[Console] Xbox Durango

[Keven]

Specs for the "next" Xbox have leaked! Will it replace your gaming PC?

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/01/21/ru...go-specs-leak/

Here's what has been reported:

- AMD-build Jaguar-based APU with...
---- Eight-core 1.6GHz processor
---- GPU running at 800MHz
- 8GB of DDR3 RAM
- Hard drive required (most Xbox 360s shipped with hard drives, but they weren't required)
- Built-in NUI (Kinect crap)

The interesting thing is the fact that it would appear Microsoft is going with an APU/integrated CPU & GPU on the same die approach. Almost seems like they might be going with a low-cost Netflix/Hulu Roku-type media device that also plays Xbox games.

[Activate: AMD]

Remember when Xbox 360 came out it kinda looked like it was a top-end next-gen PC? (PowerPC architecture notwithstanding) This looks like a mid-range PC from 2012 at best.

[modru2004]

Specs for the "next" Xbox have leaked! Will it replace your gaming PC?

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/01/21/ru...go-specs-leak/

Here's what has been reported:

- AMD-build Jaguar-based APU with...
---- Eight-core 1.6GHz processor
---- GPU running at 800MHz
- 8GB of DDR3 RAM
- Hard drive required (most Xbox 360s shipped with hard drives, but they weren't required)
- Built-in NUI (Kinect crap)

The interesting thing is the fact that it would appear Microsoft is going with an APU/integrated CPU & GPU on the same die approach. Almost seems like they might be going with a low-cost Netflix/Hulu Roku-type media device that also plays Xbox games.

its my understanding originally that there doing that plus a dedicated radeon gpu for a hybrid crossfire setup. this may have changed though.

but i always knew that the next gen consoles weren't going to be the beasts everyone kept making them out to be, they would be to expensive for people to afford. thats the whole point of the console, affordable platform for the average person to game on.

edit: its also rumored to be paired with something similar to a 6670 which isn't even current midrange.

[Keven]

An 1.6GHz eight-core machine with APU graphics and 8GB of DDR3 RAM should be the next Android tablet from Samsung - not somebody's next gaming machine.

I don't care if people like console gaming (I have an Xbox and PS3 for those stupid console exclusives), but I do dislike the way that game design is hampered by consoles. I mean, in 6 years, PC games will be being ported from games designed for these specs. Something to think about.

[modru2004]

still better than being ported from xbox 360 hardware 6 years from now lol.

[Insanatrix]

You have to remember that with every xbox durango sporting the same hardware, they can optimize everything they write for that specific hardware set. The Xbox 360 specs kind of looked like crap compared to 1-2,000 systems back when it was released.

The problem with parallel processing with PC's is that systems vary by so much. A lot of parallel processing has to do with scheduling threads to run in a synchronized and ordered manner. While one system might be able to say process physics on one core, and do sound on another, do the render thread on another, and keep this working without any one individual thread getting ahead or behind the other, another system might completely fail at being able to do this task and it can have catastrophic results. You may get 80 fps and the smoothest gameplay you have ever experienced on one system, and on another system you will get 1 fps because the physics thread is lagging behind.

On a console everything is the same, you're programming for one machine and that's it. So you can't really compare a 1.6ghz 8 core in a console to say the same thing in a PC.

[Activate: AMD]

You have to remember that with every xbox durango sporting the same hardware, they can optimize everything they write for that specific hardware set. The Xbox 360 specs kind of looked like crap compared to 1-2,000 systems back when it was released.

The problem with parallel processing with PC's is that systems vary by so much. A lot of parallel processing has to do with scheduling threads to run in a synchronized and ordered manner. While one system might be able to say process physics on one core, and do sound on another, do the render thread on another, and keep this working without any one individual thread getting ahead or behind the other, another system might completely fail at being able to do this task and it can have catastrophic results. You may get 80 fps and the smoothest gameplay you have ever experienced on one system, and on another system you will get 1 fps because the physics thread is lagging behind.

On a console everything is the same, you're programming for one machine and that's it. So you can't really compare a 1.6ghz 8 core in a console to say the same thing in a PC.

I'm definitely aware that they are capable of programming much closer to the metal in a system like this than they are able to in the PC world. I have to disagree a bit with your assertion that the 360 didn't look high-end at the time. We are going back 8 years now so my memory might be a bit fuzzy, but at that time we were still firmly in the land of pixel/shader pipelines and dual core CPUs were brand new (A64 X2 having been released 6 months before). Xbox 360 had a unified shader architecture with on-die eDRAM and a triple-core processor. Compare to Durango: considering the fact that most games are now GPU-limited, the 8-core CPU doesn't impress me at all and the 6670-class GPU is just sad.

In the short term I'm sure they'll be able to do some nice things with it... 8 years from now its going to be an even bigger joke than the 360 is now.

[kbohip]

An 1.6GHz eight-core machine with APU graphics and 8GB of DDR3 RAM should be the next Android tablet from Samsung - not somebody's next gaming machine.

I don't care if people like console gaming (I have an Xbox and PS3 for those stupid console exclusives), but I do dislike the way that game design is hampered by consoles. I mean, in 6 years, PC games will be being ported from games designed for these specs. Something to think about.

From what I've been reading all over the internet for the last year or so, Android tablets already are everyone's next gaming machines. Remember when consoles were going to do pc's in for all gaming? Now it's chic to say that tablets and phones are doing the consoles in.

[Insanatrix]

I'm definitely aware that they are capable of programming much closer to the metal in a system like this than they are able to in the PC world. I have to disagree a bit with your assertion that the 360 didn't look high-end at the time. We are going back 8 years now so my memory might be a bit fuzzy, but at that time we were still firmly in the land of pixel/shader pipelines and dual core CPUs were brand new (A64 X2 having been released 6 months before). Xbox 360 had a unified shader architecture with on-die eDRAM and a triple-core processor. Compare to Durango: considering the fact that most games are now GPU-limited, the 8-core CPU doesn't impress me at all and the 6670-class GPU is just sad.

In the short term I'm sure they'll be able to do some nice things with it... 8 years from now its going to be an even bigger joke than the 360 is now.

Maybe, I'm not arguing that it won't. Just that trying to hold it to the same standards as a PC is wrong.

Shows how much I know about console hardware though. I had a 360 once for about 4-5 months then sold it to gamestop.

[Keven]

From what I've been reading all over the internet for the last year or so, Android tablets already are everyone's next gaming machines. Remember when consoles were going to do pc's in for all gaming? Now it's chic to say that tablets and phones are doing the consoles in.

That's why I think the next Xbox will be more of a Roku-type set-top box that also happens to play video games. Every six months when I turn on my Xbox 360 to play some exclusive game, I'm inundated with their stupid ads on the Dashboard from Microsoft.

"BUY MUSIC!"
"BUY MOVIES!"
"BUY TV SHOWS"
"RENT TV SHOWS!"
"RENT MOVIES!"
"WATCH ESPN3!"
"WATCH NETFLIX!"
"WATCH MLB NETWORK!"
"WATCH HULU!"

Video games are almost a secondary consideration for the platform at this point. This is something I know indie game developers have complained about in the past (Super Meat guys in particular) because Microsoft writes these guys checks to be exclusive to the Xbox 360, then they don't promote them on Xbox 360 dashboard. Instead of "Try Super Meat Boy!" they have "Rent Looper!" or whatever.

Hence my suspicion that the next Xbox will be a Roku-type deal that all plays Xbox games on the side. The fact that Microsoft seems to be going with a low-budget APU type thing confirms this, in my mind, if these do end up being the specs of the system.

You have to remember that with every xbox durango sporting the same hardware, they can optimize everything they write for that specific hardware set. The Xbox 360 specs kind of looked like crap compared to 1-2,000 systems back when it was released.

The problem with parallel processing with PC's is that systems vary by so much. A lot of parallel processing has to do with scheduling threads to run in a synchronized and ordered manner. While one system might be able to say process physics on one core, and do sound on another, do the render thread on another, and keep this working without any one individual thread getting ahead or behind the other, another system might completely fail at being able to do this task and it can have catastrophic results. You may get 80 fps and the smoothest gameplay you have ever experienced on one system, and on another system you will get 1 fps because the physics thread is lagging behind.

On a console everything is the same, you're programming for one machine and that's it. So you can't really compare a 1.6ghz 8 core in a console to say the same thing in a PC.

You're right, all games will be optimized for the hardware, but you're still limited by the hardware. Case in point, Far Cry 3. I'm sure Ubisoft spent months trying to optimize FC3 for the Xbox 360, but it still runs at 20 frames per second. You're still limited by a 8 year old GPU and 512MB of RAM.

[Insanatrix]

That's why I think the next Xbox will be more of a Roku-type set-top box that also happens to play video games. Every six months when I turn on my Xbox 360 to play some exclusive game, I'm inundated with their stupid ads on the Dashboard from Microsoft.

"BUY MUSIC!"
"BUY MOVIES!"
"BUY TV SHOWS"
"RENT TV SHOWS!"
"RENT MOVIES!"
"WATCH ESPN3!"
"WATCH NETFLIX!"
"WATCH MLB NETWORK!"
"WATCH HULU!"

Video games are almost a secondary consideration for the platform at this point. This is something I know indie game developers have complained about in the past (Super Meat guys in particular) because Microsoft writes these guys checks to be exclusive to the Xbox 360, then they don't promote them on Xbox 360 dashboard. Instead of "Try Super Meat Boy!" they have "Rent Looper!" or whatever.

Hence my suspicion that the next Xbox will be a Roku-type deal that all plays Xbox games on the side. The fact that Microsoft seems to be going with a low-budget APU type thing confirms this, in my mind, if these do end up being the specs of the system.



You're right, all games will be optimized for the hardware, but you're still limited by the hardware. Case in point, Far Cry 3. I'm sure Ubisoft spent months trying to optimize FC3 for the Xbox 360, but it still runs at 20 frames per second. You're still limited by a 8 year old GPU and 512MB of RAM.

Try running FC3 on an 8 year old PC and getting 20 fps, Just saying. Maybe they need to future proof them to the point they last 100 years, then we wouldn't complain right? or maybe make them upgradeable, like a PC, except with specific upgrades. Of course that would make it cost a heck of a lot more than just building a PC probably.

[Keven]

Try running FC3 on an 8 year old PC and getting 20 fps, Just saying. Maybe they need to future proof them to the point they last 100 years, then we wouldn't complain right? or maybe make them upgradeable, like a PC, except with specific upgrades. Of course that would make it cost a heck of a lot more than just building a PC probably.

So a crappy experience is okay because an 8 year old Xbox is doing something an 8 year old PC couldn't? Far Cry 3 is still a game they are charging $60 for on hardware that clearly can't handle it.

[Activate: AMD]

So a crappy experience is okay because an 8 year old Xbox is doing something an 8 year old PC couldn't? Far Cry 3 is still a game they are charging $60 for on hardware that clearly can't handle it.

agreed. There is, at the very least, an implicit expectation of a minimum to the quality of the experience on a console. We've clearly gone so far past the current hardware that its no longer possible for the 360 to deliver that bare-minimum.

Try running FC3 on an 8 year old PC and getting 20 fps, Just saying. Maybe they need to future proof them to the point they last 100 years, then we wouldn't complain right? or maybe make them upgradeable, like a PC, except with specific upgrades. Of course that would make it cost a heck of a lot more than just building a PC probably.

I'm don't know what your point is. If the devs took that 8 year-old PC and coded that close to the metal, they could probably get FC3 to run at 20FPS too. At the risk of speaking for others, we know that they can do more with the hardware due to standardization. That doesn't change the fact that this tech looks decidedly low-rent compared to what the now-ancient 360 looked like at the time. Its simple logic that higher-end hardware will have greater longevity than something from the low-mid range. I'm not even asking for more future-proofing than the Xbox 360 had... how about just the same level? This has way less if it turns out to be true

[Insanatrix]

So a crappy experience is okay because an 8 year old Xbox is doing something an 8 year old PC couldn't? Far Cry 3 is still a game they are charging $60 for on hardware that clearly can't handle it.

I'm not defending that position at all. I'm talking about the specs of the xbox 360 and the specs of this next gen xbox and how they relate to PC specs. I'm not saying anything is ok.

Personally though, I don't care about console specs really since I never buy them. You wanna get all hyped up over some released specs, be my guest.

You're angry FC3 doesn't run good on an xbox? Ok, Isn't that the fault of Ubisoft more than it is the Xbox? Especially since they know what hardware it has and what it can do. They tried to push it too hard and it shows. So yeah, lets get all angry about the new specs of a console before it's even out and we can see what it does, or if those specs are even true. And lets get mad that they don't put $2000 worth of hardware in a box that sells for like $499.

By all means though, have at it if it floats your boat kids.

[Activate: AMD]

I'm not defending that position at all. I'm talking about the specs of the xbox 360 and the specs of this next gen xbox and how they relate to PC specs. I'm not saying anything is ok.

Personally though, I don't care about console specs really since I never buy them. You wanna get all hyped up over some released specs, be my guest.

You're angry FC3 doesn't run good on an xbox? Ok, Isn't that the fault of Ubisoft more than it is the Xbox? Especially since they know what hardware it has and what it can do. They tried to push it too hard and it shows. So yeah, lets get all angry about the new specs of a console before it's even out and we can see what it does, or if those specs are even true. And lets get mad that they don't put $2000 worth of hardware in a box that sells for like $499.

By all means though, have at it if it floats your boat kids.

Then why are you posting in this thread? This is the internet.. its practically built on unfounded righteous indignation. If you don't have any opinions about consoles, or have so much tunnel vision that you don't care about them because all you play are PC games, then why get worked up about people getting worked up? We get it.. these are rumors, but this is also a message board. Talk is cheap and I don't see why you need to come in and repeatedly thread-crap.

You're angry FC3 doesn't run good on an xbox? Ok, Isn't that the fault of Ubisoft more than it is the Xbox? Especially since they know what hardware it has and what it can do. They tried to push it too hard and it shows.

Not mad about that at all.. just sad that we'll run probably run into this situation sooner rather than later if these leaked specs are real, because it means bad things for the graphical and technical development of future PC games.