Should "Green/alternative" energy loans and subsidies continue?

[Invictus]

http://biggovernment.com/whall/2011/...as-top-donors/

Wow, look at the people who received money.

Ted Turner, the founder of CNN received 4.7 billion.

Al Gore received 529 million.

BP got 2.5 billion.Guess we paid for that cleanup after all.

Former treasury secretary Larry Summers 115 million.

And last but not least.The google guys combined almost 2.2 billion. I would think they had enough money already...

[SteveW]

Not just no, hell no.

[jimzinsocal]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...ag=mncol;lst;2


Pretty good report

[Enmore]

Another one bites the dust:

Ener1, who make electric car batteries has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. They'd received a stimulus grant from the Energy Department of $118 million in 2009 and it's only a year since VP Biden visited their new factory.

Apparently people aren't buying electric cars.

Well not enough are anyway. I actually saw my first electric car driving round the other day - A Nissan Leaf.

[AMDScooter]

^^^ There have been several other "Obama green tech" loans that went tits up recently as well. But you'll not hear much news about that.. go figure. Plenty of Hybrids on the road here on the left coast but that cannot save a company from a sh*tty business model that was probably doomed to fail from go. Bamma's bundlers are thankful for the taxpayer funded kickback though.

My neighbors own 2 hybrids. They had some friends over a week ago in a spankin' new Volt.. I felt like asking them to park the fire hazard across the street as a joke.

[kbohip]

Apparently people aren't buying electric cars.

Well not enough are anyway. I actually saw my first electric car driving round the other day - A Nissan Leaf.

Now come on Enmore, I'm sure you are seeing the new Smart electrics all over London by now, and with glowing reviews like this, why not? Some of my favorite quotes below:


"this car has an “ED” sticker on each flank. Just settle down with your Cialis quips. We’ve heard them (or made them) all already. It stands for “Electric Drive,” okay?"


"We were mentioning how little we drove the ED, but that’s not really true. Cumulatively, we did cover some miles and used up some of our lives operating this thing. We just did it in spurts, is all. We took it to lunch every day for a week. And yes, people laughed at us. To keep ourselves entertained, we investigated how much of our lunch commute we could perform at absolute full throttle. Turns out, most of it could be handled in this fashion. In fact, if you are not actively on the brakes, you’ll likely have it floored."

"We took the Smart ED for a couple of terrifying trips on an expressway posting a speed limit higher than the Smart’s. The less said of this, the better. Except we note, with some pride, that we actually managed to pass a ’90s Buick LeSabre. That the Buick driver was possibly not entirely conscious at the time is not our fault."



http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...d-test-reviews

[AMDScooter]

^^^^



Thanks for that!

So there you have it. With the ED, Smart has finally made its runabout into the golf cart that it has always wanted it to be. Well, except without room for your clubs. What do you think this is? A Nissan Leaf?

It is not a Leaf. A Leaf is quicker, faster, has a longer range, and feels remarkably like an automobile that non-clowns might drive. You can also buy a Leaf; you can only lease a Smart ED. And, oh, at $599 per month (plus $2500 down on a four-year lease), the Smart ED is also more expensive than the Leaf. Smart notes in its press materials that there is not currently a waiting list for the 250 EDs it intends to unload in the U.S.

Lemme guess. By unloading 250 of them here in the states they will qualify to be "blessed" with a few billion taxpayer $$ from Bamma's energy department.. or czar.. or some such other bullsh*t.

[kbohip]

^^^^



Thanks for that!



Lemme guess. By unloading 250 of them here in the states they will qualify to be "blessed" with a few billion taxpayer $$ from Bamma's energy department.. or czar.. or some such other bullsh*t.

Yeah, I was lmao reading that review. All that can be yours for ONLY $600 a month too Scoot! Oh, and that's for a lease!!! On another forum I frequent, there's a guy posting about how you can lease a Cadillac CTS for $200 a month. Hmmm, tough choice there! The golf cart for $600 or the luxury sports sedan for $200?

Oh, an about "Smarts". Every time I see some pathetic excuse for a man driving one I make it a point to laugh and point at him. I feel I'm only doing what he wants, as I can't imagine there would be any other reason to buy a clown car than to have people laugh at you.

[AMDScooter]

Yeah, I was lmao reading that review. All that can be yours for ONLY $600 a month too Scoot! Oh, and that's for a lease!!! On another forum I frequent, there's a guy posting about how you can lease a Cadillac CTS for $200 a month. Hmmm, tough choice there! The golf cart for $600 or the luxury sports sedan for $200?

Oh, an about "Smarts". Every time I see some pathetic excuse for a man driving one I make it a point to laugh and point at him. I feel I'm only doing what he wants, as I can't imagine there would be any other reason to buy a clown car than to have people laugh at you.

I saw 2 young women in one of those Smarts the other day at a stoplight... felt like rolling down the window and saying "that car makes your ass look big".

just saw this

Super. California votes to mandate more electric cars

Gubberment to the rescue!!

Have you purchased your new, all electric car yet? Me neither. Of course, I can’t decide whether it’s because I hate the environment, hate America, or a result of my severe allergy to burning to death in a fiery roadside inferno. But we shouldn’t feel too alone. It seems that drivers have been rather cool on the idea all over the country. This is producing a significant impact on Indiana in particular.

Reporting from Elkhart, Ind.— For politicians betting on electric vehicles to drive job growth, the view from inside Think City’s plant here is their worst nightmare: 100 unfinished vehicles lined up with no word on whether they will be completed.

Only two years ago, the tiny Think cars (two can fit in a regular parking space) were expected to bring more than 400 jobs to this ailing city and a lifeline to suppliers who once made parts for gas-guzzling recreational vehicles.

“We’ve said we’re out to make Indiana the electric vehicle state. It’s beginning to look like the state capital will be Elkhart County,” Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels said in January 2010 in announcing government incentives used to attract Think to his state.

Instead, the Hoosier State’s big bet has been a bust. The plant is devoid of activity; there are just two employees. A Russian investor who recently purchased Think’s bankrupt parent in Norway has been silent about its future. A government-backed Indianapolis battery maker that was to supply Think wrote off a $73-million investment in the car company and Thursday declared bankruptcy. Two unrelated electric truck makers Indiana planned to nurture have yet to get off the ground.

Well, that’s certainly bad news for the workers of Indiana. (Not to mention all of the taxpayers who funded this boondoggle.) But at least we can move on and hope that we learned something from the exercise, with the possibility in mind that additional technological advances will make such endeavors more financially viable in the future.

BUT WAIT! What was I thinking? There is clearly another solution right in front of our noses, and California has come up with just the fix for this dilemma. If people don’t want to buy these electric cars, we can just pass a law and make them buy them!

California air regulators passed sweeping emission standards Friday that will require one in seven of the new cars sold in the state in 2025 be an electric or other zero-emission vehicle.

The policy adopted unanimously by the California Air Resources Board mandates a 75 percent reduction in smog-forming pollutants by 2025, and a 50 percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from today’s standards.

I bet the car dealerships must just be doing back-flips in happiness over this eh? Turns out… not so much.

“

It’s hard to legislate or mandate what people want to drive or to need to drive,” said Lance Roberts, spokesman for the New Car Dealers Association of San Diego County.

“Certainly our dealers understand the need to continue to advance clean technology. By the same token, people have different needs. Dealers are caught in the middle.”

The new state policy mandates that a mix of 1.4 million zero-emission and plug-in hybrid vehicles be on the road by 2025, nearly triple the number being driven today.

What’s not explained in this report is exactly how the state government of California plans to enforce this mandate. If there aren’t enough electric vehicles sold, will they just send in the national guard to shut down the dealerships and prevent them from selling standard technology cars until a sufficient amount of people show up to buy the green models? Will you be arrested as you drive off the lot in your new Camaro if not enough people bought a Leaf that month?

One thing is for sure: don’t strap your dog carrier to the roof of your car after this. If you wind up with a crispy friend terrier on your car you’ll have PETA after you as well as the EPA and the state government.

[AMDScooter]

No economic or environmental case for wind power. Well.. no sh33t. Do tell.

Wind-power: inordinately expensive and ineffective at cutting CO2 emissions

The focus on wind-power, driven by the renewables targets, is preventing Britain from effectively reducing CO2 emissions, while crippling energy users with additional costs, according to a new Civitas report. The report finds that wind-power is unreliable and requires back-up power stations to be available in order to maintain a consistent electricity supply to households and businesses. This means that energy users pay twice: once for the window-dressing of renewables, and again for the fossil fuels that the energy sector continues to rely on. Contrary to the implied message of the Government’s approach, the analysis shows that wind-power is not a low-cost way of reducing emissions.

Electricity Costs: the folly of wind-power, by economist Ruth Lea, uses Government-commissioned estimates of the costs of electricity generation in the UK to calculate the most cost-effective technologies. When all costs are included, gas-fired power is the most cost-efficient method of generating electricity in the short-term, while nuclear power stations become the most cost-efficient in the medium-term.

. . .

[AMDScooter]

Well.. ain't that about as surprising as sand in the desert.

WaPo finds nearly $4 billion in green-tech stimulus funds went to WH-connected firms

[Mountain Mania]

Spending on green energy right now is wasteful, it hasn't created many jobs.

There have been many windmills (maybe a 1,000 or more) put in place in NORTHERN most NY State but so far its just costing lots of money to get them up.

[falcon_view]

This report was written some time back in the mid 90 and if I were to guess because of the price/gal that is stated in the report the year would be 94. You can search for a more detaild version of the report on their website.

http://www.progress.org/gasoline.htm

What do you think the pump price would be today if the 15x was applied?

Someone is looking after their own government tit when it comes to fuel subsidies.

When one of these breakthroughs comes to market watch out gasoline.
http://www.gizmag.com/energy-storage...created/19996/

[Dutchcedar]

^^^ Click the link and they talk about the cost of driving automobiles, not the cost of gasoline.

About fuel subsidies... I dunno. Again, they mention tax deductions for exploration costs. I don't see how that's any more of a subsidy than say, Solyndra deducting their research and development costs as an expense of doing business.

[falcon_view]

Artificial, anti-free-market subsidies don't end at the federal level, as the group said most state income taxes are in turn based on oil firms' lower federal tax bills, which result in companies paying $123 million to $323 million less in state taxes.

In addition to tax breaks, the federal government provides up to $114.6 billion to the wealthy industry in giveaways and subsidies annually that support the extraction, production and use of petroleum, such as research and development and export financing.

The federal government also spends up to $1.6 billion yearly on regulatory oversight, pollution cleanup and liability costs connected to the oil industry, the group said.

In addition, U.S. military spending allocated to guard the world's petroleum resources totals $55 billion to $96 billion a year, according to the group.