[Console] PlayStation 4

[Keven]

I guess we need a thread about the next PlayStation since we already have one about the next Xbox and since it looks like this one might be announced first.

Rumored specs:
- AMD Jaguar-based 1.8GHz eight-core CPU (yes, same as Xbox)
- AMD graphics based on Pitcairn core running at 850MHz and 20 GCN units. (supposed to be similar to 7970M)
- 4GB GDDR5 (so, if these are to be believed, the Xbox 360 will have more RAM but PS4 will have faster RAM)
- Some kind of touchscreen on the controller (but not as big as Wii U) and a rear-touch panel like the back of the controller.

[Big B-man]

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think the PS2/PS3 controller has been pretty solid if you ask me. I don't know if adding a touch screen on the controller is that great. It's going to have to be done right, as in that it can't have any lag in the response. Secondly, how much extra is this going to make one of those controller? I thought the Wii U's new controller was supposed to command $150-200. The 360/PS3 controller run $50 a pop right now, so unless Sony can justify it really improving something, I really don't care for a touch screen on the controller. Not everything needs a screen. It's a controller, not a handheld.

[Insanatrix]

Specs don't seem terrible, just like the Durango I don't see anything terribly wrong with them. I can see a few scenario's where the touch screen might come in handy, but really it's probably more for fluff than anything. I'm sure it will drive the cost up to at least $100. If the system comes with one, with online gaming on console's taking a much higher priority to having your friends over and doing split screen, Do they really make all that much on extra stock controller sales?

As for the memory, Is it going to operate with 64bit addressing? 4gb is plenty for 32bit, and even with 64bit it's rare I see a 64bit program use more than 3gb, the only programs exceeding that have been DAW's with like 20 VST's running and tons of samples. With a low overhead, I'm not seeing a big issue or anything with it having 4gb.

From those spec's, it's not bleeding edge or anything, but does it really need to be in order to be a successful nex-gen console?

[Keven]

Specs don't seem terrible, just like the Durango I don't see anything terribly wrong with them. I can see a few scenario's where the touch screen might come in handy, but really it's probably more for fluff than anything. I'm sure it will drive the cost up to at least $100. If the system comes with one, with online gaming on console's taking a much higher priority to having your friends over and doing split screen, Do they really make all that much on extra stock controller sales?

As for the memory, Is it going to operate with 64bit addressing? 4gb is plenty for 32bit, and even with 64bit it's rare I see a 64bit program use more than 3gb, the only programs exceeding that have been DAW's with like 20 VST's running and tons of samples. With a low overhead, I'm not seeing a big issue or anything with it having 4gb.

From those spec's, it's not bleeding edge or anything, but does it really need to be in order to be a successful nex-gen console?

I imagine it would have to be 64-bit just to make porting between the Xbox and PlayStation easier. Developers this generation have had a hell of a time porting between PC/Xbox 360 and the PS3. I doubt Sony would want to add another layer between that, especially if the gap looks like it might be closer than ever with both Durango and Orbis running the same AMD processor.

[3dfxrain]

If they can all do 1080p consistently (with a little upscaling) across all games it's better than the PS3. I think the 360 did better slightly with upscaling. Less blurry when upscaling however lower texture depth. I prefer slightly lower texture depth than blurring. That's just what I found with the 360 and PS3 things. On PC, well, there is very little blurring or lack of texture depth with recent/faster hardware which was better than more blurring or lower texture depth.

[Keven]

Japanese newspaper Nikkei reporting that the PlayStation 4 will be more of a "entertainment center" than a dedicated gaming machine. Although it's just a rumor, if true, it would confirm my thesis that the next PlayStation/Xbox will be more of Roku-type Netflix/Hulu boxes that also happen to play video games.

[Insanatrix]

Japanese newspaper Nikkei reporting that the PlayStation 4 will be more of a "entertainment center" than a dedicated gaming machine. Although it's just a rumor, if true, it would confirm my thesis that the next PlayStation/Xbox will be more of Roku-type Netflix/Hulu boxes that also happen to play video games.

I take it with a grain of salt. They were always becoming "Entertainment Center's" over time anyways. What constitutes a dedicated gaming machine though? Is a PC a dedicated gaming machine then? Isn't a PC just an entertainment center, if that's what you use it for?

I just can't see them building some dedicated gaming console based on what I'm fathoming would be your definition of a dedicated gaming console, turning around and selling it for $400-500. It's just not reasonable. You have to remember that they are marketing these things to families and kids, teenagers with part time jobs etc... If they make it some expensive powerhouse they're not gonna sell to many at the price point they would probably have to set.

People who want i7's, build computers. It's that simple. People who want something to relax and play games with, watch movies, surf the internet on their TV, store picture's and home movies and what not, they always had to have multiple devices to do it or build a HTPC. This feels like it is simply bridging the gap into what people and the market wants.

IF I was to buy a console, that would be what I would be looking for. Something that could play some games, that would function as a HTPC pretty much, that wasn't very expensive. What the majority would also be looking for is something that is uncomplicated that they can control and use and setup with ease. Maybe this will signify a return of PC gaming dominance? I think there will always be a demand for cutting edge games, I don't see people being satisfied with Hello Kitty Online on their Durango or Orbis.

[Keven]

I take it with a grain of salt. They were always becoming "Entertainment Center's" over time anyways. What constitutes a dedicated gaming machine though? Is a PC a dedicated gaming machine then? Isn't a PC just an entertainment center, if that's what you use it for?

I just can't see them building some dedicated gaming console based on what I'm fathoming would be your definition of a dedicated gaming console, turning around and selling it for $400-500. It's just not reasonable. You have to remember that they are marketing these things to families and kids, teenagers with part time jobs etc... If they make it some expensive powerhouse they're not gonna sell to many at the price point they would probably have to set.

People who want i7's, build computers. It's that simple. People who want something to relax and play games with, watch movies, surf the internet on their TV, store picture's and home movies and what not, they always had to have multiple devices to do it or build a HTPC. This feels like it is simply bridging the gap into what people and the market wants.

IF I was to buy a console, that would be what I would be looking for. Something that could play some games, that would function as a HTPC pretty much, that wasn't very expensive. What the majority would also be looking for is something that is uncomplicated that they can control and use and setup with ease. Maybe this will signify a return of PC gaming dominance? I think there will always be a demand for cutting edge games, I don't see people being satisfied with Hello Kitty Online on their Durango or Orbis.

I have nothing wrong with these digital media type boxes. I have a Western Digital TV Pro thingie sitting under my TV right now. The console community needs to temper their expectations though. The era where the first Xbox was the OMG SUPER GRAPHICS JUGGERNAUT or the PS3 was the OMG SUPER CELL PROCESSORS BEST CONSOLE EVER JUGGERNAUT are over. And before you say it, yes, games will be okay at first, because developers will be programming for a specific set hardware configuration. But still, in 4-5 years, games on PC will suffer like they do now because these consoles will be more popular than PC, and we'll have to live with crippled games from the console world.

[3dfxrain]

If I had my way i'd upgrade the hardware slightly about performance with calculations every 3 years on console, use the same fundamental tech, so the distance is not so great between PC and console and they don't drag each other down as much.

[Activate: AMD]

I have nothing wrong with these digital media type boxes. I have a Western Digital TV Pro thingie sitting under my TV right now. The console community needs to temper their expectations though. The era where the first Xbox was the OMG SUPER GRAPHICS JUGGERNAUT or the PS3 was the OMG SUPER CELL PROCESSORS BEST CONSOLE EVER JUGGERNAUT are over. And before you say it, yes, games will be okay at first, because developers will be programming for a specific set hardware configuration. But still, in 4-5 years, games on PC will suffer like they do now because these consoles will be more popular than PC, and we'll have to live with crippled games from the console world.

It sounds like your opinion is that these devices will be compromised gaming machines by virtue of their lack of focus. Or that the desire to appeal to broader markets will detract from their gaming capabilities for multiple reasons (price, power consumption, etc). I would agree with that sentiment. I said it before in the durango thread, and I'll say it again: I don't think these consoles are forward looking enough from a hardware perspective

[Keven]

It sounds like your opinion is that these devices will be compromised gaming machines by virtue of their lack of focus. Or that the desire to appeal to broader markets will detract from their gaming capabilities for multiple reasons (price, power consumption, etc). I would agree with that sentiment. I said it before in the durango thread, and I'll say it again: I don't think these consoles are forward looking enough from a hardware perspective

Yeah, I guess that's right. If they really are going to market these things as Netflix boxes first and gaming machine second, then you're appealing to a more price sensitive general market and you don't need as fast hardware.

[Insanatrix]

I still think though that if that is the route they take, it will put more of a focus on PC's for gaming again.

I'm also curious what you're preferred specs for both of these console's would be. Both you, Keven and O-Dog. Both of you seem to have issue's with them and I'm honestly curious what you were expecting I guess.

[Keven]

I still think though that if that is the route they take, it will put more of a focus on PC's for gaming again.

I'm also curious what you're preferred specs for both of these console's would be. Both you, Keven and O-Dog. Both of you seem to have issue's with them and I'm honestly curious what you were expecting I guess.

Look, I don't care if people play console games and I don't expect them to have i7 processors and GeForce 690s.

The consoles are popular. The most copies of multiplatform games are sold on consoles. Games will be developed for the consoles first.

This means that in five years, when these consoles are old and aged, games will be designed primarily for old hardware. Yes, it's more of a problem with the industry as a whole than the consoles themselves, but somebody has to take the blame, and I'm blaming Microsoft and Sony for their modest approach.

A few notable exceptions aside, 2007-2011 was mostly the era of crappy DirectX 9 Unreal Engine 3 Xbox 360 ports for the PC. Thankfully, in recent years, we've really gotten some excellent PC ports, including games like Skyrim, Sleeping Dogs, Just Cause 2 where the developer has offered high-res textures or Dx11 support*. And you have games like Witcher 2 and Metro 2033 which were developed as PC first. PC gaming is pretty good right now, and these middling console specs make me afraid we'll go back to the dark times where we're stuck with crap games sooner, rather than later.

* - Speaking of that, the asshole project director for Dead Space 3 said that the PC version was virtually identical to the console versions, aside from running at higher resolutions or a faster framerate if you have a better computer. Maybe I'm spoiled by the developers offering extra bells and whistles for the PC version, but why did he have to come out and say that? To appease the whiny ass console kiddies? •••• him and •••• Dead Space 3, which I haven't played yet but the DLC crap makes me mad. This is totally off topic, which is why I made it a footnote.

[Insanatrix]

Look, I don't care if people play console games and I don't expect them to have i7 processors and GeForce 690s.

The consoles are popular. The most copies of multiplatform games are sold on consoles. Games will be developed for the consoles first.

This means that in five years, when these consoles are old and aged, games will be designed primarily for old hardware. Yes, it's more of a problem with the industry as a whole than the consoles themselves, but somebody has to take the blame, and I'm blaming Microsoft and Sony for their modest approach.

A few notable exceptions aside, 2007-2011 was mostly the era of crappy DirectX 9 Unreal Engine 3 Xbox 360 ports for the PC. Thankfully, in recent years, we've really gotten some excellent PC ports, including games like Skyrim, Sleeping Dogs, Just Cause 2 where the developer has offered high-res textures or Dx11 support*. And you have games like Witcher 2 and Metro 2033 which were developed as PC first. PC gaming is pretty good right now, and these middling console specs make me afraid we'll go back to the dark times where we're stuck with crap games sooner, rather than later.

* - Speaking of that, the asshole project director for Dead Space 3 said that the PC version was virtually identical to the console versions, aside from running at higher resolutions or a faster framerate if you have a better computer. Maybe I'm spoiled by the developers offering extra bells and whistles for the PC version, but why did he have to come out and say that? To appease the whiny ass console kiddies? •••• him and •••• Dead Space 3, which I haven't played yet but the DLC crap makes me mad. This is totally off topic, which is why I made it a footnote.

You don't care that people play console games, then you call the whiny ass console kiddies. Yep, Now I know what I'm dealing with, Thank you.

You acknowledge it's a problem with the industry, yet you blame Sony and Microsoft because they have a modest approach. Again this has to do with technical specs which I think time and time again we have argued that it has to do with price to performance, in which case I think both have done reasonably well. How much can you future proof something for a price point of $500 or less?

I think you're expectations are too much. You're views are skewed and biased, and your too stubborn and thick headed to see it or admit it. You make yourself look like a fool contradicting yourself by stating that you don't expect them to have i7's and 690's, yet you're in a rage that they take a modest approach by not having what, i7's and 690's in there? You blame the console makers yet you acknowledge it's a industry problem boiling down to sales that drive what platform's get priority. The developer of Dead Space 3 is an asshole, because he makes a statement that the platforms are equal? Seriously, bias much?

I thought these were discussion boards, you know where people discuss opinions in a friendly manner and offer counter-points to other viewpoints. Apparently I missed the memo where these are now Keven's Rageboards. If someone counter's Keven's viewpoint they are met with contradicting rage. You're pretty much nothing more than an internet troll, and I'm done with you.

[3dfxrain]

This is the Internet it's not meant to be used negatively and excessively at the same time. He's just getting some rage out, I already know he's disappointed though it doesn't bother me, there's problems to solve behind it, something constructive.