[Console] PlayStation 4

[Keven]

Oh god, save your self-righteous act for somebody who cares.

You don't care that people play console games, then you call the whiny ass console kiddies. Yep, Now I know what I'm dealing with, Thank you.

I do see a steady increase on multiple gaming forums of console gamers saying "I'm sick of hearing about how good the PC is!!!!!" What would you call that?

You acknowledge it's a problem with the industry, yet you blame Sony and Microsoft because they have a modest approach. Again this has to do with technical specs which I think time and time again we have argued that it has to do with price to performance, in which case I think both have done reasonably well. How much can you future proof something for a price point of $500 or less?

I don't even know what you're arguing here. It's cheap hardware, yes. They can sell them for $500 later this year. And in five years, PC gamers will be paying for it in substandard games.

You're views are skewed and biased, and your too stubborn and thick headed to see it or admit it. You make yourself look like a fool contradicting yourself by stating that you don't expect them to have i7's and 690's, yet you're in a rage that they take a modest approach by not having what, i7's and 690's in there?

I'm stubborn and thick headed? You're the flag carrier of the Console Defense Brigade here. This is a forum for people who build their own PCs. This is a subsection for PC gaming. You think we're going to be giddy over the new consoles here? It's a very safe assumption that everybody here is going to be apathetic-to-hostile to console gaming here. So why do you feel compelled to come here and tell us how great console gaming is?

You blame the console makers yet you acknowledge it's a industry problem boiling down to sales that drive what platform's get priority.

Who should I blame? Should I blame developers?

The developer of Dead Space 3 is an asshole, because he makes a statement that the platforms are equal? Seriously, bias much?

Oh, I guess I can't blame the developers.

Secondly, the platforms aren't equal. The Xbox 360 has a disc capacity of 8GB. My computer blows away both consoles. They aren't created equal. So, I don't apologize for loving it when developers include extras for PC games like high-res textures and Dx11 support.

I thought these were discussion boards, you know where people discuss opinions in a friendly manner and offer counter-points to other viewpoints. Apparently I missed the memo where these are now Keven's Rageboards. If someone counter's Keven's viewpoint they are met with contradicting rage.

You're making your points, and I'm responding. I don't know where you think I'm raging. I like how in the past 12 months, the internet has adapted this idea that every time anybody shows any resistance to anything on the internet, they're "RAGING" about it. Sorry, we can't all be cool guys who are too cool to care about anything or get too excited. If you think I'm over here pounding the desk and getting flush in the face because of the consoles, you're wrong. It's something to discuss. If I wasn't here discussing this, I'd be somewhere else discussing something else. I don't have an active fatwa out against the new consoles.

You're pretty much nothing more than an internet troll, and I'm done with you.

Yeah, somebody on a PC hardware forum defending PC gaming against the consoles is a troll. Mmmkay.

To tell you the truth, sometimes I do troll people. People here know it. People on TLR know it. Sometimes I say things to get people mad. I've gotten into a few nasty flame wars and I've gotten stern PMs from the mods and admins here more than once.

But this wasn't one of them. I was honestly (and I thought calmly) explaining why I don't like the hardware in the new consoles. If that's "RAGGGING TROLLLL" to you, then your skin is too thin to be on the internet.

[3dfxrain]

I understand to some extent. Don't worry about it. Sometimes it takes a bit of argument to fix something without taking it the wrong way.

[Lenny]

Ok guys time to take the tone of this discussion down a few notches. Agree to disagree if you have to but I don't want the arguing to go any further.

[Insanatrix]

The funny thing is that with each new post, you just prove all the points I made that much more. I'm far from defending console's, for one I don't even own one and haven't owned one for many years. I think the last one I owned was a Sega Dreamcast. I'm defending the right to post a valid opinion and not have some assclown sit and demean and try to beat his opinion into everyone by repeating it in ever increasing, disrespectful and rude ways. Your lack of respect and integrity can be seen with the first 4 words of every post you make.

What makes me think you're raging is that you start a post stating the specs suck, I say lets wait and see they aren't that bad, you counter with ZOMG THEY REALLY REALLY SUCK HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT! Blasphemy!!!!!! You continue on with more about how it's the end of days for games, all while not knowing shit about the market, demand or supply and cost. You think every console should have i7's and be future proofed for 6 years, just so you can enjoy what you want, reality and everyone else be damned. In other words, it's all about you, •••• everyone else pretty much. You have never addressed any of my points with any type of counter point, except to acknowledge it's validity and dismiss it because you don't believe it's how reality works or how it should work. You never base your opinion on anything tangible, just on more of your opinions.

Yeah you should blame developers, you know the people who develop games. It's their choice on whether to develop specifically for the PC and make use of it's feature's. The fact that they don't is because money is easier on console's, bottom line. Is that because console's suck and Microsoft and Sony are to blame, or is it because the bottom line is money and that's what developers are after?

You call the developer of Dead Space 3 an asshole because he makes a statement that they design the games equally across all platforms. You the say it's Microsoft and Sony's fault because their hardware isn't up to current standards because it was released 6 years ago and they should have future proofed it much more than they did. I'm actually thinking you don't know who to blame, you're just angry, hence raging.

Why in the bloody hell are you discussing console's on a PC gaming forum if you know the outcome already? Why not go discuss it on a console forum? Might it be because no one wants to hear your opinions? Fancy that

Like I said, all you want to do is bitch. I guess in this case, you are what you do best.

[Insanatrix]

Ok guys time to take the tone of this discussion down a few notches. Agree to disagree if you have to but I don't want the arguing to go any further.

I'm done.

[Keven]

The funny thing is that with each new post, you just prove all the points I made that much more. I'm far from defending console's, for one I don't even own one and haven't owned one for many years. I think the last one I owned was a Sega Dreamcast. I'm defending the right to post a valid opinion and not have some assclown sit and demean and try to beat his opinion into everyone by repeating it in ever increasing, disrespectful and rude ways. Your lack of respect and integrity can be seen with the first 4 words of every post you make.

lol, what are you even talking about? Where was I rude or disrespectful? You're a baby. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. Some people are going to disagree to what you say on the internet, son. If you can't handle contrary opinions, then you better call up the ISP and cancel the internet.

What makes me think you're raging is that you start a post stating the specs suck, I say lets wait and see they aren't that bad, you counter with ZOMG THEY REALLY REALLY SUCK HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT! Blasphemy!!!!!!

Pretty sure I never said that.

You continue on with more about how it's the end of days for games, all while not knowing shit about the market, demand or supply and cost.

Yeah, I don't know shit about economics. Okay, Poci.

You think every console should have i7's and be future proofed for 6 years, just so you can enjoy what you want, reality and everyone else be damned.

Never said that, either.

In other words, it's all about you, •••• everyone else pretty much. You have never addressed any of my points with any type of counter point, except to acknowledge it's validity and dismiss it because you don't believe it's how reality works or how it should work. You never base your opinion on anything tangible, just on more of your opinions.

Do you even read my posts?

Yeah you should blame developers, you know the people who develop games. It's their choice on whether to develop specifically for the PC and make use of it's feature's. The fact that they don't is because money is easier on console's, bottom line.

I said all that before you did.

Is that because console's suck and Microsoft and Sony are to blame, or is it because the bottom line is money and that's what developers are after?

Everybody is after money. Microsoft and Sony are going to ship the new consoles for a loss at launch. They're also going to emphasis their new revenue streams (movies, tv shows, music, value-added services). A Netflix-playing machine doesn't need the hardware that a dedicated gaming machine does. Hence, these modest specs in the Durango and Orbis comes all back around to money.

You call the developer of Dead Space 3 an asshole because he makes a statement that they design the games equally across all platforms.

And why is that a good thing? Mass Effect 2 had serious design changes because of the 8GB disc limit on the Xbox 360. Other games have had too. Why is it a good thing that games are designed equally for modern gaming PCs, a 6 year old gaming PC with a BluRay Drive and a 7 year old gaming PC with a DVD drive? Why are PC gamers asked to give up quality in the name of parity?

You the say it's Microsoft and Sony's fault because their hardware isn't up to current standards because it was released 6 years ago and they should have future proofed it much more than they did. I'm actually thinking you don't know who to blame, you're just angry, hence raging.

I blame you, for being a oversensitive douche.

Why in the bloody hell are you discussing console's on a PC gaming forum if you know the outcome already? Why not go discuss it on a console forum? Might it be because no one wants to hear your opinions? Fancy that

Because, unlike you, I own all the consoles to play console exclusives, so I'm interested very much in what kind of hardware they'll have.

I'm done, just tired of his disrespectful attitude towards active discussion rather than patronizing backslapping.

Again, have you ever used a computer before? You posted something. I disagreed. We went back and forth. Our conversation was pretty mild as far as internet discussions go. I'd love to see you hold your own on places like reddit or NeoGAF or even our own TLR if the slightest disagreement is "disrespectful attitude".

[Lenny]

I realize posts from both of you were probably in progress as I posted my request but that's it. If you both can't express your opinions without the arguing and insults then the discussion is over.

[Keven]

For the sake of posterity, I want our orginial exchange republished here.

Specs for the "next" Xbox have leaked! Will it replace your gaming PC?

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/01/21/ru...go-specs-leak/

Here's what has been reported:

- AMD-build Jaguar-based APU with...
---- Eight-core 1.6GHz processor
---- GPU running at 800MHz
- 8GB of DDR3 RAM
- Hard drive required (most Xbox 360s shipped with hard drives, but they weren't required)
- Built-in NUI (Kinect crap)

The interesting thing is the fact that it would appear Microsoft is going with an APU/integrated CPU & GPU on the same die approach. Almost seems like they might be going with a low-cost Netflix/Hulu Roku-type media device that also plays Xbox games.

You have to remember that with every xbox durango sporting the same hardware, they can optimize everything they write for that specific hardware set. The Xbox 360 specs kind of looked like crap compared to 1-2,000 systems back when it was released.

The problem with parallel processing with PC's is that systems vary by so much. A lot of parallel processing has to do with scheduling threads to run in a synchronized and ordered manner. While one system might be able to say process physics on one core, and do sound on another, do the render thread on another, and keep this working without any one individual thread getting ahead or behind the other, another system might completely fail at being able to do this task and it can have catastrophic results. You may get 80 fps and the smoothest gameplay you have ever experienced on one system, and on another system you will get 1 fps because the physics thread is lagging behind.

On a console everything is the same, you're programming for one machine and that's it. So you can't really compare a 1.6ghz 8 core in a console to say the same thing in a PC.

You're right, all games will be optimized for the hardware, but you're still limited by the hardware. Case in point, Far Cry 3. I'm sure Ubisoft spent months trying to optimize FC3 for the Xbox 360, but it still runs at 20 frames per second. You're still limited by a 8 year old GPU and 512MB of RAM.

I'm not defending that position at all. I'm talking about the specs of the xbox 360 and the specs of this next gen xbox and how they relate to PC specs. I'm not saying anything is ok.

Personally though, I don't care about console specs really since I never buy them. You wanna get all hyped up over some released specs, be my guest.

You're angry FC3 doesn't run good on an xbox? Ok, Isn't that the fault of Ubisoft more than it is the Xbox? Especially since they know what hardware it has and what it can do. They tried to push it too hard and it shows. So yeah, lets get all angry about the new specs of a console before it's even out and we can see what it does, or if those specs are even true. And lets get mad that they don't put $2000 worth of hardware in a box that sells for like $499.

By all means though, have at it if it floats your boat kids.

If the consoles can do anything if the software is optimized, then why not forgo coming out with a new machine? Keep the Xbox 360 out there and just optimize better.

Yes, you're right. Console developers can do a lot because they're developing for a uniform set of hardware. But, at the end of the day, they're still playing within the limits of the hardware. If software engineers could wave a magic wand and make any software run perfectly on any hardware, then we'd all still be using Commodore 64s.

I have a $99 Western Digital box on my TV that lets me watch Netflix on my big screen. It has a "games" like solitaire or something. I don't know what specs it has, but it can't have more than a 500MHz processor. There aren't enough programmers in the world to make any game run good on that little box.

I didn't say they could do anything, just that they can do more. I'm done with this, you basically wanna bitch for the sake of bitching. Have fun.

If anybody thinks my replies were outrageous, disrespect, or out of line, I'll apologize. Personally, I've seen much more fierce arguments here over graphics cards, CPUs, versions of Windows, whatever. Aside from my snide comment about the Commodore 64, I don't understand where I was out of line.

That's all I have to say on the issue, out of respect for Lenny's requests.

[modru2004]

only thing i see is that somehow he took offense to your statement of "whiny console kiddies". thats when it kinda took a turn. that being said i think that may have been a misunderstanding and he read that as you calling all console gamers whiny kids. but i could be wrong...............

[3dfxrain]

I just looked at the date it's the 14th, so 6 more days till they talk about it. I'm sure i'll find out about it then.

[Keven]

Getting unveiled today, so get ready!

Just announced, it will be called PlayStation 4.

[Keven]

Going with a x86 processor and "PC GPU".

Mark Cerny, Sony VP, says that it will be "like a gaming PC but supercharged".

Confirmed 8GB of RAM.

Controller will look the same as old PlayStation controller but with new triggers and a touchscreen.

Showing Unreal Engine 4 in "real time" running on "PlayStation 4 prototype hardware". Looks good, but also looks prerendered and what Epic showed of Unreal Engine 4 last year at E3.

RAM will be GDDR5 memory. Woweee!

They keep saying the GPU will be a "PC GPU". I like it. It's a conceit that PC gaming is the best!

Will have a "secondary chip" (CPU?) that will handle "background operations" and "downloads" and will "even work when the console is off".

Players will be able to use their Vita as a screen/controller for the PS4 just like the Wii U controller. Kinda cool!

[3dfxrain]

This is Zig, we continue moving for great justice. Watched the live stream I approve of it so far.

[Keven]

John Carmack approves of new PlayStation 4.

[3dfxrain]

Yeah lock in that x86-64 and the new/different controller. I don't want Cell and the old controller. Time for something different, new.