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  1. #61
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    You SAY different cultures have different definitions of marriage, but outside of Canada's five year old law (which hardly establishes it as a culture), you haven't presented anything.

    About Mormons, your argument kinda falls flat because the sects of the Mormons who believe in polygamy are not legally allowed to practice it wherever they choose in the US. I'm not sure, but think polygamy is an illegal practice in every state.

    You also have not addressed the willingness of the majority to protect gay couples' rights through civil unions and why you don't feel that is a good compromise, when it absolutely offers gays the rights they seek, other than to call those of us who feel that way by names that are usually used to refer to... drum roll... homosexuals.

  2. #62
    Joined
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    You SAY different cultures have different definitions of marriage, but outside of Canada's five year old law (which hardly establishes it as a culture), you haven't presented anything.
    Did you read anything that I wrote?

    Actually, I've presented everything that refutes your argument. It's not my fault that you choose not to see it.

    I'm not making the argument that we should submit to the traditions of every culture because they exist. You make the argument that we should forcibly submit to the traditions of a culture, or cultures that are alike to yours. I make the argument that we should not forcibly submit to the traditions of any culture and instead allow people to do what they wish providing they do no harm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    About Mormons, your argument kinda falls flat because the sects of the Mormons who believe in polygamy are not legally allowed to practice it wherever they choose in the US. I'm not sure, but think polygamy is an illegal practice in every state.
    I just used Mormons as an example, I really could have just used any other religion.

    And did I say that polygamy should remain illegal?

    I know discriminatory laws still exists for various reasons. But for the record, I don't think polygamy should be illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    You also have not addressed the willingness of the majority to protect gay couples' rights through civil unions and why you don't feel that is a good compromise, when it absolutely offers gays the rights they seek, other than to call those of us who feel that way by names that are usually used to refer to... drum roll... homosexuals.
    Providing that civil unions provide all of the same rights as marriage, I suppose that it could be a satisfactory compromise. But other than sentimental reasons; is it really necessary to call it a different name when it really is no different? I personally see it as way to unnecessarily divide people. It would be like calling a certain person's driver's license a "vehicle operator's permit" because the DMV doesn't like the way that person walks. Two guys getting married doesn't invalidate the marriage of a straight couple just because you call it a marriage.
    Last edited by JustinC939; 03-07-2011 at 02:47 PM.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  3. #63
    Joined
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    20,453

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinC939 View Post
    Did you read anything that I wrote?
    Everything. You're sounding like a graduate of the otoc school of argument.
    But other than sentimental reasons; is it really necessary to call it a different name when it really is no different?
    That's the absurdity that this argument always comes down to... that two guys or two girls are no different than a guy and a girl. Sorry, but it doesn't wash. A + and a - are not the same as a + and a + or a - and a -. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to a + and + or - and -, but to say they are one and the same as a + and a - is simply not true.

    To the question of it being necessary to use a different name... if gays really want the legal protections and want their plight to be rectified by a majority, then yes, its necessary. If, on the other hand, they want to force their ideas on the rest of the country through other means, like the courts, then it will take longer and may never happen.

  4. #64
    Joined
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    [quote=Dutchcedar;4487731]Everything. You're sounding like a graduate of the otoc school of argument.

    And you sound like a graduate of AMDScooter's school of argument.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    That's the absurdity that this argument always comes down to... that two guys or two girls are no different than a guy and a girl. Sorry, but it doesn't wash. A + and a - are not the same as a + and a + or a - and a -. That doesn't mean I'm opposed to a + and + or - and -, but to say they are one and the same as a + and a - is simply not true.
    OK. Well this just goes back the argument that there is no singular definition of marriage. It varies, and can be up to interpretation.
    A tall guy and a short girl isn't the same as a short guy and a tall girl.
    If they're getting married should we refer to each marriage on a case by case basis then?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post

    To the question of it being necessary to use a different name... if gays really want the legal protections and want their plight to be rectified by a majority, then yes, its necessary. If, on the other hand, they want to force their ideas on the rest of the country through other means, like the courts, then it will take longer and may never happen.
    You are partially right (other than gays forcing their ideas on us) , But I'm fairly certain that gay marriage and right will be a part of our future regardless.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  5. #65
    Joined
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    644

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    You SAY different cultures have different definitions of marriage, but outside of Canada's five year old law (which hardly establishes it as a culture), you haven't presented anything.
    Oh... so you're asking about same-sex marriages in culture?

    Roman Emperor Nero married a man, and performed a marriage for two other men. Roman Emperor Elagabalus married another man as well.

    Homosexuality was later (300 years later) outlawed in Rome mostly because of Christianity and fear that children of noble families would be in relationships with slaves. But hey, when the Roman empire was still about Roman culture, it was allowed. <thumbs up>

    Not that history really matters too much to the argument of what should happen now... you're just wrong there as well.
    Last edited by Phopojijo; 03-07-2011 at 03:58 PM.

  6. #66
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    ^^^ No, I wasn't asking, but commenting on what was presented... and to your credit, Phopo, it was you that mentioned the recent Canadian law.

  7. #67
    Joined
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    PETA might argue that man animal marriage is no different than heterosexual marriage or same sex marriage. Then of course there’s always NAMBLA… The point being where does it stop…

    I love my dog and my dog loves me. Where is it written that marriage can’t be a strictly platonic relationship? I mean I sure could use another dependent on my tax return.

  8. #68
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    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    I honestly don't think it makes much of a difference as to what other religions/cultures done or have done because people will continue to adopt new practices and ideals when a religious or cultural standard no longer suits them. Much like what kbohip did because the catholic church dissaptoves of his marriage.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  9. #69
    Joined
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    644

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    PETA might argue that man animal marriage is no different than heterosexual marriage or same sex marriage. Then of course there’s always NAMBLA… The point being where does it stop…

    I love my dog and my dog loves me. Where is it written that marriage can’t be a strictly platonic relationship? I mean I sure could use another dependent on my tax return.
    It stops when it's no longer a consensual relationship.

    Neither a dog, cow, horse, or child is considered a consenting partner due to the power differential and lack of maturity in decision making.

    If every member is a consenting partner in a relationship... it's their decision. If every member is NOT a consenting partner in a relationship... it's NOT their decision.

  10. #70
    Joined
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    Obamaland
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    9,532

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phopojijo View Post
    It stops when it's no longer a consensual relationship.

    Neither a dog, cow, horse, or child is considered a consenting partner due to the power differential and lack of maturity in decision making.

    If every member is a consenting partner in a relationship... it's their decision. If every member is NOT a consenting partner in a relationship... it's NOT their decision.
    :thumbs:
    Consenting human beings of no immediate relation. I think that would serve a sufficient and consistent definition of marriage that basically says you cannnot legally marry your toaster, goldfish or brother.

    And again if someone wants to do any of these things, I say have at it! It doesn't bother me.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  11. #71
    Joined
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    Location
    Obamaland
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    37
    Posts
    9,532

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phopojijo View Post
    It stops when it's no longer a consensual relationship.

    Neither a dog, cow, horse, or child is considered a consenting partner due to the power differential and lack of maturity in decision making.

    If every member is a consenting partner in a relationship... it's their decision. If every member is NOT a consenting partner in a relationship... it's NOT their decision.

    Consenting human beings of no immediate relation. I think that would serve a sufficient and consistent definition of marriage that covers all of the bases. basically says you cannot have a legally recognized marrige with your toaster, goldfish or brother.

    And again if someone wants to do any of these things, I say have at it! It doesn't bother me.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  12. #72
    Joined
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    Twain Harte, CA
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    20,453

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    ^^^ One problem... most people would disagree.

  13. #73
    Joined
    Aug 2003
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    USA
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    5,843

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustinC939 View Post
    How many times do I have to say this?
    There are victims of second hand smoke because second hand smoke is very obviously bad for you. Gay marriage has no victim. People are not going to die of cancer because gay people are getting married.
    I just see smokers as a market that has been suppressed for a long time because of anti-smoking laws.

    If they allow for smoking inside bars and a smoking section at restaurants, then that can quickly and effectively help the economy because smokers will have a place to go to and spend money without the fear of being ridiculed:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUEjnoWpdao

    Every time someone brings up gay marriage, that pops into my head.

    If we want to pick and choose what people can and can't do, then we must allow for other people to have a piece of the pie, too.

    After all, life is a choice...

  14. #74
    Joined
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    Kern River Valley, CA
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    71
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    21,605

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phopojijo View Post
    It stops when it's no longer a consensual relationship.

    Neither a dog, cow, horse, or child is considered a consenting partner due to the power differential and lack of maturity in decision making.

    If every member is a consenting partner in a relationship... it's their decision. If every member is NOT a consenting partner in a relationship... it's NOT their decision.

    Well, there are people in this society who believe animals share the same rights as humans. Including but not limited to the right to sue in a court of law. How the heck does an animal have the maturity in decision making to consent to that? Our society is ever evolving/changing and you are no one else can predict what will happen in the future. Aside from that I’ve seen dogs that are more mature than a lot of people I know.

    In some states kids can get married at 14 or 15 years old with parental consent and court approval. There is no way a 14 or 15 year old can give informed consent of make informed decisions no matter what the parents consent to or the court approves. It’s nothing less than an arranged marriage…

    US Marriage Laws
    http://usmarriagelaws.com/search/uni...nt/index.shtml



    POLITICAL CORRECTNESS

    A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

  15. #75
    Joined
    Sep 2008
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    Crazy AZ USA
    Posts
    3,516

    Re: Gay Marriage/Gay Rights/Etc.

    ^^^^ He lives!!!
    "We say in our platform that we believe that the right to coin money and issue money is a function of government....

    Those who are opposed to this proposition tell us that the issue of paper money is a function of the bank and that the government ought to go out of the banking business. I stand with Jefferson rather than with them, and tell them, as he did, that the issue of money is a function of the government and that the banks should go out of the governing business."

    William Jennings Bryan.

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