ObamaCare vs. the Catholic Church

[BlackDragon24]

I wonder what our glorious leader will pull out of his bag tricks next???

Oh wait?... Wave hands frantically… I know, I know…

Last stop birth control… abortion!…

That’s right ladies and gentlemen free abortions at every hospital, clinic, urgent care center and at all McDonalds locations.

All in the name of Womens Rights!



I wonder when the genocide of the unborn becomes equally as important as womens rights…

Hey now I do have a Carlin quote for this...circa mid 1990's...stands the test of time:

Why, why, why, why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to •••• in the first place, huh? Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're ••••••.

Conservatives don't give a shit about you until you reach 'military age'. Then they think you are just fine. Just what they've been looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. Pro-life... pro-life... These people aren't pro-life, they're killing doctors! What kind of pro-life is that? What, they'll do anything they can to save a fetus but if it grows up to be a doctor they just might have to kill it?They're not pro-life. You know what they are? They're anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman. They don't like them. They don't like women.They believe a woman's primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state.

Pro-life... You don't see many of these white anti-abortion women volunteering to have any black fetuses transplanted into their uteruses, do you? No, you don't see them adopting a whole lot of crack babies, do you? No, that might be something Christ would do. And, you won't see alot of these pro-life people dousing themselves in kerosene and lighting themselves on fire. You know, moraly committed religious people in South Vietnam knew how to stage a goddamn demonstration, didn't they?! They knew how to put on a ••••••• protest. Light yourself on FIRE!! C'mon, you moral crusaders, let's see a little smoke. To match that fire in your belly.

Here's another question I have: how come when it's us, it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette? Are we so much better than chickens all of a sudden? When did this happen, that we passed chickens in goodness? Name six ways we're better than chickens... See, nobody can do it! You know why? 'Cuz chickens are decent people. You don't see chickens hanging around in drug gangs, do you? No, you don't see a chicken strapping some guy to a chair and hooking up his nuts to a car battery, do you? When's the last chicken you heard about came home from work and beat the shit out of his hen, huh? Doesn't happen. 'Cuz chickens are decent people.

But let's get back to this abortion shit. Now, is a fetus a human being? This seems to be the central question. Well, if a fetus is a human being, how come the census doesn't count them? If a fetus is a human being, how come when there's a miscarriage they don't have a funeral? If a fetus is a human being, how come people say 'we have two children and one on the way' instead of saying 'we have three children?' People say life begins at conception, I say life began about a billion years ago and it's a continuous process. Continuous, just keeps rolling along. Rolling, rolling, rolling along.

And say you know something? Listen, you can go back further than that. What about the carbon atoms? Hah? Human life could not exist without carbon. So is it just possible that maybe we shouldn't be burning all this coal? Just looking for a little consistency here in these anti-abortion arguments. See the really hardcore people will tell you life begins at fertilization. Fertilization, when the sperm fertilizes the egg. Which is usually a few moments after the man says 'Gee, honey, I was going to pull out but the phone rang and it startled me.' Fertilization.

But even after the egg is fertilized, it's still six or seven days before it reaches the uterus and pregnancy begins, and not every egg makes it that far. Eighty percent of a woman's fertilized eggs are rinsed and flushed out of her body once a month during those delightful few days she has. They wind up on sanitary napkins, and yet they are fertilized eggs. So basically what these anti-abortion people are telling us is that any woman who's had more than more than one period is a serial killer! Consistency. Consistency. Hey, hey, if they really want to get serious, what about all the sperm that are wasted when the state executes a condemned man, one of these pro-life guys who's watching cums in his pants, huh? Here's a guy standing over there with his jockey shorts full of little Vinnies and Debbies, and nobody's saying a word to the guy. Not every ejaculation deserves a name.

Now, speaking of consistency, Catholics, which I was until I reached the age of reason, Catholics and other Christians are against abortions, and they're against homosexuals. Well who has less abortions than homosexuals?! Leave these ••••••• people alone, for Christ sakes! Here is an entire class of people guaranteed never to have an abortion! And the Catholics and Christians are just tossing them aside! You'd think they'd make natural allies. Go look for consistency in religion. And speaking of my friends the Catholics, when John Cardinal O'Connor of New York and some of these other Cardinals and Bishops have experienced their first pregnancies and their first labor pains and they've raised a couple of children on minimum wage, then I'll be glad to hear what they have to say about abortion. I'm sure it'll be interesting. Enlightening, too. But, in the meantime what they ought to be doing is telling these priests who took a vow of chastity to keep their hands off the altar boys! Keep your hands to yourself, Father! You know? When Jesus said 'Suffer the little children come unto me', that's not what he was talking about!

So you know what I tell these anti-abortion people? I say 'Hey. Hey. If you think a fetus is more important that a woman, try getting a fetus to wash the shit stains out of your underwear. For no pay and no pension.' I tell them 'Think of an abortion as term limits. That's all it is. Bioligical term limits.

Amen.

[kbohip]

Maybe the Catholic church should pay for abortions. Think about it. Most women who have them are of the "keep your hand's off my body" feminist type anyway right? Talk about a great way to eradicate any future problems!

I kid! I kid!

[Cobra_nVidia]

That's the ironic thing about killing human fetuses. "Abortion" is an obligation in China, and what's the result? A society that is increasingly male.

Neither birth control nor abortion are "women's issues" or related to sexism. In fact, on average, men probably want the girls they have sex with to get pregnant a lot less than the girls do. But tapping into a hatred of men or pretending to be a victim is generally a good way to get votes.

[PSFRT]

A perspective . Im a surgical Tech at a Catholic hospital Im a man not a catholicand where as ive taken a woman to planned parent hood the morning after and paid out of my pocket for the morning after pill. ( I dont see it as abortion)I have to side with the Catholics on this. They shouldnt have to pay for it and all this bs about Access ... the same Dr that you go to will still perscribe it you go to the same pharmacy to pick it up but the Catholic church isnt gonna cover the tab. I dont see the problem. Its against policy to perform elective abortions and perform sterilization procedures where i work. Yet ive held a fetus and taken testicles and cut tubes bilaterally ... why.. they were medically necessary. The Drs. involved document thoroughly so all the what ifs are bs too. Ive argued this too my wife but access is just another word for free. Its entitlement b.s. and war on religion under the guise of womens rights. Too bad women eat that s*** up.



By the way one arguement about the beginnings of life on this forum has special meaning to me. (Orang once this brought up)If life starts at conception and humans have a soul do identical twins who start as one at conception then divide share a soul or are they 2 different People. It made me scratch my head a bit Well after as of last July Im the father of identical twin boys so maybe ill have an answer in the next 20 or so years but it seems to me they are different people an have thier own souls. But i see life as a process and if I have the knowledge the process has started it is wrong for me to interfere. If that seems contradictory to my previous stated actions we do grow up a bit from 20 to 30. Anys ways though i dont post often it is nice to remember that some things that are stated here do leave lasting impressions upon people.

[Nate]

This all should have been debated BEFORE the health care law was passed.

[JustinC939]

^^ I think they should have made it so employers no longer provide health insurance, and make it affordable for individuals to purchase their own plans and decide for themselves.

[AMDScooter]

This all should have been debated BEFORE the health care law was passed.

But nanners said we had to pass it.. so we can see what's in it.

[omegasteve]

^^ I think they should have made it so employers no longer provide health insurance, and make it affordable for individuals to purchase their own plans and decide for themselves.

I agree. Everyone should be self-employed and get paid more to compensate for vacation and benefits and then you pick which insurance you want that you pay for by yourself.

[baghdad bob]

hell yeah! they lose their tax loop hole and get choose whether to purchase contraception coverage.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...230307,00.html

Sect. 2042: Deduction for health insurance costs in computing self-employment taxes in 2010

Generally, small business owners may not deduct the cost of health insurance when calculating self-employment tax. Under the Small Business Jobs Act, and subject to specific statutory restrictions (i.e. deduction is not available if self-employed individual is eligible to participate in an employer-subsidized health plan maintained by the employer of the taxpayer or the employer of the taxpayer's spouse), business owners can deduct the cost of health insurance for themselves and their family in the calculation of their 2010 self-employment tax.

Employer-Sponsored Health Insurance:
The Single Largest Tax Subsidy in the Federal Budget

The federal tax expenditure is only part of the picture. Factoring in state personnel and federal payroll taxes, Selden and Gray estimate the total annual tax expenditure for just the exclusion of employer-related health insurance in 2006 to be $208.6 billion. (This figure is still an underestimate by several billions because it does not include tax expenditures for FSA, HRAs, and HSAs.)

but most will fall under the tax code provided to the my employer doesn't offer health insurance.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5232993_he...ductible_.html

Premiums paid for private health insurance can also be tax-deductible. The premiums for medical insurance and other expenses need to be included as itemized deductions on the tax return. In addition, a tax benefit will only be obtained if expenses exceed 7.5 percent of an individual's adjusted gross income (AGI). This means that 7.5 percent of AGI is deducted from the total amount of health insurance premiums paid to obtain the amount of the deduction.

bb

[tucker]

Hey now I do have a Carlin quote for this...circa mid 1990's...stands the test of time:



Amen.

Carlin was a funny guy and he came up with believable irony of everyday life in a sometimes funny way. That doesn’t mean a lot of his comedy wasn’t apple and oranges comparisons. That doesn’t mean his misconceptions of what people really do or think is even near the truth.

[kbohip]

So men will be getting free condoms from this scheme too right? I mean, it's only fair. Strange how that is not even talked about at all.

[baghdad bob]

despite the idea having some merit, since it wasn't brought up at the issa all male panel and it stinks of compromise, must be considered to be a non starter.

one should also remember that real men don't use condoms. real men don't know how to properly use a condom because instruction videos are pornographic. the use of condoms helps prevent disease and unwanted pregnancies. the use of condoms promotes promiscuity and homosexual activities.

i'm guessing the demand is just not there but

Rush Limbaugh is right about free D.C. condoms

The D.C. Department of Health does, like other government health agencies and many nonprofit organizations, offer free condoms and personal lubricant.

Most condoms and lube are made available to “community partners and business establishments” as part of the city’s efforts to combat its high HIV/AIDS rate. But individual residents can, in fact, fill out an online form and have a package of 10 free condoms mailed to them directly. No mention of lubricant.

bb

[Dutchcedar]

As in most discussions surrounding politics and new laws, we should have first gone to the money. I feel I've been duped in this entire debate, 'cause this makes more sense than anything:

The Obama administration’s mandate that all health insurance companies must provide coverage for contraceptives has set off an explosive debate about religious freedom and women’s health issues. The attention has been focused on the administration’s insistence that religious institutions, such as Catholic hospitals and schools, would be required to offer the benefit for their employees, even though it contradicts church teaching. But completely ignored is the more fundamental problem: this mandate is not only about the bedroom, it’s about the boardroom. You’ve heard of crony capitalism? Well this is America’s first example of crony contraceptives.

Forget for a minute the religious question and look at who wins big here: Big Pharma. This mandate is not really about condoms or generic versions of “the pill,” which are available free or cheap in lots of places. This is about brand-name birth control drugs and other devices that some consumers swear off because they are too expensive. The Health and Human Services (HHS) mandate requires health-insurance companies provide contraceptive coverage for all “FDA approved contraceptive methods.” It does not insist on generics. And it does not offer any cost containment.

What’s more, the mandate prevents health-insurance companies from having copays or deductibles for the benefit. This is the perfect set up for Big Pharma. Since the drugs will be paid for by a third party (insurance companies, who will pass the cost on to employers and the rest of us), the consumer won’t worry about the price. Expensive brand names will no doubt see demand rise. Ask more health-care analysts why the cost of medical services continues to rise so rapidly and near the top of the list is the fact that a third-party payment system won’t contain costs.

Back in 2009, many observers were surprised when Big Pharma came out in favor of President Obama’s health-care reform bill. The industry spent millions running television ads in favor of the law and industry lobbyists pushed hard for it. One important reason they did so was the promise that with the new law they would have a new market of millions of new customers. The contraceptive mandate is a perfect example.

more...

[Cobra_nVidia]

So men will be getting free condoms from this scheme too right? I mean, it's only fair. Strange how that is not even talked about at all.

Well if the women are getting free birth control, the guys don't have to use condoms (and they won't lemme tell you). Which is why this mandate is so popular.

I'll tell you what, having free condomns and birth control will be handy in case you are diagnosed with gonna-have-sex-in-the-near-future-and-don't-wanna-pay-for-my-own-choices. I mean, you really can't see those things coming.

And forcing people to accept the consequences of their actions when the government could do it for them, is called "Sexism" buster. Loose all the hate, and PAY UP!!!

[baghdad bob]

i knew once the rush comments hit the news, the gop and primary candidates were going to have to comment, otherwise every reporter was going to be asking the same question, over and over again. responses of inappropriate, absurd and not my choice of words soon followed.

then after rush milked the situation for 3 days his response:

Limbaugh Apologizes for Attack on Student in Birth Control Furor

“For over 20 years, I have illustrated the absurd with absurdity, three hours a day, five days a week. In this instance, I chose the wrong words in my analogy of the situation. I did not mean a personal attack on Ms. Fluke,” Mr. Limbaugh wrote. He then reiterated his opposition to the Obama administration policy, which requires health insurance plans to cover contraceptives for women.

even the catholic church, with it self inflicted erosion of it's own integrity, is going to lose even more with help of rush and the present day gop. thing is every daily newspaper, internet news source and television news cast featured rush's opinion. one thing to cater to the fringe but another to have the whole country hear. this is gonna stay around like the spray of a skunk.

More Limbaugh advertisers jump ship

"No one with daughters the age of Sandra Fluke, and I have two, could possibly abide the insult and abuse heaped upon this courageous and well-intentioned young lady," Carbonite CEO David Friend said. "Mr. Limbaugh, with his highly personal attacks on Miss Fluke, overstepped any reasonable bounds of decency. Even though Mr. Limbaugh has now issued an apology, we have nonetheless decided to withdraw our advertising from his show. We hope that our action, along with the other advertisers who have already withdrawn their ads, will ultimately contribute to a more civilized public discourse."

bb