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Thread: Flu shots

  1. #1
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    Flu shots

    My mom called me and told me I should get a flu shot. I thought they were just for little kids and old people. Now she's really bugging me to get one and says that everybody gets them these days.

    Should I get one? Do you get one? Do healthy adults need one? As Jerry Seinfeld would say, what's the deal with flu shots?
    Last edited by Keven; 12-11-2012 at 06:22 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: Flu shots

    They encourage everyone to get one, just that they especially recommend them for small children and the elderly. I haven't gotten one this year, though I probably should have since my company brought some people doing free shots as part of a larger activity a few months back.

    I just don't want to catch the autism /s


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  3. #3
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    Re: Flu shots

    Autism is infectious? When did this happen?

  4. #4
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    Re: Flu shots

    I never get the flu.
    Have never had a flu shot.
    See no reason to start now.

  5. #5
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    Re: Flu shots

    lol

    I think he/she is referring to the link between autism and certain shots (MMR?). AFAIK, the flu shot isnt among them and it affects mostly younger boys. I do believe, however, that it may deliver other undesirable things and is not worth it. Check the documentation for side effects first then decide if you want live pathogens in you to HOPEFULLY safeguard against said pathogens.

  6. #6
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    Re: Flu shots

    Quote Originally Posted by ea1985 View Post
    lol

    I think he/she is referring to the link between autism and certain shots (MMR?). AFAIK, the flu shot isnt among them and it affects mostly younger boys. I do believe, however, that it may deliver other undesirable things and is not worth it. Check the documentation for side effects first then decide if you want live pathogens in you to HOPEFULLY safeguard against said pathogens.
    yea it was a joke. I was referring to the "link" that was posed in a paper that was later retracted due to data manipulation and inconsistencies that lead to the conclusion of the paper being flawed and the authors being completely discredited. Of course the media got involved and Jenny McCarthy decided that she knew more about science and medicine then people who have dedicated their lives to medical science. And then people like you come along and perpetuate the fallacy by claiming that its "not worth it". I'm sure the thousands of unvaccinated people who have died of preventable illnesses in the US, at least a few of them victims of anti-vaccine joke science, would beg to differ. I'd like to think you're aware that these vaccines go through large scale trials before being approved and are proven safe and effective, whether they contain live viral antigens or not (and not all do BTW)


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  7. #7
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    Re: Flu shots

    I've never gotten a flu shot and never will. They are a bad joke imo as they only protect you against one strain of the virus anyway. I personally know a man in his early sixties that went in for a flu shot as healthy as can be and within a week was dead. The doctors of course had no idea what killed him. My friend is a cop who is a big believer in the flu shot and gets one every year. In his occupation, I can see the reasoning behind it as he's exposed to sick people on a fairly consistent basis. Unfortunately he also makes his young daughter get one which makes her sick as a dog for at least two days afterwards every single year. The flu is definitely nothing to mess around with, but they make it out to be a worse killer than cancer nowadays. This morning I heard on the radio that the first person ever to die of the flu in the state of Colorado just occurred. Hardly the deadly epidemic they want people to believe it is. The only way I'll ever go for a flu shot is if there is a very deadly strain that starts spreading and they can vaccinate against that particular strain. Until then, I've had the flu. It wasn't a big deal.

  8. #8
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    Re: Flu shots

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip View Post
    I personally know a man in his early sixties that went in for a flu shot as healthy as can be and within a week was dead. The doctors of course had no idea what killed him.
    Correlation does not imply causation. Have you also considered the fact that he ate a ham sandwich the day before, or the fact that he used 4 more sheets of toilet paper than usual that week? Just because you've got some preconceived notion about why this guy died doesn't mean very much, just like the fact that I've had at least a dozen flu shots and never felt anything more than a sore shoulder the next day doesn't mean much either. Taken on aggregate, vaccinations are the right thing to do and people who don't vaccinate their children against things like measles are a detriment to society.


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  9. #9
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    Re: Flu shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Activate: AMD View Post
    Correlation does not imply causation. Have you also considered the fact that he ate a ham sandwich the day before, or the fact that he used 4 more sheets of toilet paper than usual that week? Just because you've got some preconceived notion about why this guy died doesn't mean very much, just like the fact that I've had at least a dozen flu shots and never felt anything more than a sore shoulder the next day doesn't mean much either. Taken on aggregate, vaccinations are the right thing to do and people who don't vaccinate their children against things like measles are a detriment to society.
    Don't assume that because I have a problem with the flu shot in particular, I have a problem with all vaccines. My children have gotten all of their shots and I have no problem with them. As a matter of fact, there is one vaccine I would've loved to have gotten as a child but it wasn't available then. The chickenpox vaccine. I can tell you from personal experience that getting the chickenpox at age 25 is no fun at all.

    As for the older guy I knew, I can only go off of what I know to be true. He was perfectly healthy before the flu shot and was dead a week after getting it. I'm not saying that it was the flu shot that killed him, but I am saying that it was one Hell of a coincidence if ti didn't.

  10. #10
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    Re: Flu shots

    Well, my opinion on the "flu shots are bad for you" thing: Hospitals require doctors to get them. I don't think doctors would get them if they thought they were bad for you. If millions of doctors were being held down and being injected against their will, we'd probably hear about it. My tentative objection to the flu shot is the fact that I'm lazy and I don't think I need one. Not any moral or safety concerns.

    Besides, I still remember the H1N1 outbreak when the United States was "running out" of flu shots with everybody rushing to get them. I don't want to take somebody else's flu shot either. Although, I see the line for flu shots at Sam's Club and nobody is ever in it.

  11. #11
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    Re: Flu shots

    Quote Originally Posted by kbohip View Post
    Don't assume that because I have a problem with the flu shot in particular, I have a problem with all vaccines. My children have gotten all of their shots and I have no problem with them. As a matter of fact, there is one vaccine I would've loved to have gotten as a child but it wasn't available then. The chickenpox vaccine. I can tell you from personal experience that getting the chickenpox at age 25 is no fun at all.

    As for the older guy I knew, I can only go off of what I know to be true. He was perfectly healthy before the flu shot and was dead a week after getting it. I'm not saying that it was the flu shot that killed him, but I am saying that it was one Hell of a coincidence if ti didn't.

  12. #12
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    Re: Flu shots

    Quote Originally Posted by modru2004 View Post
    ROFL. I deserved that.

  13. #13
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    Re: Flu shots

    @ Activate: AMD

    Now exactly how did I perpetuate a fallacy? The "not worth it" statement was referring to the flu shot and its side effects including skyrocketing DEATHS (I admit, I could have been clearer). But there is no fallacy to begin with; muchless to perpetuate. The fallacy is predicated upon the establishment of facts and it has never been established in the first place that the flu shot in particular was "worth it." AAMOF, the CDCs own data suggests that it amounts to a waste of time. Their National Vital Statistics Reports show yearly that only a few hundred die from the flu - way less than the national suicide rate - NOT the tens of thousands that they, the media and drug companies misleadingly state. Of the 30,000+ often quote in order to scare a gullible population, the highest recorded actual deaths were just over 1700 - over a decade ago - as low as 257 in 2003 and 494 in 2010 (NVIC). That number hardly reaches the 1000s so the CDC employs tricks like modeling, gross estimations and lumping actual flu deaths with pneumonia or "pneumonia like" deaths. In their vol 52, #3 report from Sept 2003, that total was over 62,000 - a number that creates effect. Once separated, actual flu deaths turned out to be 257. Again for 2001, they claimed 62,034 deaths combined, but only 257 from the flu, of which only 18 were positively identified as flu. But big numbers are what sell.

    These discrepancies have existed for decades and people have bought it even though the truth was also right in their faces. The CDC - like the government - knows that the apathy, ignorance and arrested state of the sheeple is a guarantee of unaccountability. This is one reason why they can admit that "CDC does not know exactly how many people die from seasonal flu each year." It is also why the lies and deceptions will not stop. For example, does it make sense that on one hand, the 1969 Hong Kong flu that killed over 30,000 was categorized as a pandemic, yet on the other, that very figure is loosely tossed around with an even higher 60,000+ influenza/pneumonia death toll, except to absolutely no hype or hysteria? Arent those still pandemic numbers in this day? Or maybe inflation and future value have reduced their significance?

    I'd like to think you're aware that these vaccines go through large scale trials before being approved and are proven safe and effective...
    Is that what your doctor told you? Well it certainly does not apply to influenza vaccines, and increasingly less so to others. The term "large scale trials" means absolutely nothing; it is ambiguous and relative. It may sound good, but thats about it. Furthermore, large scale trials of ineffective or dangerous drugs does not prove anything beyond what a drug company wants them to prove. The FDA does not conduct its own trials, testing or verification. Instead it relies on the data from the pharmaceuticals as proof. Here is something "safe and effective:" between 1999 and 2002, the flu death rates among children under 5 was on the decline. After the CDC voted to include that group in 2003, that rate sharply increased almost 300%. As reported by the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System, the H1N1 flu shot in 2009 resulted in at least 178 miscarriages. Other reports suggest that the numbers could actually have been in the thousands.

    I'm sure the thousands of unvaccinated people who have died of preventable illnesses in the US...
    Cite a source.

    Looking at the CDCs 2008-09 data (document nvsr61_07 in the above link), the preventable stuff (heart disease, stroke, diabetes) accounted for about 32% of the deaths among males and 33% for females. Nothing in that file suggests that a vaccine would have saved them. If you're referring to the flu, again, its combined with pneumonia at 2.1% and 2.3% respectively - the result of inaccurate, flawed agenda-driven CDC statistical modeling. Once broken down, it will obviously be a big joke, moving from #8 of the top 10 causes of death to well off the top 25. There is no conclusive evidence that vaccines are effective against the flu. Studies (like Cochrane Collaboration) either show marginal effectiveness (in small children) or no noticeable differences from placebo control. What there is ample evidence of is that hundreds of thousands of people are KILLED in the US annually by the medical system (more on that in a few).

    In addition to questionable efficacy, the contents of the flu shot have been of major concern in recent years - so much so that doctors, nurses and officials avoid it like the plague. The latest 2012-13 vaccines are targeting three virii: influenza B, H3N2, and H1N1. That means they contain those antigens (or pathogens, as I referr to H1N1). I wont delve into the antigens as I wont do anything of that scope any justice. You may be interested to know though, that they come up with the combinations each year through the sophisticated process of guessing which flu virus will spread over the coming flu season. How often do they get it right (the so-called good vaccine years)? About 50%. So that leaves them in the wrong 50% of the time. Combine that with the lack of solid evidence of efficacy and you have a big problem. In this linked article, Dr. John Briffa muses about another CDC piece calling for vaccines for health workers:

    Oddly, for something aimed at health professionals, it cites no studies.
    and on a radio programme: The issue of the evidence for this practice came up. The doctor in the radio studio was not only unable to cite any evidence but also stated that there MUST be evidence, otherwise our government would not be advising that we have these shots.

    I’d like to say that such naivety is a rare thing in medicine, but my experience tells me that it is not.


    He concludes: Beware when governments and the doctors and scientists paid by them urge us to do things but do not cite appropriate evidence (as is the case with the recent missive from Dr. Kosowski).

    These folks may put forth a case that seems like a no-brainer. What is often going on is that they’re hoping that individuals will not look at the evidence base, engage their brains, and think for themselves.


    Finally, to the good folks "who have dedicated their lives to medical science" and our well being. I wonder how they would take the rather sad commentary on US health (actually, I'm not wondering ). The US leads in just about every bad metric from cancer, diabetes and heart disease, and trails badly in others (low birth weight, infant mortality and life expectancies form teens to octogenarians). Relevant to this post is the breakdown of deaths caused by the US medical system - doctors. According to the author, the health care system not only contributes to poor health from its adverse effects, but it is the THIRD leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer. Between 225,000 and 284,000 people who trust in those who know "more about science and medicine" than anyone else, perish in those very capable hands every year. Now tell me, would they "beg to differ?"

    source: Dr. Barbara Starfield, Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene Public Health. Journal of the American Medical Association, 7/26/2000, Vol 284, #4.

    I'll leave it at that but my advice to the OP and others is to do research, draw your own conclusions and be resolute and confident. Its difficult to tell these days, but that should still be among the few rights you have remaining. Do not place too much faith in your doctor; the truth is that he/she is likely naive and is there to peddle drugs, without which they would be out of work. Many doctors dont even bother to read drug package inserts and are often taken by surprise by an informed or inquisitive patient (be careful with those; they can be arrogant and condescending). They rarely, if ever, would see the pharmaceuticals data or familiarize themselves with protocols (to be fair, it's not really their jobs), yet are all too happy to regurgitate the pharmaceutical's lines. For that reason more weight should be placed on the researchers, especially the independent ones. Try following the money, and be ever conscious of the fact that science is always changing - today's scientific 'fact' may be tomorrows rubbish. Be open.

    I'm not worrying about the flu shot, and it doesnt seem like the CDC is either. This piece in the Washington Post was both on point (see the Take-Home Messages section at the bottom) and revealing to that end: "When it became aware of the vaccine shortage last October, the federal government changed course and tried to reassure Americans that going without a shot was no big deal. "We all need to take a deep breath. This is not an emergency," CDC director Julie Gerberding advised the public."

    So yea, the yearly flu hype, specifically, its purveyors - the CDC, pharmaceuticals and their mass media darlings are the real problem. It is on them that the attention and the "people like you" type of comments should be focused. Or just continue making the John Holdrens of the world proud.

  14. #14
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    Re: Flu shots

    Quote Originally Posted by ea1985 View Post
    lol
    I do believe, however, that it may deliver other undesirable things and is not worth it. Check the documentation for side effects first then decide if you want live pathogens in you to HOPEFULLY safeguard against said pathogens.
    Not all flu vaccines (most probably don't) contain live pathogens (and that's with the assumption you consider viruses to be 'alive'). And perhaps most of the side effects listed in the documentation have next to nothing to do with the flu shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    Well, my opinion on the "flu shots are bad for you" thing: Hospitals require doctors to get them.
    Is this actually true? And is it actually legal? I know not all doctors take all vaccines that are available to them. I'm surprised if in the US vaccines are forced on people, especially flu vaccines...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Dog View Post
    I never get the flu.
    Have never had a flu shot.
    See no reason to start now.
    You never get into a bad car accident until you do either though... Might as well still you wear a seat belt though?

  15. #15
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    Re: Flu shots

    Quote Originally Posted by Pehu View Post
    Is this actually true? And is it actually legal? I know not all doctors take all vaccines that are available to them. I'm surprised if in the US vaccines are forced on people, especially flu vaccines...
    Yes. It's required by state law in some states.

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