the definition of marriage, and they still have the civil partnerships or whatever.

    However, Marriage's definition has changed a lot anyway with divorce as an option and how it is done. I mean for one thing it technically started off as religious. However my wife and I are both atheists and did not have a religious wedding but we are still married. So I guess I don't see any reason why they allow us "heathens" to marry but not gay people.

  13. #193
    Joined
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Central NJ
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    11,090

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by no2guncntrl View Post
    Alright, where the heck did I write anything about regulating anything ? Second,
    if seeing two old folks trading spit or seeing some guy running around without a
    shirt does bother ya, look the other way or stare or whatever, I guess.


    Here we go again..No where did I write that I objected to homosexuals getting hitched
    or otherwise. I couldn't give a sh*t if they get together married or otherwise. I just
    totally disagree with calling this part of life "gay". I couldn't care less if anyone
    wanted to marry their turtles or almost anything or person unless it's a minor,
    then it's wood chipper time, but other than that, screw it.


    Who's arguing ? Ya have to admit though, there's a lot more heterosexual
    couples married or otherwise and they' re bound to drop the ball or mess up
    the deal more than once or twice in their lives.

    And if anyone knows about being discriminated against or being very limited in what
    one can do, or being ostracized in the public, especially in Ca's so called
    permissive, let live society, it's being a law abiding firearms owner. So much
    for our "civil rights" here in Ca and many other so called progressive states.
    My apologies. I singled out your post because it was the last one and then proceeded to go off on my own little tangent where I wasn't really directly responding

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    I agree. I think civil unions with all the legal rights are the answer too. It seems to be the most non-controversial answer, but the gay friends and family members that I have want a "marriage". It's an equality thing to them. I say, let them have it.
    I agree. Overall though it sounds like a semantic argument. I'm not sure what the big deal is one way or another. Marriage, union who cares what they call it as long as the legal protections are the same. I'm not really sure I understand what the hangup is in people's minds when I hear "i'm for civil unions, but not marriages!" I don't think homosexuals are trying to force churches to perform ceremonies.. they're just looking for the protections of law given to "marriages". After all, on the governmental level isn't a marriage just a "union" since they're treated the same no matter how they're performed.


    Trust me, I do science
    My Hardware, Past and Present

  14. #194
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    Twain Harte, CA
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    20,453

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Activate: AMD View Post
    I agree. Overall though it sounds like a semantic argument. I'm not sure what the big deal is one way or another.
    A lot of people think it is a big deal and that alone makes it a big deal.
    I don't think homosexuals are trying to force churches to perform ceremonies.. they're just looking for the protections of law given to "marriages".
    There have been lawsuits and in our litigious society you can bank on there being more. If the gay community was only looking for the legal protections, they would be all in for the civil unions tact. I see the civil unions thing as "here are your answers if you can handle the semantics". I guess they want their opponents to handle the semantics.

  15. #195
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    Central NJ
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    A lot of people think it is a big deal and that alone makes it a big deal.
    My point was that I don't understand why people think its a big deal, but thanks for the mind-blowing insight there dutch
    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    There have been lawsuits and in our litigious society you can bank on there being more. If the gay community was only looking for the legal protections, they would be all in for the civil unions tact. I see the civil unions thing as "here are your answers if you can handle the semantics". I guess they want their opponents to handle the semantics.
    But they haven't been given civil unions because people on both sides insist on using the term marriage, its not just one or the other. States haven't legalized civil unions on an equal basis. As for the lawsuits, thats a really hollow argument. I don't see the Westboro baptist "church" being forced to change their tune, just to obey the rule of law regarding their protests. Churches have plenty of protections against lawsuits, some might say too much.


    Trust me, I do science
    My Hardware, Past and Present

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