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Thread: Renewed AWB ?

  1. #316
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    ^^^ Guitars and submarines.

  2. #317
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pehu View Post
    If you think that the US government isn't tightly controlling the use and development - in addition to ownership - of submarines (yes, even those in the Bahamas and places...), you are simply wrong. Maybe you should buy a James Cameron little submersible and try to do what you suggested. You might be in for a surprise. I do know of a submarine company that was basically forced out of business by the US government (...and as it happens it is the company that did develop and manufacture the submarines used by James Cameron in the filming of Titanic... granted that the Cold War had more than a little something to do with it.).

    That said, pretty much everything else you say, I have to agree with.
    I think you're mistaken. They have Coast Guard requirements on passenger submarines, but there's nothing stopping a private individual from driving himself around in his own submarine.

    From the website for US Submarines, a submarine manufacturer:

    A private owner does not need a license to operate the submarine for leisure purposes but our in-house training program must be satisfactorily completed by the operator. In addition, if the submarine will be carrying passengers for hire in U.S. waters, then the crew must meet U.S. Coast Guard manning requirements. This means that the Captain is required to have a U.S.C.G. Master's license for a surface vessel of equivalent tonnage (500 tons in the case of the Seattle 1000) and will have to complete our training course which includes 40 hours of pilot in command time and 40 dives and surfaces and then take a U.S.C.G. examination based on our manuals. The successful applicant will then have a submarine endorsement added to their license.
    But, my point was that "submarines and nuclear weapons" was a stupid example. "Will the 2nd amendment lead to people trying to own M60 machine guns and rocket launchers?" - That's a good question to ask. Saying the 2nd Amendment just will end up with people trying to own submarines and nuclear weapons is just moronic.
    Last edited by Keven; 02-18-2013 at 03:07 PM.

  3. #318
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    ^^^ Its the usual attempt to squash an analogy or to justify the stupidity of another liberal's assertion. As long as the point is obscured or the core arguments are passed over, all is well in fantasy land.

  4. #319
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    Now you're just leading us down a semantic about modern liberalism vs. classical liberalism, right-wing vs. left-wing and what all that means. You might as well be Meridian with that crap.
    Well I don't necessarily qualify as a classical liberal, to be honest and I'm not that worried about labels because people are always accusing others of being the worst extreme of a political ideology often for a single opinion on one subject. But if that's what I am in their eyes, then so be it.
    I think of myself as a liberal with libertarian views although I do not identify with libertarians entirely.
    [/quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Keven View Post
    Considering there are people out there (Tony Bennett, my neighbor) who think all guns should be banned, handguns, rifles, shotguns, assault weapons, .22 pea shooters and to hell with hunting, sport shooting, whatever, I'd say you're not too far to the left on gun control because there are those people out there.
    Well the fact that I think we should lift all local gun control regulations and go with the current federal standard for all states, counties, townships, cities, etc. puts me in the nutjob zone according to some people.


    As another election draws near; the G.O.P. are yet again filled with a stupid confidence that the they will win the White House. What they don't realize about people like Trump, Carson, and Cruz is that their rhetoric only resonates within an echo chamber, but not the American people. They live in an illusion of falsehood and distorted truth and only seek information and opinions that confirm these beliefs and instantly reject anything that contradicts them because only their opinions matter. Their notion of freedom is freedom for themselves and those alike to them, but not the rest of the country which has changed.
    These are the reasons why the G.O.P is set to lose in 2016. And when that happens, rest assured that they will have myriad of conspiracy theories blaming everyone and everything from the liberal media, to Oprah, to welfare moms, and pretty much everyone but their own disgusting selves.



  5. #320
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutchcedar View Post
    ^^^ Its the usual attempt to squash an analogy or to justify the stupidity of another liberal's assertion. As long as the point is obscured or the core arguments are passed over, all is well in fantasy land.
    Its funny because the original comment Keven posted about submarines and nuclear weapons? Everyone knew what she meant right? She doesn't want people owning military grade weapons...or otherwise weapons that usually require some sort of military training to operate. We all shouldn't own nuclear weapons. You know what she meant. Keven knew what she meant. But you guys have spent half a page now discussing about how stupid she is because of what....context?

    Its the usual attempt by a conservative to squash an analogy or to justify the stupidity of a conservative's assertion. As long as the point is obscured or the core arguments are passed over, all is well in conservative fantasy land.


  6. #321
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    Actually BD, I'm not sure *she* knows what she means. One very basic problem with the entire gun debate is a lack of understanding of weapons by those who favor gun control. Far too often they clearly don't know the subject material. A recent example is the Missouri guy who put forth the bill that would require giving up or destroying a wide range of weapons. On one hand the guy says he wants to eliminate a whole host of weapons based upon a set of broad features he defined, and on the other he says he's not going after anything hunting related. He's just going after the dangerous stuff, you know? Problem is I've got an old .22 rifle that would be banned under his broad language. As a kid I used it for plinking gophers and rats. Now it largely sits unused, but I have had it out to teach my kids about basic firearms safety, terminology, etc. Golly, its magazine will hold up to 14 .22 bullets, so it's suddently a dangerous weapon that should be destroyed.

    It's like the Time Magazine poll I mentioned here a while ago. According to them, 49% of households have a gun or guns and 49% do not. OK, great. Then they ask if gun laws make purchasing too easy, too restrictive, or are just about right. Seriously. If you don't own a gun what are the odds you understand what it takes to purchase one?

    The fuel of this debate centers of ignorance and fear. The lefties like Gwen Moore often base their definitions on little more than outward appearance. If a long gun has a pistol grip or is all black, oooh, that's a dangerous one. They quickly resort to hyperbole, as Kevin showed. Then you've got the clown in Chicago, blaming gun violence on Sarah Palin. Really? Chicago didn't have a gun problem before she hit the national scene? Wow, that isn't how I remember it. I wager most of the young punks plugging other young punks in Chicago couldn't pick Sarah Palin out of a line-up.

  7. #322
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Its funny because the original comment Keven posted about submarines and nuclear weapons? Everyone knew what she meant right? She doesn't want people owning military grade weapons...or otherwise weapons that usually require some sort of military training to operate.
    In other words, what you heard her to mean was... Squirrel!!!

  8. #323
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    I donít know where they came up with the idea guns should only be used for hunting or target practice. Thatís clearly a simple minded approach and clearly not what the constitution intended. I own a lot of guns for different reasons. Some are for hunting, some for target practice, some for protection and some are collectorís items. I have a lot of money tied up in my gun collection and thereís no way in hell Iíll let the government or anybody else take them away from me. Secondly Iím a strong believer in constitutional rights, liberty and personal freedoms for those reasons thereís no way in hell Iíll ever let the government take them away from meÖ periodÖ

    An unarmed population is a helpless population. If you donít think the corrupt agenda driven politicians know that you are very naive.

  9. #324
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackDragon24 View Post
    Its funny because the original comment Keven posted about submarines and nuclear weapons? Everyone knew what she meant right? She doesn't want people owning military grade weapons...or otherwise weapons that usually require some sort of military training to operate. We all shouldn't own nuclear weapons. You know what she meant. Keven knew what she meant. But you guys have spent half a page now discussing about how stupid she is because of what....context?

    Its the usual attempt by a conservative to squash an analogy or to justify the stupidity of a conservative's assertion. As long as the point is obscured or the core arguments are passed over, all is well in conservative fantasy land.

    There's a difference between "assault weapons" or even heavy machine guns like an M60 or something and "submarines [which aren't illegal] and nuclear weapons".

    No one thinks private citizens should be allowed to own nuclear weapons.

    What if I ran around saying that the legalization of abortion will lead to women trying to kill their kids postpartum?

    It's moronic. Nobody, not even Wayne LaPierre, thinks people should be able to own nuclear weapons.

    It's a nonsensical slippery slope strawman argument.

    And to go off the vibes of myv65, fully automatic weapons have been illegal in the US since 1934. These "assault weapons" are essentially the same gun as grandpa's old woodstock .22 rifle. You pull the trigger once, it fires once. If you look at the NY assault weapons ban, passed at midnight without constituent input, it bans things like "pistol grips" and "plastic heat guards on the barrel". These aren't weapons of war. On the left, there's a fundamental lack of understanding of guns.

    There's a reason the AR-15 is the 'civilian' variant of the M16/M4.

    I also wonder why Gwen Moore didn't give a shit about gun control when blacks use handguns to kill blacks. But, when a white guy uses an AR-15 to shoot up a school of white kids, suddenly, we MUST do something.
    Last edited by Keven; 02-19-2013 at 03:37 PM.

  10. #325
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    Brian

  11. #326
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    I donít know where they came up with the idea guns should only be used for hunting or target practice. Thatís clearly a simple minded approach and clearly not what the constitution intended. I own a lot of guns for different reasons. Some are for hunting, some for target practice, some for protection and some are collectorís items. I have a lot of money tied up in my gun collection and thereís no way in hell Iíll let the government or anybody else take them away from me. Secondly Iím a strong believer in constitutional rights, liberty and personal freedoms for those reasons thereís no way in hell Iíll ever let the government take them away from meÖ periodÖ

    An unarmed population is a helpless population. If you donít think the corrupt agenda driven politicians know that you are very naive.

  12. #327
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    Quote Originally Posted by tucker View Post
    I donít know where they came up with the idea guns should only be used for hunting or target practice. Thatís clearly a simple minded approach and clearly not what the constitution intended. I own a lot of guns for different reasons. Some are for hunting, some for target practice, some for protection and some are collectorís items. I have a lot of money tied up in my gun collection and thereís no way in hell Iíll let the government or anybody else take them away from me. Secondly Iím a strong believer in constitutional rights, liberty and personal freedoms for those reasons thereís no way in hell Iíll ever let the government take them away from meÖ periodÖ

    An unarmed population is a helpless population. If you donít think the corrupt agenda driven politicians know that you are very naive.
    You know, I've never seen a document that has been so compromised to the point that the younger generation has lost sight of the plain English and meaning. It's like they don't understand how it identifies us as a uniquely free populace or understand the forces at work INSIDE THE GOVERNMENT to undermine it. In all branches.

    When the constitution came out, we had an armed populace that could also serve as a standard militia. This worked to THE ADVANTAGE of both the people AND the government. People did not run around with cannons, they were armed with weapons that were acceptable military standard issue as well as used for hunting, etc. The government did not have to supply these people with arms so they did not need to spend a lot on large armories. Guns were not a control issue to the government then, but something they could readily take advantage of. Something that today's government could learn from. I see nothing wrong with standard GI-like arms in the hands of the people. In fact, I think every able-bodied person ought to be trained on weapons use. I can take down a deer with an AR single-shot easy, but there are better and cheaper weapons to do that with. Going with and SAR is fine because many of them are a fairly simple mod away from being military issue.

    I do, however, have issues with selling such weapons to known offenders, and so on. There should also be a gray and/or blacklist- some COMMON SENSE regulation. But I refuse to disarm to cave into some political jacka$$'s agenda and cowardice.

    Well, back to earning my freedom ....
    American Public Education Made Me Ignorant and MSM Keeps Me Stupid.

  13. #328
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    Get even: Gun manufacturers refusing to do business with government agencies. Oh man.

    http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn...agencies-areas

  14. #329
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    Get even: Gun manufacturers refusing to do business with government agencies. Oh man.

    http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn...agencies-areas
    Saw that on Facebook. There was a big gun retailer in Texas that is refusing to sell to New York because of the asinine assault weapons ban.

  15. #330
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    Re: Renewed AWB ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimzinsocal View Post
    Get even: Gun manufacturers refusing to do business with government agencies. Oh man.

    http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn...agencies-areas
    That's awesome.

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